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Re: Vehicle eligibility...

To: Keith Hearn <khearn@Legato.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle eligibility...
From: Derek Butts <pnc1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:57:51 -0700
I have driven this van before.  We used to have one as a parts van.   If
autocrossed it will end up like an upside down turtle....

-Derek

Keith Hearn wrote:

> Frankly, I don't have any experience with a Previa, so I have no clue as
>   to whether or not it's safe to autox. Does anyone out there who is
>   saying it's unsafe have an actual experience with it, or or we just
>   seeing knee-jerk reactions because it's a mini-van?
>
> Kevin's numbers at least make me think it *might* be safe. How many of
>   those saying it's not safe realised that it's got a wider track
>   than a Camaro?  If it's got a track that's wider than a Camaro, it
>   hardly falls into the "narrow track" category. I have no idea if it
>   falls into the "high center of gravity" category, but at this point
>   I'm not going to assume anything.
>
> How about if someone with some experience takes the vehicle in
>   question out for a test drive and see how it feels? Who knows,
>   maybe it's safer than those Rabbits that regularly get several
>   inches of air under their rear wheels and have a history of
>   rolling in autocrosses, yet are still allowed to run.
>
>   Keith Hearn
>   '99 Miata 10AE "Sexy Sadie" the Sapphire Shark
>   B-Stock
>   Milpitas, CA
>
> In message <4.3.2.7.0.20001018130914.02b50a20@derf.madams.com>, "Darren P. 
>Mada
> ms" writes:
> > Ok, I'll bite... damnit... :)
> >
> > Isn't there a better way to predict rollover stability?  Didn't this come
> > up when that idiot at the insurance department or something used a formula
> > similar to Kevin's numbers comparison (sorry Kevin, not a jab at you) and
> > came to the conclusion that any SUV has a 95% chance of rolling over?
> >
> > It was disputed that even the height of the CofG does not have a
> > substantial effect on rollover probability.  I think it was also discussed
> > on the national list that rear suspension and shock function at full (and
> > over) compression and full extension contribute to a large portion of
> > rollovers.  I would think it would have to do more with roll centers and
> > polar movement and inertia than just track/height.
> >
> > Now, whether you want to make that a requirement for vehicle eligibility is
> > up for debate... and what other cars might be excluded (Larry's Focus?  BMW
> > 318ti's?) too...
> >
> >          --D
> >
> > p.s. I wouldn't allow the Previa to run just on the "why push our luck"
> > common sense rule, but you're right in that there's no specific rule.  I
> > don't have my rulebook handy but I'm sure there's an out for the Safety
> > Steward or Solo Chief to override anything in the name of safety.  Of
> > course, then the action is protestable, but a PC will most likely agree
> > with the chiefs.
> >
> > At 12:31 PM 10/18/00, Kevin Stevens wrote:
> > > >A Previa is not an acceptable vehicle for Solo II.
> > > >
> > > >--John Kelly
> > >
> > >(paraphrased:  "Ditto." -- Charlie Davis)
> > >
> > >I'm wondering about the grounds for these opinions?  I don't particularly
> > >care about the Previa, but let's look at it.
> > >
> > >What the (1999) rulebook says:
> > >
> > >=========================
> > >3.1 ELIGIBLE VEHICLES
> > >A Solo II Event is open to any vehicle that can pass safety inspection...
> > >except that vehicles with wheelbases exceeding 116 inches may be 
>excluded...
> > >
> > >Unstable vehicles with a high center of gravity and a narrow track must be
> > >excluded (e.g. Suzuki Samurai, Jeep CJ series, and GEO Sidekick).
> > >==========================
> > >
> > >Vehicle     Track     Height
> > >Samurai     51.4      65.6
> > >Wrangler    58.0      70.6
> > >Sidekick    55.x      64.3
> > >Previa      61.4      68.7
> > >Camaro      60.6      51.8
> > >
> > >Clearly the Previa doesn't have a narrow track compared to anything.  High
> > >CG would have to be measured; however of note is that each of the exampled
> > >vehicles are taller than they are wide.  The Previa is two inches wider 
>than
> > >tall.  It also carries its engine and drivetrain significantly lower than
> > >most vehicles.  Its wheelbase is 112.8 inches, the 4x4s range from 80-93.4.
> > >
> > >If we intend to exclude all minivans and SUVs, we better say so - the
> > >rulebook quite carefully does not.  If there's some more subjective 
>criteria
> > >y'all are using, what is it?  I don't have enough experience with non-coupe
> > >cars in autocross to have a valid opinion - I never see them run.
> > >
> > >KeS
> >




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