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"The=C2=A0 six cylinder car's clutch is not such a happy story and is the A=
chilles Heel of the 6 cylinder cars."=C2=A0 So says Roger Williams in his b=
ook; How to Restore Triumph TR5/250 & TR6.
I am not going to reproduce that section of the book here, but I will try t=
o de-mystify this area of the car.
The issues center around:
a.) mechanical tolerances/design deficiency.b.) supersessionc.) poor docume=
ntation
The clutch design does not have much allowance for wear & tear. Originally =
a 0.75" Master Cylinder was fitted and this worked well but their were comp=
laints of "heavy clutch" with this system. During the 1970 model year, the =
master cylinder was changed to a 0.70" unit. This did soften up the clutch =
pressure, but now wear and tear deficiencies of the mechanical parts became=
significant issues causing drag and partial clutch disengagement. Bushing =
wear, clutch fork pin wear , cylinder leaks etc. will cause poor performanc=
e.=C2=A0=C2=A0
The car parts biz is quite dynamic, and companies get sold, go out of busin=
ess, or simply manage the life cycle of their products. Part of this is tha=
t if they have a slow or small selling item, they look around to see if the=
y have another part with greater sales that could be use for the slow selli=
ng application and they discontinue the part for the slow selling applicati=
on.=C2=A0 The original clutch & driven plate were Laycock units and worked =
quite well.=C2=A0 But Laycock sold their clutch business to LUK. LUK stoppe=
d making the TR6 Clutch some time ago.=C2=A0 Enter Borg & Beck.=C2=A0 They =
offered a clutch for the TR6 that I think became a standard.=C2=A0 It worke=
d quite well. But in time, they saw slow sales for this model and it disapp=
eared from the inventory. B&B used colored paint spots to mark their differ=
ent pressure plates - I believe there was a "Yellow-spot" a "Green-Spot" an=
d a "Blue-spot".=C2=A0 I don't recall which one was used on the TR6, but it=
was discontinued and superceded with one of the other clutches. Should be =
ok right?=C2=A0 It fits right?=C2=A0 No problem then!=C2=A0 Wrong! Wrong be=
cause one of these clutches was designed for a much heavier vehicle (Van). =
You want a good tight clutch right?=C2=A0 Yes, but excessive spring pressur=
e is very hard on the thrust washers when the clutch is disengaged.=C2=A0 N=
ot a good situation. Also it increases pressure on the clutch fork pin and =
can break it. Anyone who has ever had a broken clutch fork pin knows what a=
PITA it is. Then B&B was sold to Delphi and that product line was rational=
ized with yet another clutch that had "cranked" spring fingers. Another gen=
eric parts vendor Quinton Hazel also has such a clutch.=C2=A0 I have heard =
mixed reports on this type, with some folks reporting squealing and other r=
eporting good operation.=C2=A0 I can only tell you that their original Layc=
ock design was straight fingered. Some of the squealing reports seem to be =
linked with larger throw-out bearings when used with the cranked fingered c=
lutches.=C2=A0 Now some info about the throw-out bearings.
