--===============4001867138859107700==
boundary="----=_Part_497394_536446561.1701802024009"
------=_Part_497394_536446561.1701802024009
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe you are right.=C2=A0 There are design standards regarding the vol=
tage spikes likely to be encountered in a vehicle electrical system and the=
y are quite significant.=C2=A0 All the components (ECU's, electronic contro=
ls, etc) must meet these standards.=C2=A0 The starter is typically the wors=
t-case source of voltage spikes especially on disengagement.
Dave=20
=20
On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 08:02:16 AM CST, Donald H Locker <dhlock=
er@protonmail.com> wrote: =20
=20
=20
And if someone can point me to a reputable site with information to the con=
trary, I'm open to changing my mind.
=20
Thank you all,
Donald.
=20
On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker wrote:
=20
=20
I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is nothing (that I kno=
w of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by providing or acceptin=
g a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to + and - to -).
=20
The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the cables and clamps=
have significant resistance. That is the big reason that the "dead" batter=
y needs to be connected for a period of time before cranking. (I usually wa=
it 30 sec (longer in winter); not very long, but it really doesn't take muc=
h to bring a dead battery up to sufficient charge.)
=20
The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems are amazing; =
I've helped design and test quite a few of them. Protection is built in to =
every component against: over-voltage; reverse connection; shorts to ground=
; shorts to power. The battery itself is a very simple electrochemical devi=
ce that _can_ be damaged, but it's difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -2=
0F if significantly discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the=
most common problem.
=20
Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly (+ to + and -=
to -), there is almost no way to damage either of the vehicles' systems.
=20
Donald.
=20
On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair wrote:
=20
=20
I come to the well of knowledge looking for information. =C2=A0 My sis=
ter just emailed me about her having a friend jump start her late model Lex=
is from his F150 pickup.=C2=A0 He got her started and then drove his truck =
to someplace and parked it.=C2=A0 When he tried to start it, it wouldn't st=
art.=C2=A0 He had it towed to a dealership and they said his battery was fr=
ied. =C2=A0 In my sister's email she said that she has found out that y=
ou shouldn't jump start a car made from 2000 on. =C2=A0 My question is =
why and how do you start a car with a dead battery? =C2=A0 I realize th=
at the jumping car should be running, so that gives the possiblity of too m=
uch current being drawn from the jumping car as it's got a good battery and=
an alternator capable of putting out well over 100A!=C2=A0 So the jumped c=
ar's dead battery looks like a short circuit.=C2=A0 Bad - lots of current! =
=C2=A0 So disconnecting the dead battery and putting it on a battery ch=
arger to give it a more controlled charge should be OK. But that's not ea=
sy to do in a parking lot. =C2=A0 What about these jump boxes, especial=
ly the little ones like =20
https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-=
Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-=
Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=3Dtrue
=20
But that is supposedly capable of 1500A!!!=C2=A0
=20
I did a google search on the subject and found an article talking about all=
the problems that you can have doing this.=C2=A0 But the article really di=
dn't say if these problems were to the jumping or the jumped car or both.
=20
So what is the collective knowledge about this?=C2=A0 What am I missing?
=20
JohnT,
=20
John T. Blair=C2=A0 WA4OHZ=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 email:=C2=A0 jblair1948=
@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Phone:=C2=A0 (757) 495-8229 =
=C2=A0 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 75 Bricklin SV1 (#088=
7)=C2=A0=C2=A0 48 TR1800=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 48 #4 Midget=C2=A0=C2=A0 65 & =
77 Spitfire=C2=A0=C2=A0 71 Saab Sonett III=C2=A0=C2=A0 65 Rambler Classic=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 65 Volvo P1800 =C2=A0 Morgan:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://aut=
ox.team.net/morgan/ Bricklin:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://www.bricklin=
.org =C2=A0 =20
If you can read this=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Thank a teacher!=20
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
=C2=A0 =20
>From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In God We Trust=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Liberty - the=C2=A0 power=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 choosing=
,=C2=A0 thinking,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 acting=C2=A0 for=C2=A0 =20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 oneself; freedom=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 control=C2=
=A0 or=C2=A0 restriction=C2=A0 =20
=20
=20
=20
_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive
ssey@cs.com
=20
------=_Part_497394_536446561.1701802024009
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpf77661cdyahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I believe you are right. There are des=
ign standards regarding the voltage spikes likely to be encountered in a ve=
hicle electrical system and they are quite significant. All the compo=
nents (ECU's, electronic controls, etc) must meet these standards. Th=
e starter is typically the worst-case source of voltage spikes especially o=
n disengagement.<br></div><div><br></div><div class=3D"ydpf77661cdsignature=
"><div style=3D"color: black; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font=
-stretch: normal; font-size: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial,=
Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size-adjust: none;"><div style=3D"color: black=
; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size:=
12pt; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font=
-size-adjust: none;"><div><font size=3D"4">Dave <br></font></div><div><span=
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"><br></span>=
</div><br></div></div></div></div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydp784edf4yahoo_quoted_2397747660" class=3D"ydp784=
edf4yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 08:02:16 AM CST, Donald =
H Locker <dhlocker@protonmail.com> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414"><div>
<p>And if someone can point me to a reputable site with information
to the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind.</p>
<p>Thank you all,<br clear=3D"none">
Donald.<br clear=3D"none">
</p>
<div id=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414yqt45137" class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv55965=
10414yqt5519028502"><div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414moz-cite-prefix">O=
n 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker
wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
</blockquote></div></div><div id=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414yqt07550" =
class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414yqt5519028502"><div><p>I think someone is p=
ulling someone else's leg. There is nothing
(that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by
providing or accepting a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to
+ and - to -).</p>
<p>The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the
cables and clamps have significant resistance. That is the big
reason that the "dead" battery needs to be connected for a
period of time before cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer
in winter); not very long, but it really doesn't take much to
bring a dead battery up to sufficient charge.)</p>
<p>The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems
are amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them.
