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OK Richard, I won=E2=80=99t take offense to your reply, we will just agree =
to disagree when it comes to safety.
Gil
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of richard =
mayor
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 1:57 PM
To: healeys
Subject: Re: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fuse Box
I'm in agreement with Josef. In America it is known as the "KISS" principl=
e.........."Keep it Simple Stupid". For those not familiar with American =
slang, "Stupid" refers to the person that is trying to make it complicated.=
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:35 AM, josef-eckert@t-online.de <josef-eckert@t-o=
nline.de> wrote:
Gil,
I am working as an electronic engineer in the automove industry. The compan=
y I am working for parttime is one of the big parts sellers for classic Bri=
tish cars here in Europe. In my spare time I work on my classic cars and he=
lp friends with their car electrics. Often I get additional grey hairs when=
I want to fix something on a friends car and see a wiring harness nobody i=
s anymore able to find the routes of the cables and circuits. A network of=
additional cables, additional fuses and relais added without any documenta=
tion, cable colours not as they should be and all mixed together or all in =
one colour!!. A network of cables under the dashboard which reminds me to a=
telecom switching centre - nightmare.
I see your point and you and many others feel saver the more fuses and rela=
is are installed in the car. Don=C2=B4t forget they can also fail, and the =
more you add the more can fail. Its usually the connectors and connections =
which fail. When you double the fuses and relais you eightfold the connecti=
ons in the wiring system. So 10times more causes for trouble.
When an electric device fails, it usually causes a short circuit or an open=
cirquit. Open cirquit means no harm to the system. Short cirquit means any=
fuse, 5 Amps or 50 Amps blow off before the wiring melts. There are only v=
ery isolated failures which can cause real trouble like the overdrive solen=
oid, when its internal contacts do not open when engaged. This is a point t=
o fit an additional fuse. Another one is the not originally fused back ligh=
t cirquit.
Your point "Losing just one smaller circuit rather than disabling a major =
portion of the car can make the difference between getting back home or be=
ing completely disabled alongside the road."
This I see as a valid point for those drivers who have only marginal skils =
with electrical systems and are not able to find the issue by their own. Bu=
t when you can read a wiring diagram and know how to use a volt meter, it s=
houldn=C2=B4t be a problem to find the source of the problem and isolate it=
=2E I think there are much more who get stranded with generator failure (No=
, I have to say alternator failure, as these are morre prone to fail than t=
he old LUCAS generator) or electronic ignition failure.
You see my experiance is more from the other side and I am really happy whe=
n I have an original wired car with an electrical problem, than one of thes=
e with modified electrical systems which usually cause havoc.
Don=C2=B4t forget, British classic cars were simple cars and the engineers =
were clever enough to keep them simple. If you want a complex classic car t=
here are so many mainly Italian, French, classics where you can find these =
gimmicks and they always cause troubles. That=C2=B4s why they very hardly w=
on an indurance rally. Austin-Healeys came through and one reason for that=
was their elementary but very reliable electrical system with the LUCAS na=
me on it.
Josef Eckert
Germany
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: RE: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fuse Box
Datum: 2015-12-17T14:14:57+0100
Von: "Gil Rockwell" <gilrockwell@gmail.com>
An: "josef-eckert@t-online.de" <josef-eckert@t-online.de>, "'Oudesluys'" <c=
oudesluijs@chello.nl>, "'Healeys, Forum'" <healeys@autox.team.net>
Josef,
I think the point is when you have more than one fuse, a problem is isolate=
d to the smaller circuit with its own fuse rather than taking out a large p=
ortion of the electrical system in the car. Losing just one smaller circui=
t rather than disabling a major portion of the car can make the difference=
between getting back home or being completely disabled alongside the road.=
I always vote for having more fuse circuits when I am re-wiring any car. =
I've done many over the years and have never regretted doing so. Keeping =
a few extra fuses in the storage area is not a big deal. Also, having a fu=
se sized to the smaller circuit's task means that a fault of a part will be=
detected by a more appropriately sized fuse rather than a large fuse that =
might not blow when a smaller part fails internally and causes it to smoke =
or catch fire before the large fuse finally fails. This is when the wring =
begins to take the abuse and overheat due to the large fuse not failing in =
time. My 61 BT7 has the original fuse setup and a new wiring harness insta=
lled by the previous owner, but if it ever fails, I will certainly take adv=
antage of a new fuse distribution box like the one being discussed and I wi=
ll have the peace of mind knowing that a single failure will not take out t=
he entire car. I believe any automotive engineer will agree with me, but =
you are entitled to your opinion based on keeping a Healey original.
