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I'm in agreement with Josef. In America it is known as the "KISS"
principle.........."Keep it Simple Stupid". For those not familiar with
American slang, "Stupid" refers to the person that is trying to make it
complicated.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:35 AM, josef-eckert@t-online.de <
josef-eckert@t-online.de> wrote:
> Gil,
> I am working as an electronic engineer in the automove industry. The
> company I am working for parttime is one of the big parts sellers for
> classic British cars here in Europe. In my spare time I work on my classi=
c
> cars and help friends with their car electrics. Often I get additional gr=
ey
> hairs when I want to fix something on a friends car and see a wiring
> harness nobody is anymore able to find the routes of the cables and
> circuits. A network of additional cables, additional fuses and relais add=
ed
> without any documentation, cable colours not as they should be and all
> mixed together or all in one colour!!. A network of cables under the
> dashboard which reminds me to a telecom switching centre - nightmare.
> I see your point and you and many others feel saver the more fuses and
> relais are installed in the car. Don=C2=B4t forget they can also fail, an=
d the
> more you add the more can fail. Its usually the connectors and connection=
s
> which fail. When you double the fuses and relais you eightfold the
> connections in the wiring system. So 10times more causes for trouble.
> When an electric device fails, it usually causes a short circuit or an
> open cirquit. Open cirquit means no harm to the system. Short cirquit mea=
ns
> any fuse, 5 Amps or 50 Amps blow off before the wiring melts. There are
> only very isolated failures which can cause real trouble like the overdri=
ve
> solenoid, when its internal contacts do not open when engaged. This is a
> point to fit an additional fuse. Another one is the not originally fused
> back light cirquit.
> Your point "Losing just one smaller circuit rather than disabling a majo=
r
> portion of the car can make the difference between getting back home or
> being completely disabled alongside the road."
> This I see as a valid point for those drivers who have only marginal skil=
s
> with electrical systems and are not able to find the issue by their own.
> But when you can read a wiring diagram and know how to use a volt meter, =
it
> shouldn=C2=B4t be a problem to find the source of the problem and isolate=
it. I
> think there are much more who get stranded with generator failure (No, I
> have to say alternator failure, as these are morre prone to fail than the
> old LUCAS generator) or electronic ignition failure.
> You see my experiance is more from the other side and I am really happy
> when I have an original wired car with an electrical problem, than one of
> these with modified electrical systems which usually cause havoc.
> Don=C2=B4t forget, British classic cars were simple cars and the engineer=
s were
> clever enough to keep them simple. If you want a complex classic car ther=
e
> are so many mainly Italian, French, classics where you can find these
> gimmicks and they always cause troubles. That=C2=B4s why they very hardly=
won an
> indurance rally. Austin-Healeys came through and one reason for that was
> their elementary but very reliable electrical system with the LUCAS name =
on
> it.
> Josef Eckert
> Germany
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
> Betreff: RE: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fuse Box
> Datum: 2015-12-17T14:14:57+0100
> Von: "Gil Rockwell" <gilrockwell@gmail.com>
> An: "josef-eckert@t-online.de" <josef-eckert@t-online.de>, "'Oudesluys'" =
<
> coudesluijs@chello.nl>, "'Healeys, Forum'" <healeys@autox.team.net>
>
> Josef,
>
> I think the point is when you have more than one fuse, a problem is
> isolated to the smaller circuit with its own fuse rather than taking out =
a
> large portion of the electrical system in the car. Losing just one small=
er
> circuit rather than disabling a major portion of the car can make the
> difference between getting back home or being completely disabled alongsi=
de
> the road. I always vote for having more fuse circuits when I am re-wirin=
g
> any car. I've done many over the years and have never regretted doing so=
.
> Keeping a few extra fuses in the storage area is not a big deal. Also,
> having a fuse sized to the smaller circuit's task means that a fault of a
> part will be detected by a more appropriately sized fuse rather than a
> large fuse that might not blow when a smaller part fails internally and
> causes it to smoke or catch fire before the large fuse finally fails. Th=
is
> is when the wring begins to take the abuse and overheat due to the large
> fuse not failing in time. My 61 BT7 has the original fuse setup and a ne=
w
> wiring harness installed by the previous owner, but if it ever fails, I
> will certainly take advantage of a new fuse distribution box like the one
> being discussed and I will have the peace of mind knowing that a single
> failure will not take out the entire car. I believe any automotive
> engineer will agree with me, but you are entitled to your opinion based o=
n
> keeping a Healey original.
