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Karl,
This is a fine mesh original filter on the inside end of the fuel tank=20
exit pipe. It can get clogged with dirt or sufficiently clogged so as=20
to restrict the fuel flow. It is part of the fuel tank and is not=20
designed to be accessed by the user and/or the garage service mechanic.=20
However, modern technology (cameras on the end of wiggly sticks) let you=20
see it.
Cleaning the gunge collected over decades is normally a reverse blow=20
through the fuel pipe but using a 150psi air line can destroy the filter=20
so start off low! You can never tell if you have cleaned it properly or=20
what type of gunge was blocking it so deliberately destroying it was not=20
unknown, especially after trying a couple of times to clear a blocked=20
system. Pushing a stiff length of wire through the filter was a common=20
way of destroying it. I've not known anyone replace an in-tank filter=20
but have known those who destroy it put an in-line fuel filter in the=20
system, usually close to the engine to make it accessible.
Stay well,
Guy R Day
------ Original Message ------
From: "Karl Vacek via Spridgets" <spridgets@autox.team.net>
To: "'Rich Hill'" <ra_hill@icloud.com>
Cc: "'Spridgets'" <Spridgets@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, 23 Jun, 23 At 23:55
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] 78 Midget fuel system
Sure did. It=E2=80=99s a hose between two steel tubes on this car. I=E2=
=80=99ve=20
suspected for years that there was a little leak in one of the (5? 6?)=20
little hoses in the fuel line, so I once again changed them all.
I put a camera into the tank through the filler hole on the top of the=20
tank. The inlet tube is part of the fuel sending unit on this car, and=20
there=E2=80=99s what looks for all the world like a white nylon mesh filter=
with=20
a plastic cage around the inlet tube, as part of the fuel sending unit.=20
Nothing like that in any parts books, not even the BMIHT CD parts book.
This is a California-emissions 1978 car. Not the first thing that=E2=80=99=
s=20
different from the parts books, Moss, etc.
But it=E2=80=99s all okay and air blew through beautifully after I had the =
tank=20
open to look. And now there=E2=80=99s fuel flow to the pump. I don=E2=80=
=99t know =E2=80=93 I=20
didn=E2=80=99t change anything, just looked in there and put the same air h=
ose=20
onto the fuel line as I=E2=80=99d done a couple of times before.
FM Principle
Thanks for the info !!!
Karl
From: Rich Hill [mailto:ra_hill@icloud.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2023 4:15 PM
To: Karl Vacek
Cc: Spridgets
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] 78 Midget fuel system
There=E2=80=99s a section of plastic tubing on the side of the transmission=
.=20
Make sure that=E2=80=99s OK. Although if you=E2=80=99ve replaced all the ho=
ses, you=E2=80=99ve=20
probably done that one.
Rich
=E2=80=9879 Midget
=E2=80=9858 Sprite
On Jun 22, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Karl Vacek <kvacek@ameritech.net=20
=EF=BB=BF
We've had this car since 2006 -almost second owners. About 17,000=20
miles, very original. Jill stopped driving it a couple years ago so I'm=20
renewing everything in preparation for selling it.
It's a 1500 (Spitfire) engine and all the emissions stuff. Which is all=20
there and everything I've checked is working.
We bought it from a kid who owned it for about as month, just putting in=20
the cheapest fuel pump he could find and jamming the wrong size battery=20
between the heater and the firewall. It's always seemed to lose fuel=20
pump prime and needed lots of cranking for the first start after sitting=20
a day or two. I only just now finally replaced each and every hose in=20
the system (not the evap circuits, but for now I've unhooked the evap=20
tank line.
Running with fuel directly to the carb I only got a little spit from the=20
pump, and off the car it seemed dead. Soooo - I bought a good new fuel=20
pump, the one with the infinitely clockable top, which also actually has=20
a filter unlike the POS the kid put on the car. Pump seems to suck but=20
it's still not pulling fuel though the line from the tank even after=20
getting some fuel in the lines and running the engine a few minutes on=20
direct fuel to the carb.
