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I got into a discussion on a Mustang forum when I posted I wanted to
swap batteries without losing all my radio and other presets (I would
have connected another battery in parallel). People on the forum brought
up Fords's 'BMS;' which was new turf to this old dog. There are,
apparently, some possible issues with this system (the Mustang has them
too). In the end, I pulled an Elon--'F-it'--and just swapped the
batteries like I always have and only lost the settings for my custom
drive mode. I think it possible that some who don't understand the BMS
may have started this rumor; I suspect you can damage these somehow but
a simple jump shouldn't do it as you're not passing any current through
it (unless you connect to a hot lead somewhere). The only modification
to this time-proven technique--jumping a car--is you're now admonished
to hook ground to the chassis somewhere instead of the common battery
terminal, which I've always assumed was to avoid a spark which could
ignite any lingering H2 gas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A
bs
On 12/1/2023 4:22 AM, Donald H Locker wrote:
>
> And if someone can point me to a reputable site with information to
> the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind.
>
> Thank you all,
> Donald.
>
> On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker wrote:
>>
>> I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is nothing (that
>> I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by providing
>> or accepting a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to + and - to -).
>>
>> The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the cables and
>> clamps have significant resistance. That is the big reason that the
>> "dead" battery needs to be connected for a period of time before
>> cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer in winter); not very long,
>> but it really doesn't take much to bring a dead battery up to
>> sufficient charge.)
>>
>> The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems are
>> amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them. Protection
>> is built in to every component against: over-voltage; reverse
>> connection; shorts to ground; shorts to power. The battery itself is
>> a very simple electrochemical device that _can_ be damaged, but it's
>> difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -20F if significantly
>> discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the most common
>> problem.
>>
>> Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly (+ to +
>> and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either of the vehicles'
>> systems.
>>
>> Donald.
>>
>> On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair wrote:
>>> I come to the well of knowledge looking for information.
>>> My sister just emailed me about her having a friend jump start her
>>> late model Lexis from his F150 pickup. He got her started and then
>>> drove his truck to someplace and parked it. When he tried to start
>>> it, it wouldn't start. He had it towed to a dealership and they
>>> said his battery was fried.
>>> In my sister's email she said that she has found out that you
>>> shouldn't jump start a car made from 2000 on.
>>> My question is why and how do you start a car with a dead battery?
>>> I realize that the jumping car should be running, so that gives the
>>> possiblity of too much current being drawn from the jumping car as
>>> it's got a good battery and an alternator capable of putting out
>>> well over 100A! So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a short
>>> circuit. Bad - lots of current!
>>> So disconnecting the dead battery and putting it on a battery
>>> charger to give it a more controlled charge should be OK.
>>> But that's not easy to do in a parking lot.
>>> What about these jump boxes, especially the little ones like
>>>
>>> https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true
>>>
>>> But that is supposedly capable of 1500A!!!
>>>
>>> I did a google search on the subject and found an article talking
>>> about all the problems that you can have doing this. But the
>>> article really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping or
>>> the jumped car or both.
>>>
>>> So what is the collective knowledge about this? What am I missing?
>>>
>>> JohnT,
>>>
>>>
>>> John T. Blair WA4OHZ    email: jblair1948@cox.net
>>>
>>> Va. Beach, Va Phone:Â (757) 495-8229
>>> 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) Â 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)Â Â 48
>>> TR1800Â Â Â 48 #4 Midget
>>> 65 & 77 Spitfire  71 Saab Sonett III  65 Rambler Classic  65
>>> Volvo P1800
>>> Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/
>>> Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org
>>>
>>> If you can read this            - Thank a teacher!
>>> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>>>
>>> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>>> Â Â Â Â e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>>> Â Â Â Â In God We Trust
>>>     Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting
>>> for
>>> oneself; freedom from control or restriction
>>>
>>>
>
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I got into a discussion on a Mustang forum when I posted I wanted to
swap batteries without losing all my radio and other presets (I
would have connected another battery in parallel). People on the
forum brought up Fords's 'BMS;' which was new turf to this old dog.