>
> Gil
> 61 BT7
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> josef-eckert@t-online.de
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 1:32 AM
> To: Oudesluys; Healeys, Forum
> Subject: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fuse Box
>
> Kees,
> Sorry, but you wrote switches are old and have worn a fair bit.
>
> That may be right, but when you have a look to the internals of an
> original Austin-Healey ignition switch or light switch, the contact desig=
n
> and switching abilities are far superior to anycar box relay you get in
> today=C2=B4s market. So they are more than capable to cope with the high
> currents. Its different with i.e. MG B switches used in the 70s.
>
> You also wrote:
> Also having only two large fuses causes a lot of damage when something
> goes wrong and there is a short.
>
> I see you are not much in electrics. It doesn=C2=B4t matter if you have 2=
or 30
> fuses in your car. When there is a short and the line is fused, via one o=
f
> the 2 or 30 fuses, the fuse blows and no damage is caused. So when you fu=
se
> each line seperately there is no improvement. Critical are those
> connections which are not fused at all. There I see an improvement with
> additional fuses. But there are only two or three additional fuses needed=
,
> when you want to savegard this.
> The original electrical system of my original Healeys are more reliable a=
s
> any of my modern cars. To my opinion many fuses do not help, the cause ev=
en
> more trouble.
>
> Josef Eckert
> Germany
>
>
>
>
> ---
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>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">I'm in agreement with Josef.=C2=A0 In America it is kn=
own as the "KISS" principle.........."Keep it Simple Stupid&=
quot;. =C2=A0 For those not familiar with American slang, "Stupid"=
; refers to the person that is trying to make it complicated.=C2=A0 <br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 17=
, 2015 at 6:35 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de";>josef-eckert=
@t-online.de</a> <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-onl=
ine.de" target=3D"_blank">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>></span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Gil,<br>
I am working as an electronic engineer in the automove industry. The compan=
y I am working for parttime is one of the big parts sellers for classic Bri=
tish cars here in Europe. In my spare time I work on my classic cars and he=
lp friends with their car electrics. Often I get additional grey hairs when=
I want to fix something on a friends car and see a wiring harness nobody i=
s anymore able to find the routes of=C2=A0 the cables and circuits. A netwo=
rk of additional cables, additional fuses and relais added without any docu=
mentation, cable colours not as they should be and all mixed together or al=
l in one colour!!. A network of cables under the dashboard which reminds me=
to a telecom switching centre - nightmare.<br>
I see your point and you and many others feel saver the more fuses and rela=
is are installed in the car. Don=C2=B4t forget they can also fail, and the =
more you add the more can fail. Its usually the connectors and connections =
which fail. When you double the fuses and relais you eightfold the connecti=
ons in the wiring system. So 10times more causes for trouble.<br>
When an electric device fails, it usually causes a short circuit or an open=
cirquit. Open cirquit means no harm to the system. Short cirquit means any=
fuse, 5 Amps or 50 Amps blow off before the wiring melts. There are only v=
ery isolated failures which can cause real trouble like the overdrive solen=
oid, when its internal contacts do not open when engaged. This is a point t=
o fit an additional fuse. Another one is the not originally fused back ligh=
t cirquit.<br>
Your point=C2=A0 "Losing just one smaller circuit rather than disablin=
g a major portion of the car can make=C2=A0 the difference between getting =
back home or being completely disabled alongside the road."<br>
This I see as a valid point for those drivers who have only marginal skils =
with electrical systems and are not able to find the issue by their own. Bu=
t when you can read a wiring diagram and know how to use a volt meter, it s=
houldn=C2=B4t be a problem to find the source of the problem and isolate it=
. I think there are much more who get stranded with generator failure (No, =
I have to say alternator failure, as these are morre prone to fail than the=
old LUCAS generator) or electronic ignition failure.<br>
You see my experiance is more from the other side and I am really happy whe=