I want to check the rest of the fuel supply system but I cannot remove=20
the feed line from the tank - it's a non-existent size for flare=20
wrenches, Kroil hasn't worked it's usual magic, and my Knipex pliers=20
wrench can't turn the fitting either. Not to the cave man stage yet -=20
this is a very original, rust free car, so I'm not using a pipe wrench=20
or etc.
I want to directly blow through the fuel line to make sure it's clear -=20
blowing from the front with the gas cap off is inconclusive. I'm=20
working alone and I'm just not sure it's passing as much air as it=20
should.
Aside from cutting the line off (really original car that we want to=20
sell as soon as I'm done renewing everything) I'm stuck. I can't really=20
drop the tank (to fill it with water and have at the fitting with=20
serious heat) without destroying the original fuel line.
What is the pickup like in the tank, presumably leading down from the=20
bulkhead fitting to the bottom. No in-tank filter that I see in the=20
parts books.
My last hope is to remove the huge filler hose in the trunk and put a=20
camera in there tomorrow.
Any other suggestions ?
Thanks!
Karl
------------------------
spridgets@autox.team.net
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets=20
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets>=20
http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/grday@btinternet.com=20
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/grday@btinternet.com>
------=_Part_203172_1063576538.1687593869624
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org=
/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xh=
tml"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DUTF-8" /> </head> <body><div class=3D"auto-created-dir-div" dir=3D"auto=
" style=3D"unicode-bidi: embed;"><style>p{margin:0}</style>Karl,<div><p>Thi=
s is a fine mesh original filter on the inside end of the fuel tank exit pi=
pe. It can get clogged with dirt or sufficiently clogged so as to restrict=
the fuel flow. It is part of the fuel tank and is not designed to be acces=
sed by the user and/or the garage service mechanic. However, modern techn=
ology (cameras on the end of wiggly sticks) let you see it. </p><p>Cleanin=
g the gunge collected over decades is normally a reverse blow through the f=
uel pipe but using a 150psi air line can destroy the filter so start off lo=
w! You can never tell if you have cleaned it properly or what type of gung=
e was blocking it so deliberately destroying it was not unknown, especially=
after trying a couple of times to clear a blocked system. Pushing a stiff =
length of wire through the filter was a common way of destroying it. I'=
;ve not known anyone replace an in-tank filter but have known those who des=
troy it put an in-line fuel filter in the system, usually close to the engi=
ne to make it accessible. </p><p><br></p><p>Stay well,</p><p><br></p><p>Gu=
y R Day</p><br><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 2em; border-=
left:2px solid #00ADE5; white-space: pre-wrap "><br><br>------ Original Mes=
sage ------<br>From: "Karl Vacek via Spridgets" <spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net><br>To: "'Rich Hill'" <ra_hill@icloud.c=
om><br>Cc: "'Spridgets'" <Spridgets@autox.team.net&=
gt;<br>Sent: Friday, 23 Jun, 23 At 23:55<br>Subject: Re: [Spridgets] 78 Mid=
get fuel system<br><br><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rg=
b(31,73,125);">Sure did. It=E2=80=99s a hose between two steel tubes on th=
is car. I=E2=80=99ve suspected for years that there was a little leak in o=
ne of the (5? 6?) little hoses in the fuel line, so I once again changed th=
em all.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;f=
ont-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sa=
ns-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">I put a camera into the tank through the f=
iller hole on the top of the tank. The inlet tube is part of the fuel send=
ing unit on this car, and there=E2=80=99s what looks for all the world like=
a white nylon mesh filter with a plastic cage around the inlet tube, as pa=
rt of the fuel sending unit. Nothing like that in any parts books, not eve=
n the BMIHT CD parts book.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"=
> </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-f=
amily: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">This is a California-em=
issions 1978 car. Not the first thing that=E2=80=99s different from the pa=
rts books, Moss, etc. </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-famil=
y: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">But it=E2=80=99s all okay a=
nd air blew through beautifully after I had the tank open to look. And now=
there=E2=80=99s fuel flow to the pump. I don=E2=80=99t know =E2=80=93 I d=
idn=E2=80=99t change anything, just looked in there and put the same air ho=
se onto the fuel line as I=E2=80=99d done a couple of times before.</span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Cal=
ibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color:=
rgb(31,73,125);">FM Principle</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,12=