Protection is built in to every component against: over-voltage;
reverse connection; shorts to ground; shorts to power. The
battery itself is a very simple electrochemical device that
_can_ be damaged, but it's difficult: freezing (-40F if charged;
-20F if significantly discharged); reverse charging; mechanical
damage is the most common problem.</p>
<p>Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly
(+ to + and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either of
the vehicles' systems.</p>
<p>Donald.<br clear=3D"none">
</p>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-11-30 1=
7:12, JohnT Blair
wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
</blockquote></div><div><div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414defaul=
t-style"> I come to the well of knowledge
looking for information. </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> My sister just=
emailed me about her
having a friend jump start her late model Lexis from his F150
pickup. He got her started and then drove his truck to
someplace and parked it. When he tried to start it, it
wouldn't start. He had it towed to a dealership and they sa=
id
his battery was fried. </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> In my sister's=
email she said that
she has found out that you shouldn't jump start a car made
from 2000 on. </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> My question is=
why and how do you
start a car with a dead battery? </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> I realize that=
the jumping car
should be running, so that gives the possiblity of too much
current being drawn from the jumping car as it's got a good
battery and an alternator capable of putting out well over
100A! So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a short
circuit. Bad - lots of current! </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> So disconnecti=
ng the dead battery
and putting it on a battery charger to give it a more
controlled charge should be OK. </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> But that's not=
easy to do in a
parking lot. </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> What about the=
se jump boxes,
especially the little ones like </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414io-ox-signature">
<p class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"><a shape=3D"rec=
t" href=3D"https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Pea=
k-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-=
Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=3Dtrue" class=3D"ydp784edf4y=
iv5596510414moz-txt-link-freetext" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https=
://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-S=
tarter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-L=
ED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=3Dtrue</a></p>
<p class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style">But that is sup=
posedly capable of
1500A!!! </p>
<p class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style">I did a google =
search on the subject
and found an article talking about all the problems that you
can have doing this. But the article really didn't say if
these problems were to the jumping or the jumped car or
both.</p>
<p class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style">So what is the =
collective knowledge
about this? What am I missing?</p>
<p class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style">JohnT,</p>
<p class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<span style=3D"font-family:tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
;">John
T. Blair WA4OHZ email: <a=
shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:jblair1948@cox.net"; class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv55=
96510414moz-txt-link-abbreviated ydp784edf4yiv5596510414moz-txt-link-freete=
xt" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">jblair1948@cox.net</a></span></p>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> Va. Beach, V=
a &n=
bsp;
Phone: (757) 495-8229 </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div=
>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> 65 Morgan 4/=
4 Series V (B1106)
75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 48 TR1800 =
48 #4 Midget </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> 65 & 77 =
Spitfire 71 Saab
Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic 65 Volvo =
P1800 </div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div=
>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> Morgan: =
; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/morgan/"; clas=
s=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414moz-txt-link-freetext" rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/morgan/</a>
</div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> Bricklin:&nb=
sp; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.bricklin.org/"; c=
lass=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414moz-txt-link-freetext" rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://www.bricklin.org</a>
</div>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div=
>
<p>If you can read this =
- Thank a teacher! <br clear=3D"none">
<span style=3D"font-family:tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
;">If
you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!</span></p>
<div class=3D"ydp784edf4yiv5596510414default-style"> </div=
>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-seri=
f;">From
Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:</span> <br clear=3D"non=
e">
<span style=3D"font-family:tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
;">
e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."</span> <br clear=3D"none">
<span style=3D"font-family:tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
;">
In God We Trust</span> <br clear=3D"none">
<span style=3D"font-family:tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
;">
Liberty - the power of choosing, thin=
king, and
acting for </span> <br clear=3D"none">
<span style=3D"font-family:tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
;"> =
oneself; freedom from control or rest=
riction </span>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</p>
</div>
=20
=20
</div></div></div><div class=3D"ydp784edf4yqt5519028502" id=3D"ydp784edf4yq=
t14227">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><=
br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net=
" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a><br clear=
=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html=
" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br=
clear=3D"none">Suggested annual donation $12.96<br clear=3D"none">Ar=
chive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk"; r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</=
a> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"nofollow=
" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br clear=3D"none"><br=
clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey@cs.com" rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey@=
cs.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>
------=_Part_497394_536446561.1701802024009--
--===============4001867138859107700==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
--===============4001867138859107700==--
|