Gil
61 BT7
-----Original Message-----
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of josef-ec=
kert@t-online.de
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 1:32 AM
To: Oudesluys; Healeys, Forum
Subject: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fuse Box
Kees,
Sorry, but you wrote switches are old and have worn a fair bit.
That may be right, but when you have a look to the internals of an original=
Austin-Healey ignition switch or light switch, the contact design and swit=
ching abilities are far superior to anycar box relay you get in today=C2=B4=
s market. So they are more than capable to cope with the high currents. Its=
different with i.e. MG B switches used in the 70s.
You also wrote:
Also having only two large fuses causes a lot of damage when something goes=
wrong and there is a short.
I see you are not much in electrics. It doesn=C2=B4t matter if you have 2 o=
r 30 fuses in your car. When there is a short and the line is fused, via on=
e of the 2 or 30 fuses, the fuse blows and no damage is caused. So when you=
fuse each line seperately there is no improvement. Critical are those conn=
ections which are not fused at all. There I see an improvement with additio=
nal fuses. But there are only two or three additional fuses needed, when yo=
u want to savegard this.
The original electrical system of my original Healeys are more reliable as =
any of my modern cars. To my opinion many fuses do not help, the cause even=
more trouble.
Josef Eckert
Germany
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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>OK Richar=
d, I won=E2=80=99t take offense to your reply, we will just agree to disagr=
ee when it comes to safety.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gil<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif"'> Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf =
Of </b>richard mayor<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 17, 2015 1:57 PM<br=
><b>To:</b> healeys<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] New Classic Technologi=
es Fuse Box<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I'm in agreement with Josef. In America it =
is known as the "KISS" principle.........."Keep it Simple St=
upid". For those not familiar with American slang, "Stupid=
" refers to the person that is trying to make it complicated. <o=
:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal>On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:35 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:josef-e=
ckert@t-online.de">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:josef=
-eckert@t-online.de" target=3D"_blank">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>> wro=
te:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Gil,<=
br>I am working as an electronic engineer in the automove industry. The com=
pany I am working for parttime is one of the big parts sellers for classic =
British cars here in Europe. In my spare time I work on my classic cars and=
help friends with their car electrics. Often I get additional grey hairs w=
hen I want to fix something on a friends car and see a wiring harness nobod=
y is anymore able to find the routes of the cables and circuits. A ne=
twork of additional cables, additional fuses and relais added without any d=
ocumentation, cable colours not as they should be and all mixed together or=
all in one colour!!. A network of cables under the dashboard which reminds=
me to a telecom switching centre - nightmare.<br>I see your point and you =
and many others feel saver the more fuses and relais are installed in the c=
ar. Don=C2=B4t forget they can also fail, and the more you add the more can=
fail. Its usually the connectors and connections which fail. When you doub=
le the fuses and relais you eightfold the connections in the wiring system.=
So 10times more causes for trouble.<br>When an electric device fails, it u=
sually causes a short circuit or an open cirquit. Open cirquit means no har=
m to the system. Short cirquit means any fuse, 5 Amps or 50 Amps blow off b=
efore the wiring melts. There are only very isolated failures which can cau=
se real trouble like the overdrive solenoid, when its internal contacts do =
not open when engaged. This is a point to fit an additional fuse. Another o=
ne is the not originally fused back light cirquit.<br>Your point &quo=
t;Losing just one smaller circuit rather than disabling a major portion of =
the car can make the difference between getting back home or being co=
mpletely disabled alongside the road."<br>This I see as a valid point =
for those drivers who have only marginal skils with electrical systems and =
are not able to find the issue by their own. But when you can read a wiring=
diagram and know how to use a volt meter, it shouldn=C2=B4t be a problem t=
o find the source of the problem and isolate it. I think there are much mor=