5);"> </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;fo=
nt-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">Thanks for the info=
!!!</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font=
-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans=
-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">Karl</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,=
73,125);"> </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.0=
pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p><d=
iv><div style=3D"border: none;border-top: solid rgb(181,196,223) 1.0pt;padd=
ing: 3.0pt 0.0in 0.0in 0.0in;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span sty=
le=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;"> Rich Hill [mail=
to:ra_hill@icloud.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 23, 2023 4:15 PM<br><b=
>To:</b> Karl Vacek<br><b>Cc:</b> Spridgets<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Spridge=
ts] 78 Midget fuel system</span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p=
><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There=E2=80=99s a section of plastic tubi=
ng on the side of the transmission. Make sure that=E2=80=99s OK. Although i=
f you=E2=80=99ve replaced all the hoses, you=E2=80=99ve probably done that =
one. </p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">Rich</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9879 Midget</p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9858 Sprite</p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><br><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0p=
t;">On Jun 22, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Karl Vacek <<a href=3D"mailto:kvacek@am=
eritech.net"><span class=3D"wt_Email">kvacek@ameritech.net</span><span></sp=
an></a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5.0pt;margin-b=
ottom: 5.0pt;"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Taho=
ma , sans-serif;">=EF=BB=BF</span> </p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">We'v=
e had this car since 2006 -almost second owners. About 17,000 miles, very =
original. Jill stopped driving it a couple years ago so I'm renewing e=
verything in preparation for selling it.</p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It's a 1500 (Spitfire) engine and a=
ll the emissions stuff. Which is all there and everything I've checked=
is working.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">We bought it from a kid who owned it for about as month, jus=
t putting in the cheapest fuel pump he could find and jamming the wrong siz=
e battery between the heater and the firewall. It's always seemed to l=
ose fuel pump prime and needed lots of cranking for the first start after s=
itting a day or two. I only just now finally replaced each and every hose =
in the system (not the evap circuits, but for now I've unhooked the eva=
p tank line.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Running with fuel directly to the carb I only got a little s=
pit from the pump, and off the car it seemed dead. Soooo - I bought a good=
new fuel pump, the one with the infinitely clockable top, which also actua=
lly has a filter unlike the POS the kid put on the car. Pump seems to suck=
but it's still not pulling fuel though the line from the tank even aft=
er getting some fuel in the lines and running the engine a few minutes on d=
irect fuel to the carb.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I want to check the rest of the fuel supply system=
but I cannot remove the feed line from the tank - it's a non-existent =
size for flare wrenches, Kroil hasn't worked it's usual magic, and =
my Knipex pliers wrench can't turn the fitting either. Not to the cave=
man stage yet - this is a very original, rust free car, so I'm not usi=
ng a pipe wrench or etc. </p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I want to directly blow through the fuel line to=
make sure it's clear - blowing from the front with the gas cap off is =
inconclusive. I'm working alone and I'm just not sure it's pas=
sing as much air as it should.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Aside from cutting the line off (really ori=
ginal car that we want to sell as soon as I'm done renewing everything)=
I'm stuck. I can't really drop the tank (to fill it with water an=
d have at the fitting with serious heat) without destroying the original fu=
el line. </p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">What is the pickup like in the tank, presumably leading down fro=
m the bulkhead fitting to the bottom. No in-tank filter that I see in the =
parts books.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">My last hope is to remove the huge filler hose in the trunk =
and put a camera in there tomorrow.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any other suggestions ? </p></div><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!</p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Karl</p></div></div></div></blockquote></d=
iv></div><hr>------------------------<br>
<br>
<span class=3D"wt_=
Email">spridgets@autox.team.net</span><span></span><br>
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