The original configuration was an RHP bearing on a bronze carrier that was =
pinned. A while back reports came out about premature failures with the RHP=
bearings. Either a bad batch of bearing was made or quality had suffered. =
It is hard to know what happened, because once a part like this gets a "bla=
ck-eye", people move away from them because they are such a pain to change,=
nobody wants to take a chance on it again.=C2=A0 I am not saying that RHP =
bearings are good or bad, simply relating what I have heard.=C2=A0 Anecdote=
- This became an issue for me because I was a "clutch rider" (head hung in=
shame).=C2=A0 I would sit there at a light with my left foot on the clutch=
and my foot on the brake. After=C2=A0 a while I began to hear my bearing (=
an RHP as it turns out) whirring away.=C2=A0 So when I pulled the tranny fo=
r another project, I decided that I should get a new bearing and it would n=
ot be an RHP.=C2=A0 Now was it a crappy bearing or a crappy driver that was=
the issue?=C2=A0 These things are hard to tease apart.=C2=A0 There are now=
a number of brands out there, but I will mention 3.=C2=A0 The Koyo bearing=
was originally designed for a Landcruiser. It was larger than the other be=
arings.=C2=A0 Some folks love'em and some folks have reporting squealing.=
=C2=A0 It is true that being a larger bearing it is going to take more forc=
e to overcome inertia and get it spinning. There is another bearing that co=
mes highly recommended called KYK. Never used one but would because of this=
recommendation from a source that I trust. Gunst has become a dirty name i=
n some quarters of the Triumph community.=C2=A0 It was hyped as a godsend, =
and then a few problems were mentioned (hard to track down the variables).=
=C2=A0 I will say that the Gust bearings are different in that they are mea=
nt to contact the clutch at all times.=C2=A0 I have put one in my car.=C2=
=A0 I don't know what to expect but I hope for the best.=C2=A0 Finally carr=
iers.=C2=A0 Bronze carriers have been mentioned as preferred. It makes sens=
e as they are useful in circumstances when you have surface movements in th=
at bronze seems to resist abrasion and not gall. Mating the carrier to the =
bearing is a precision operation.=C2=A0 Most of us should either buy a bear=
ing that is mated to the carrier or have a good machine shop do it for you.=
"Pinned" refers to a hardened pin that prevents the bearing carrier from r=
otating on the clutch fork pin. This makes sense to me as we want to gearin=
g to rotate and not the carrier.=C2=A0 I know folks who have had squealing =
issue without a pin. Again drilling and installing an anti-rotation pin is =
best left to a shop for most of us.
"Magic Clutch" Kit - Hype or for real?=C2=A0 A word about Charles Runyon. C=
harles Runyon, the former proprietor of the Roadster Factory has recently p=
assed away.=C2=A0 I won't speak ill of the dead except to acknowledge that =
some folks in our community may have got hurt over some of his business pra=
ctices late in his life.=C2=A0 I will say that Charles and his company have=
been for a very long time, real friends and proponents of our community.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Charles had noticed that there seemed to be a lot of clutch is=
sues with our cars and some of these issues no doubt blew back on him, when=
new parts he sold didn't fix the issues (remember these problems are hard =
to tease apart). Being very well connected in the community he was able to =
pull opinions from some of the most knowledgeable folks in our hobby and co=
me of with a serious attempt at rectifying these clutch issues. Charles rea=
lized that the reliability of the clutch mechanics was as important as the =
clutch components themselves and pulled together a kit of parts that would =
significantly improve the probability of successful clutch repair.=C2=A0 So=
I think it is for real and not hype, that when you do a clutch job you sho=
uld replace everything. It isn't that much more money and it worth the extr=
a effort. He also discovered the Sachs clutch.=C2=A0 This clutch most resem=
bles the original Laycock clutch design. This is the clutch I have used in =
my car.=C2=A0 I have gone a bit further and added a feature that allows me=
=C2=A0 to lubricate my clutch shaft with a grease gun. If you are intereste=
d I can tell about this in another post.=C2=A0
Despite all of these there were still more people than there should have be=
en that were reporting clutch issues. A few years back a couple of sleuths =
uncovered the "dowel" bolts. In the parts lists, there are 2 special bolts =
among the many bolts that mate engine the bell housing.=C2=A0 These are ref=
erred to as "dowel bolts". Williams in his book obliquely mentions "locatin=
g bolts".=C2=A0 If the bell housing is misaligned to the engine even a litt=
le bit, poor clutch performance results. These bolts have larger chanks and=
are located at 2 and 8 O'clock and align the transmission to the engine. I=
f you lose these bolts or don't put them in first than you can have clutch =
issues no matter what you do.=C2=A0 Many folks have installed hardened stee=
l dowels in place of these bolts.=C2=A0=C2=A0
Hopefully, this summary will help you with your clutch replacement.=C2=A0 P=
lease excuse the length of it.=C2=A0 Many folks referred to different aspec=
ts of this story, but I thought it would be good to put it all in one place=
.
