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I echo Bob's comments. I've had the DWR high capacity pump for years.
Bruce Steele
Brea, CA
1960 BN7
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
Spidell
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM
To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] oil pump
I'll offer what I know/have heard*. I have the 'high capacity' type in my
BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a road car.
Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump. They (the rotor type) are supposed
to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs. At some point
it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this type of pump
put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam that drive the
pump, causing them to wear out. Later cars started getting the gear type
pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the
cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the
gears are the sintered iron variety). I think the bevel gears on the cams
were re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the load.
The Welch HC pump is the rotor type. I did a full engine rebuild and
installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth
mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but
the 'high capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which,
of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed). The 'standard type' pump
is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate for high-RPM race engines as
pump flow is proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of
oil with less load from the gear type.
I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can see the
'gallery plug' on the top of the case. I suppose it allows inspection of
the innards of the pump without having to break the case. I believe it's
threaded so not likely to pop out. If you're getting a new pump you'll
likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than
our (US) vendors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).
* apply appropriate grains of salt
Bob
On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM, simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com
Hi,
Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump ENG672M? See:-
https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bot
tom-end?page=3
Their text:- "Heat treated castings for longer life and removable gallery
plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil pumps we
offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road engines using a standard
type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump for race engines, steel
cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled
in-house to control the highest quality.
- ENG672 is the standard type.
- ENG672M is the high capacity pump."
What are "removable gallery plugs"?
Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? "High capacity" for
road cars and "standard" for race engines? Surely the highest capacity is
needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing?
And don't I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older type is
reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is this something similar to
Denis Welch's two pumps?
Anyhow, if anyone's got one...what's it like? Did the oil pressure improve
at all?
I'm guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a big rebuild
thus they won't have straightforward "before and after" comparisons. I'm
thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a small winter project and
hope I can squeeze a few more psi into the system.
Thanks,
Simon
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive
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lang=3DEN-US link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>I echo Bob’s comments. =
I’ve had the DWR high capacity pump for =
years.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Bruce Steele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Brea, CA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>1960 BN7<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext'> Healeys =
[mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob =
Spidell<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
healeys@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] oil =
pump<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>I'll offer what I know/have =
heard*. I have the 'high capacity' type in my BJ8, which is what =
the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a road car. Older 6-cyl =
cars had a rotor type pump. They (the rotor type) are supposed to =
be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs. At some =
point it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this =
type of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam =
that drive the pump, causing them to wear out. Later cars started =
getting the gear type pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but =
puts less of a load on the cam, and is probably less expensive to =
manufacture as well (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron =
variety). I think the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, =
IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the load.<span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p>The Welch HC pump is =
the rotor type. I did a full engine rebuild and installed the DWR =
HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth mentioning--I =
'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the 'high =
capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which, of =
course, is mostly dictated by engine speed). The 'standard =
type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate for high-RPM race =
engines as pump flow is proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more =
you'll get plenty of oil with less load from the gear =
type.<o:p></o:p></p><p>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos =
closely, you can see the 'gallery plug' on the top of the case. I =
suppose it allows inspection of the innards of the pump without having =
to break the case. I believe it's threaded so not likely to pop =
out. If you're getting a new pump you'll likely need a new drive =
shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell =
it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>* apply appropriate =
grains of salt<br><br>Bob<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com";>simon.lachlan@alexareve=
l.plus.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Has anyone got =
the Denis Welch oil pump ENG672M? See:-<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engin=
es/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-part=
s/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3</a><o:p></o:p></p><h2 =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0in;line-height:20.25pt'>Their text:- “<span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Heat treated castings for longer life and =
removable gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both =
types of oil pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road =
engines using a standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump =
for race engines, steel cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are =
precision machined and assembled in-house to control the highest =
quality.<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-GB'>- ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'><br>- ENG672M is the high capacity =
pump.”</span><o:p></o:p></h2><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>What are “removable gallery =
plugs”?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Is it just me or is the above a bit =
counter-intuitive? “High capacity” for road cars and =
“standard” for race engines? Surely the highest capacity is =
needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>And don’t I remember that, with the =
standard BMC pumps, the older type is reckoned to be better than the =
newer type? Is this something similar to Denis Welch’s two =
pumps?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Anyhow, if anyone’s got =
one…..what’s it like? Did the oil pressure improve at =
all?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>I’m guessing that most people will have =
fitted one as part of a big rebuild thus they won’t have =
straightforward “before and after” comparisons. I’m =
thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a small winter project =
and hope I can squeeze a few more psi into the system. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Simon<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>____________________=
___________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Support Team.Net <a =
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/a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Suggested annual donation =
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