e who get stranded with generator failure (No, I have to say alternator fai=
lure, as these are morre prone to fail than the old LUCAS generator) or ele=
ctronic ignition failure.<br>You see my experiance is more from the other s=
ide and I am really happy when I have an original wired car with an electri=
cal problem, than one of these with modified electrical systems which usual=
ly cause havoc.<br>Don=C2=B4t forget, British classic cars were simple cars=
and the engineers were clever enough to keep them simple. If you want a co=
mplex classic car there are so many mainly Italian, French, classics where =
you can find these gimmicks and they always cause troubles. That=C2=B4s why=
they very hardly won an indurance rally. Austin-Healeys came through=
and one reason for that was their elementary but very reliable electrical =
system with the LUCAS name on it.<br>Josef Eckert<br>Germany<br><br>-----Or=
iginal-Nachricht-----<br>Betreff: RE: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fu=
se Box<br>Datum: 2015-12-17T14:14:57+0100<br>Von: "Gil Rockwell" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:gilrockwell@gmail.com";>gilrockwell@gmail.com</a>><=
br>An: "<a href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de";>josef-eckert@t-onl=
ine.de</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de";>josef-ecke=
rt@t-online.de</a>>, "'Oudesluys'" <<a href=3D"mailto:coude=
sluijs@chello.nl">coudesluijs@chello.nl</a>>, "'Healeys, Forum'&quo=
t; <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>=
><br><br>Josef,<br><br>I think the point is when you have more than one =
fuse, a problem is isolated to the smaller circuit with its own fuse rather=
than taking out a large portion of the electrical system in the car. =
Losing just one smaller circuit rather than disabling a major portion of t=
he car can make the difference between getting back home or being com=
pletely disabled alongside the road. I always vote for having more fu=
se circuits when I am re-wiring any car. I've done many over the year=
s and have never regretted doing so. Keeping a few extra fuses in the=
storage area is not a big deal. Also, having a fuse sized to the sma=
ller circuit's task means that a fault of a part will be detected by a more=
appropriately sized fuse rather than a large fuse that might not blow when=
a smaller part fails internally and causes it to smoke or catch fire befor=
e the large fuse finally fails. This is when the wring begins to take=
the abuse and overheat due to the large fuse not failing in time. My=
61 BT7 has the original fuse setup and a new wiring harness installed by t=
he previous owner, but if it ever fails, I will certainly take advantage of=
a new fuse distribution box like the one being discussed and I will have t=
he peace of mind knowing that a single failure will not take out the entire=
car. I believe any automotive engineer will agree with me, but=
you are entitled to your opinion based on keeping a Healey original.<br><b=
r>Gil<br>61 BT7<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Healeys [mailto:=
<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>healeys-bounces@autox.tea=
m.net</a>] On Behalf Of <a href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de";>josef-e=
ckert@t-online.de</a><br>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 1:32 AM<br>To: O=
udesluys; Healeys, Forum<br>Subject: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fus=
e Box<br><br>Kees,<br>Sorry, but you wrote switches are old and have worn a=
fair bit.<br><br>That may be right, but when you have a look to the intern=
als of an original Austin-Healey ignition switch or light switch, the conta=
ct design and switching abilities are far superior to anycar box relay you =
get in today=C2=B4s market. So they are more than capable to cope with the =
high currents. Its different with i.e. MG B switches used in the 70s.<br><b=
r>You also wrote:<br>Also having only two large fuses causes a lot of damag=
e when something goes wrong and there is a short.<br><br>I see you are not =
much in electrics. It doesn=C2=B4t matter if you have 2 or 30 fuses in your=
car. When there is a short and the line is fused, via one of the 2 or 30 f=
uses, the fuse blows and no damage is caused. So when you fuse each line se=
perately there is no improvement. Critical are those connections which are =
not fused at all. There I see an improvement with additional fuses. But the=
re are only two or three additional fuses needed, when you want to savegard=
this.<br>The original electrical system of my original Healeys are more re=
liable as any of my modern cars. To my opinion many fuses do not help, the =
cause even more trouble.<br><br>Josef Eckert<br>Germany<br><br><br><br><br>=
---<br>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=
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