Regards-John Cyg70 DamsonCC52927LO
------=_Part_1815149_117691770.1624296081017
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp4ce06f07yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;"><div id=3D"ydp4ce06f07yiv3247099730"><div><div class=3D"ydp4ce06f07yiv32=
47099730yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, A=
rial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir=3D"ltr">"The six cylinder =
car's clutch is not such a happy story and is the Achilles Heel of the 6 cy=
linder cars." So says Roger Williams in his book; <u>How to Restore T=
riumph TR5/250 & TR6</u>.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">I am not going to reproduce that section of the book here, but I will t=
ry to de-mystify this area of the car.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr">The issues center around:</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr">a.) mechanical tolerances/design deficiency.</div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">b.) supersession</div><div dir=3D"ltr">c.) poor documentation</div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The clutch design does not have mu=
ch allowance for wear & tear. Originally a 0.75" Master Cylinder was fi=
tted and this worked well but their were complaints of "heavy clutch" with =
this system. During the 1970 model year, the master cylinder was changed to=
a 0.70" unit. This did soften up the clutch pressure, but now wear and tea=
r deficiencies of the mechanical parts became significant issues causing dr=
ag and partial clutch disengagement. Bushing wear, clutch fork pin wear , c=
ylinder leaks etc. will cause poor performance. </div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The car parts biz is quite dynamic, and=
companies get sold, go out of business, or simply manage the life cycle of=
their products. Part of this is that if they have a slow or small selling =
item, they look around to see if they have another part with greater sales =
that could be use for the slow selling application and they discontinue the=
part for the slow selling application. The original clutch & dri=
ven plate were Laycock units and worked quite well. But Laycock sold =
their clutch business to LUK. LUK stopped making the TR6 Clutch some time a=
go. Enter Borg & Beck. They offered a clutch for the TR6 th=
at I think became a standard. It worked quite well. But in time, they=
saw slow sales for this model and it disappeared from the inventory. B&=
;B used colored paint spots to mark their different pressure plates - I bel=
ieve there was a "Yellow-spot" a "Green-Spot" and a "Blue-spot". I do=
n't recall which one was used on the TR6, but it was discontinued and super=
ceded with one of the other clutches. Should be ok right? It fits rig=
ht? No problem then! Wrong! Wrong because one of these clutches=
was designed for a much heavier vehicle (Van). You want a good tight clutc=
h right? Yes, but excessive spring pressure is very hard on the thrus=
t washers when the clutch is disengaged. Not a good situation. Also i=
t increases pressure on the clutch fork pin and can break it. Anyone who ha=
s ever had a broken clutch fork pin knows what a PITA it is. Then B&B w=
as sold to Delphi and that product line was rationalized with yet another c=
lutch that had "cranked" spring fingers. Another generic parts vendor Quint=
on Hazel also has such a clutch. I have heard mixed reports on this t=
ype, with some folks reporting squealing and other reporting good operation=
. I can only tell you that their original Laycock design was straight=
fingered. Some of the squealing reports seem to be linked with larger thro=
w-out bearings when used with the cranked fingered clutches. Now some=
info about the throw-out bearings.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">The original configuration was an RHP beari=
ng on a bronze carrier that was pinned. A while back reports came out about=
premature failures with the RHP bearings. Either a bad batch of bearing wa=
s made or quality had suffered. It is hard to know what happened, because o=
nce a part like this gets a "black-eye", people move away from them because=
they are such a pain to change, nobody wants to take a chance on it again.=
I am not saying that RHP bearings are good or bad, simply relating w=
hat I have heard. Anecdote - This became an issue for me because I wa=
s a "clutch rider" (head hung in shame). I would sit there at a light=
with my left foot on the clutch and my foot on the brake. After a wh=
ile I began to hear my bearing (an RHP as it turns out) whirring away. =
; So when I pulled the tranny for another project, I decided that I should =
get a new bearing and it would not be an RHP. Now was it a crappy bea=
ring or a crappy driver that was the issue? These things are hard to =
tease apart. There are now a number of brands out there, but I will m=
