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Over the years one thing that became evident to me, that it is best on some=
parts to have an expert (someone who does these repairs everyday) repair t=
he unit for you. I have had many Girling boosters rebuilt by the vendor I m=
entioned previously, Power Brake Exchange, and never had an issue with thei=
r work. Granted it has been a long while since the last one and I did not c=
heck with them before posting this.=20
Perry
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Earl Kagna
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:59 PM
To: Michael Salter; Bob Spidell
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brakes
Fred / Bob:
=C2=A0
I have to agree with Michael on this =E2=80=93 rebuilding the Girling servo=
is tricky at best.=C2=A0 Plus, there is always the possibility that the bo=
re in the servo body has enough damage that it would need to be repaired =
=E2=80=93 sleeved =E2=80=93 which is a complicated job as the bore is stepp=
ed.=C2=A0 And you don=E2=80=99t really know it=E2=80=99s needed until it is=
off the car and apart.
=C2=A0
Another diagnostic measure: pull the rear spark plugs - if there is brake f=
luid being drawn in, they will very white in appearance, depending on the b=
rake fluid (glycol or silicone).
=C2=A0
Quite a few us here on the west coast in BC have installed the PBR VH44 ser=
vo with great success.=C2=A0 It is a more modern design =E2=80=93 a diaphra=
gm servo, rather than the vacuum piston.=C2=A0 Plus it has a very convenien=
t bleed screw of it=E2=80=99s own =E2=80=93 particularly helpful if DOT 5 s=
ilicone brake fluid is being used.=C2=A0 Plus, it doesn=E2=80=99t look too =
out of place on the Healey, unless you paint it pink!=20
=C2=A0
I=E2=80=99m sure that a search of the usual Healey parts suppliers will tel=
l you if they are available in North America.=C2=A0 We have dealt with Hydr=
oboost in Australia =E2=80=93 last time we ordered, they supplied fitting k=
its as well =E2=80=93 a couple of pre-bent brake pipes, a correct vacuum ho=
se (it needs to be about 4 inches longer than the original), and a pair of =
Kilmartin mounting brackets (they are very close neighbours).
=C2=A0
One caution: the PBR VH44 is made in several boost ratios, so pay attention=
to get the correct version for the Healey.=C2=A0 Check their web-site =E2=
=80=93 all kinds of interesting information on servos.
=C2=A0
Hope this helps.
=C2=A0
Earl Kagna
Victoria, B.C.
BJ8, BT7 tri-carb
=C2=A0
From: Michael Salter=20
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:35 AM
To: Bob Spidell=20
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net=20
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brakes
=C2=A0
I would agree with Bob that the most likely problem is the servo.=20
You can check this fairly easily by loosening off the lower 10/32 nuts and =
screws on the servo chest and gently prying it open a little.=20
If the servo is leaking fluid will run out.
IMHO Bob's=C2=A0 50/50 success rate for rebuilds is a little optimistic =F0=
=9F=99=84=F0=9F=99=84.
Unless you are fairly skilled you are unlikely to succeed on your first few=
attempts.
Commercially I gave up rebuilding them many years ago because of the dismal=
success rate and started installing PBR VH44 servos, possibly still availa=
ble from Healey Surgeons, which require different mount brackets and fluid =
lines. We never had a VH44 come-back.
M
=C2=A0
On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 12:19 p.m. Bob Spidell, <bspidell@comcast.net> wrot=
e:
If a significant amount of brake fluid is leaking into the servo you=20
will get white smoke out of the tailpipes (under most running=20
conditions). This is because the engine will suck fluid into the intake=20
manifold through the vacuum hose. The most likely cause of this is the=20
'gland' seal; which seals the vacuum piston--the large canister on the=20
servo--from the servo's hydraulics (it has two pistons; one is activated=20
by pedal pressure to gate air at ambient pressure into the canister to=20
assist a second 'master' cylinder, which powers the slave cyls).
You can rebuild the servo yourself; I've done it once successfully,=20
others report 50-50 success. I've not heard overwhelming stories of=20
success with aftermarket (Lockheed, or an Australian equivalent)=20
replacements, but some like them. They aren't apparently, a 'drop in'=20
replacement without some fiddling, and hearsay says they're not as=20
effective as the Girling (putting my Nomex suit on). The hydraulic=20
section of the servos is not much different from ordinary brake=20
cylinders. The shop manual has an excellent explanation of the theory=20
and workings of the servos; it took me several reads and some cogitating=20
to grok it all, but they are pretty ingenious.