n I have an original wired car with an electrical problem, than one of thes=
e with modified electrical systems which usually cause havoc.<br>
Don=C2=B4t forget, British classic cars were simple cars and the engineers =
were clever enough to keep them simple. If you want a complex classic car t=
here are so many mainly Italian, French, classics where you can find these =
gimmicks and they always cause troubles. That=C2=B4s why they very hardly w=
on an indurance rally.=C2=A0 Austin-Healeys came through and one reason for=
that was their elementary but very reliable electrical system with the LUC=
AS name on it.<br>
Josef Eckert<br>
Germany<br>
<br>
-----Original-Nachricht-----<br>
Betreff: RE: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fuse Box<br>
Datum: 2015-12-17T14:14:57+0100<br>
Von: "Gil Rockwell" <<a href=3D"mailto:gilrockwell@gmail.com";>=
gilrockwell@gmail.com</a>><br>
An: "<a href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de";>josef-eckert@t-online=
.de</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de";>josef-eckert@=
t-online.de</a>>, "'Oudesluys'" <<a href=3D"mailto:=
coudesluijs@chello.nl">coudesluijs@chello.nl</a>>, "'Healeys, F=
orum'" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox=
.team.net</a>><br>
<br>
Josef,<br>
<br>
I think the point is when you have more than one fuse, a problem is isolate=
d to the smaller circuit with its own fuse rather than taking out a large p=
ortion of the electrical system in the car.=C2=A0 Losing just one smaller c=
ircuit rather than disabling a major portion of the car can make=C2=A0 the =
difference between getting back home or being completely disabled alongside=
the road.=C2=A0 I always vote for having more fuse circuits when I am re-w=
iring any car.=C2=A0 I've done many over the years and have never regre=
tted doing so.=C2=A0 Keeping a few extra fuses in the storage area is not a=
big deal.=C2=A0 Also, having a fuse sized to the smaller circuit's tas=
k means that a fault of a part will be detected by a more appropriately siz=
ed fuse rather than a large fuse that might not blow when a smaller part fa=
ils internally and causes it to smoke or catch fire before the large fuse f=
inally fails.=C2=A0 This is when the wring begins to take the abuse and ove=
rheat due to the large fuse not failing in time.=C2=A0 My 61 BT7 has the or=
iginal fuse setup and a new wiring harness installed by the previous owner,=
but if it ever fails, I will certainly take advantage of a new fuse distri=
bution box like the one being discussed and I will have the peace of mind k=
nowing that a single failure will not take out the entire car.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
I believe any automotive engineer will agree with me, but you are entitled =
to your opinion based on keeping a Healey original.<br>
<br>
Gil<br>
61 BT7<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Healeys [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>hea=
leys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>] On Behalf Of <a href=3D"mailto:josef-ecker=
t@t-online.de">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a><br>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 1:32 AM<br>
To: Oudesluys; Healeys, Forum<br>
Subject: [Healeys] New Classic Technologies Fuse Box<br>
<br>
Kees,<br>
Sorry, but you wrote switches are old and have worn a fair bit.<br>
<br>
That may be right, but when you have a look to the internals of an original=
Austin-Healey ignition switch or light switch, the contact design and swit=
ching abilities are far superior to anycar box relay you get in today=C2=B4=
s market. So they are more than capable to cope with the high currents. Its=
different with i.e. MG B switches used in the 70s.<br>
<br>
You also wrote:<br>
Also having only two large fuses causes a lot of damage when something goes=
wrong and there is a short.<br>
<br>
I see you are not much in electrics. It doesn=C2=B4t matter if you have 2 o=
r 30 fuses in your car. When there is a short and the line is fused, via on=
e of the 2 or 30 fuses, the fuse blows and no damage is caused. So when you=
fuse each line seperately there is no improvement. Critical are those conn=
ections which are not fused at all. There I see an improvement with additio=
nal fuses. But there are only two or three additional fuses needed, when yo=
u want to savegard this.<br>
The original electrical system of my original Healeys are more reliable as =
any of my modern cars. To my opinion many fuses do not help, the cause even=
more trouble.<br>
<br>
Josef Eckert<br>
Germany<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---<br>
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