ention 3. The Koyo bearing was originally designed for a Landcruiser.=
It was larger than the other bearings. Some folks love'em and some f=
olks have reporting squealing. It is true that being a larger bearing=
it is going to take more force to overcome inertia and get it spinning. Th=
ere is another bearing that comes highly recommended called KYK. Never used=
one but would because of this recommendation from a source that I trust. G=
unst has become a dirty name in some quarters of the Triumph community.&nbs=
p; It was hyped as a godsend, and then a few problems were mentioned (hard =
to track down the variables). I will say that the Gust bearings are d=
ifferent in that they are meant to contact the clutch at all times. I=
have put one in my car. I don't know what to expect but I hope for t=
he best. Finally carriers. Bronze carriers have been mentioned =
as preferred. It makes sense as they are useful in circumstances when you h=
ave surface movements in that bronze seems to resist abrasion and not gall.=
Mating the carrier to the bearing is a precision operation. Most of =
us should either buy a bearing that is mated to the carrier or have a good =
machine shop do it for you. "Pinned" refers to a hardened pin that prevents=
the bearing carrier from rotating on the clutch fork pin. This makes sense=
to me as we want to gearing to rotate and not the carrier. I know fo=
lks who have had squealing issue without a pin. Again drilling and installi=
ng an anti-rotation pin is best left to a shop for most of us.</div><div di=
r=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"f=
alse">"Magic Clutch" Kit - Hype or for real? A word about Charles Run=
yon. Charles Runyon, the former proprietor of the Roadster Factory has rece=
ntly passed away. I won't speak ill of the dead except to acknowledge=
that some folks in our community may have got hurt over some of his busine=
ss practices late in his life. I will say that Charles and his compan=
y have been for a very long time, real friends and proponents of our commun=
ity. Charles had noticed that there seemed to be a lot of clutc=
h issues with our cars and some of these issues no doubt blew back on him, =
when new parts he sold didn't fix the issues (remember these problems are h=
ard to tease apart). Being very well connected in the community he was able=
to pull opinions from some of the most knowledgeable folks in our hobby an=
d come of with a serious attempt at rectifying these clutch issues. Charles=
realized that the reliability of the clutch mechanics was as important as =
the clutch components themselves and pulled together a kit of parts that wo=
uld significantly improve the probability of successful clutch repair. =
; So I think it is for real and not hype, that when you do a clutch job you=
should replace everything. It isn't that much more money and it worth the =
extra effort. He also discovered the Sachs clutch. This clutch most r=
esembles the original Laycock clutch design. This is the clutch I have used=
in my car. I have gone a bit further and added a feature that allows=
me to lubricate my clutch shaft with a grease gun. If you are intere=
sted I can tell about this in another post. </div><div dir=3D"ltr" dat=
a-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Despite=
all of these there were still more people than there should have been that=
were reporting clutch issues. A few years back a couple of sleuths uncover=
ed the "dowel" bolts. In the parts lists, there are 2 special bolts among t=
he many bolts that mate engine the bell housing. These are referred t=
o as "dowel bolts". Williams in his book obliquely mentions "locating bolts=
". If the bell housing is misaligned to the engine even a little bit,=
poor clutch performance results. These bolts have larger chanks and are lo=
cated at 2 and 8 O'clock and align the transmission to the engine. If you l=
ose these bolts or don't put them in first than you can have clutch issues =
no matter what you do. Many folks have installed hardened steel dowel=
s in place of these bolts. </div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D=
"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Hopefully, this su=
mmary will help you with your clutch replacement. Please excuse the l=
ength of it. Many folks referred to different aspects of this story, =
but I thought it would be good to put it all in one place.</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false=
">Regards-</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">John Cyg</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">70 Damson</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdi=
r=3D"false">CC52927LO</div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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--===============3564838533191509002==
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