If you're not getting any white smoke, your guess is as good as mine; I=20
have the same problem--although I haven't pulled the drums to check the=20
rear slave cylinders (fronts are not leaking)--but since I had bled them=20
before the problem occurred I'm thinking I screwed the pooch somehow on=20
the bleed.
Bob
On 6/12/2020 8:46 AM, Fred Wescoe wrote:
> I am having issues with the brakes on my 66 BJ8.=C2=A0 I am new to this B=
J8=20
> with boosted brakes, but I have owned a BJ7 for many years.=C2=A0 I don't=
=20
> find any clues in the shop manual or in Norm Nock's tech talk manual.
>
> When I press the brake pedal, it slowly goes to the floor. I am losing=20
> hydraulic fluid in the reservoir but there are no apparent leaks that=20
> I can see.=C2=A0 There are no fluid spots on the garage floor at each whe=
el=20
> and no evidence of brake fluid on the wire wheels which would indicate=20
> a leak.=C2=A0 I have pulled each wheel and I do not see brake fluid anywh=
ere.
>
> Is it possible that the fluid is leaking into the brake booster?=C2=A0 Ho=
w=20
> am I able to check that out?=C2=A0 If this is the case, can the booster b=
e=20
> repaired by me or someone else, if so, who.=C2=A0 If fluid is leaking int=
o=20
> the booster, is it=C2=A0 better to simply replace the booster and who is =
a=20
> good source?
>
> Something always happens before what promises to be a great sunny weekend=
.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Fred
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
lter@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e
Healeys@autox.team.net
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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72"><div cla=
ss=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Over the years one thing that became=
evident to me, that it is best on some parts to have an expert (someone wh=
o does these repairs everyday) repair the unit for you. I have had many Gir=
ling boosters rebuilt by the vendor I mentioned previously, Power Brake Exc=
hange, and never had an issue with their work. Granted it has been a long w=
hile since the last one and I did not check with them before posting this. =
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Perry</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from <a href=3D=
"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986";>Mail</a> for Windows 10<=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style=3D'mso-element:para=
-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0i=
n 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b>=
<a href=3D"mailto:kags@shaw.ca";>Earl Kagna</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, June=
12, 2020 8:59 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com";>=
Michael Salter</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>Bob Spidell</a>=
<br><b>Cc: </b><a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team=
.net</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Healeys] Brakes</p></div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'>Fred / Bob:=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'>I have to agree with Michael o=
n this =E2=80=93 rebuilding the Girling servo is tricky at best. Plus=
, there is always the possibility that the bore in the servo body has enoug=
h damage that it would need to be repaired =E2=80=93 sleeved =E2=80=93 whic=
h is a complicated job as the bore is stepped. And you don=E2=80=99t =
really know it=E2=80=99s needed until it is off the car and apart.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0p=
t;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'>Another diagnostic measure: pull the re=
ar spark plugs - if there is brake fluid being drawn in, they will very whi=
te in appearance, depending on the brake fluid (glycol or silicone).<o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'>Quite a few us here on the west coast=
in BC have installed the PBR VH44 servo with great success. It is a =
more modern design =E2=80=93 a diaphragm servo, rather than the vacuum pist=
on. Plus it has a very convenient bleed screw of it=E2=80=99s own =E2=
=80=93 particularly helpful if DOT 5 silicone brake fluid is being used.&nb=
sp; Plus, it doesn=E2=80=99t look too out of place on the Healey, unless yo=
u paint it pink! <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'>I=E2=80=99m s=
ure that a search of the usual Healey parts suppliers will tell you if they=
are available in North America. We have dealt with Hydroboost in Aus=
tralia =E2=80=93 last time we ordered, they supplied fitting kits as well =
=E2=80=93 a couple of pre-bent brake pipes, a correct vacuum hose (it needs=
to be about 4 inches longer than the original), and a pair of Kilmartin mo=
unting brackets (they are very close neighbours).<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-se=
rif;color:#141100'>One caution: the PBR VH44 is made in several boost ratio=
s, so pay attention to get the correct version for the Healey. Check =
their web-site =E2=80=93 all kinds of interesting information on servos.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'>Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
",sans-serif;color:#141100'>Earl Kagna<br>Victoria, B.C.<br>BJ8, BT7 tri-ca=
rb<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color=
:black'> <a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; title=3D"michaelsalter@=
gmail.com">Michael Salter</a> </span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:=
black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#141100'>Sent:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#141100'> Friday, June 12, 20=
20 9:35 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ba=
ckground:whitesmoke'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
",sans-serif;color:#141100'>To:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@c=
omcast.net" title=3D"bspidell@comcast.net">Bob Spidell</a> <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#141100=
'>Cc:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-s=
erif;color:#141100'> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; title=3D"hea=
leys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#141100'>Subject=
:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif=
;color:#141100'> Re: [Healeys] Brakes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#141100'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I w=
ould agree with Bob that the most likely problem is the servo. </span><span=
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>You can check thi=
s fairly easily by loosening off the lower 10/32 nuts and screws on the ser=
vo chest and gently prying it open a little. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If the=
servo is leaking fluid will run out.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>IMHO Bob's&nbs=
p; 50/50 success rate for rebuilds is a little optimistic </span><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif;color:black'>=
🙄🙄</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black'>Unless you are fairly skilled you are unlikely to succe=
ed on your first few attempts.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Commercially I gave u=
p rebuilding them many years ago because of the dismal success rate and sta=
rted installing PBR VH44 servos, possibly still available from Healey Surge=
ons, which require different mount brackets and fluid lines. We never had a=
VH44 come-back.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 12:19 p.m. Bob Spide=
ll, <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net</a>>=
; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border=
-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margi=
n-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If a significant amount of brake fluid i=
s leaking into the servo you <br>will get white smoke out of the tailpipes =
(under most running <br>conditions). This is because the engine will suck f=
luid into the intake <br>manifold through the vacuum hose. The most likely =
cause of this is the <br>'gland' seal; which seals the vacuum piston--the l=
arge canister on the <br>servo--from the servo's hydraulics (it has two pis=
tons; one is activated <br>by pedal pressure to gate air at ambient pressur=
e into the canister to <br>assist a second 'master' cylinder, which powers =
the slave cyls).<br><br>You can rebuild the servo yourself; I've done it on=
ce successfully, <br>others report 50-50 success. I've not heard overwhelmi=
ng stories of <br>success with aftermarket (Lockheed, or an Australian equi=
valent) <br>replacements, but some like them. They aren't apparently, a 'dr=
op in' <br>replacement without some fiddling, and hearsay says they're not =
as <br>effective as the Girling (putting my Nomex suit on). The hydraulic <=
br>section of the servos is not much different from ordinary brake <br>cyli=
nders. The shop manual has an excellent explanation of the theory <br>and w=
orkings of the servos; it took me several reads and some cogitating <br>to =
grok it all, but they are pretty ingenious.<br><br>If you're not getting an=
y white smoke, your guess is as good as mine; I <br>have the same problem--=
although I haven't pulled the drums to check the <br>rear slave cylinders (=
fronts are not leaking)--but since I had bled them <br>before the problem o=
ccurred I'm thinking I screwed the pooch somehow on <br>the bleed.<br><br>B=
ob<br><br><br>On 6/12/2020 8:46 AM, Fred Wescoe wrote:<br>> I am having =
issues with the brakes on my 66 BJ8. I am new to this BJ8 <br>> wi=
th boosted brakes, but I have owned a BJ7 for many years. I don't <br=
>> find any clues in the shop manual or in Norm Nock's tech talk manual.=
<br>><br>> When I press the brake pedal, it slowly goes to the floor.=
I am losing <br>> hydraulic fluid in the reservoir but there are no app=
arent leaks that <br>> I can see. There are no fluid spots on the =
garage floor at each wheel <br>> and no evidence of brake fluid on the w=
ire wheels which would indicate <br>> a leak. I have pulled each w=
heel and I do not see brake fluid anywhere.<br>><br>> Is it possible =
that the fluid is leaking into the brake booster? How <br>> am I a=
ble to check that out? If this is the case, can the booster be <br>&g=
t; repaired by me or someone else, if so, who. If fluid is leaking in=
to <br>> the booster, is it better to simply replace the booster a=
nd who is a <br>> good source?<br>><br>> Something always happens =
before what promises to be a great sunny weekend.<br>><br>> Thanks fo=
r any help,<br>><br>> Fred<br>><br>><br>><br><br>___________=
____________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href=3D"http://=
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ter@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><img border=3D0 width=3D70=
8 height=3D1 style=3D'width:7.375in;height:.0104in' id=3D"Horizontal_x0020_=
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