There are, apparently, some possible issues with this system (the
Mustang has them too). In the end, I pulled an Elon--'F-it'--and
just swapped the batteries like I always have and only lost the
settings for my custom drive mode. I think it possible that some who
don't understand the BMS may have started this rumor; I suspect you
can damage these somehow but a simple jump shouldn't do it as you're
not passing any current through it (unless you connect to a hot lead
somewhere). The only modification to this time-proven
technique--jumping a car--is you're now admonished to hook ground to
the chassis somewhere instead of the common battery terminal, which
I've always assumed was to avoid a spark which could ignite any
lingering H2 gas.<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A";>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A</a><br>
<br>
bs<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/1/2023 4:22 AM, Donald H Locker
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e5384526-49a1-4fb2-bb8a-5df63705a81e@protonmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>And if someone can point me to a reputable site with
information to the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind.</p>
<p>Thank you all,<br>
Donald.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:bf47de2d-ae42-466a-9a86-4c4d03494b5d@protonmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is
nothing (that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be
"fried" by providing or accepting a jump, provide it's done
properly (+ to + and - to -).</p>
<p>The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the
cables and clamps have significant resistance. That is the big
reason that the "dead" battery needs to be connected for a
period of time before cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer
in winter); not very long, but it really doesn't take much to
bring a dead battery up to sufficient charge.)</p>
<p>The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems
are amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them.
Protection is built in to every component against:
over-voltage; reverse connection; shorts to ground; shorts to
power. The battery itself is a very simple electrochemical
device that _can_ be damaged, but it's difficult: freezing
(-40F if charged; -20F if significantly discharged); reverse
charging; mechanical damage is the most common problem.</p>
<p>Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly
(+ to + and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either
of the vehicles' systems.</p>
<p>Donald.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<div class="default-style"> I come to the well of knowledge
looking for information. </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> My sister just emailed me about
her having a friend jump start her late model Lexis from his
F150 pickup. He got her started and then drove his truck to
someplace and parked it. When he tried to start it, it
wouldn't start. He had it towed to a dealership and they
said his battery was fried. </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> In my sister's email she said that
she has found out that you shouldn't jump start a car made
from 2000 on. </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> My question is why and how do you
start a car with a dead battery? </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> I realize that the jumping car
should be running, so that gives the possiblity of too much
current being drawn from the jumping car as it's got a good
battery and an alternator capable of putting out well over
100A! So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a short
circuit. Bad - lots of current! </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> So disconnecting the dead battery
and putting it on a battery charger to give it a more
controlled charge should be OK. </div>
<div class="default-style"> But that's not easy to do in a
parking lot. </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> What about these jump boxes,
especially the little ones like </div>
<div class="io-ox-signature">
<p class="default-style"><a
href="https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true";
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true</a></p>
<p class="default-style">But that is supposedly capable of
1500A!!! </p>
<p class="default-style">I did a google search on the
subject and found an article talking about all the
problems that you can have doing this. But the article
really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping or
the jumped car or both.</p>
<p class="default-style">So what is the collective knowledge
about this? What am I missing?</p>
<p class="default-style">JohnT,</p>
<p class="default-style"><br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">John T.
Blair WA4OHZ    email: <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:jblair1948@cox.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">jblair1948@cox.net</a></span></p>
<div class="default-style"> Va. Beach, Va            Â
   Â
Phone:Â (757) 495-8229 </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) Â
 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)  48 TR1800   48 #4 Midget Â
</div>
<div class="default-style"> 65 & 77 Spitfire  71 Saab
Sonett III  65 Rambler Classic  65 Volvo P1800 </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> Morgan:Â Â Â <a
href="http://autox.team.net/morgan/";
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/morgan/</a>
</div>
<div class="default-style"> Bricklin:Â Â Â Â <a
href="http://www.bricklin.org/"; moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.bricklin.org</a>
</div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<p>If you can read this            - Thank a teacher!
<br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">If you are
reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!</span></p>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<p><span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">From Dennis
Prager - The American Trilogy:</span> <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Â Â Â Â e
pluribus Unum, "from many, one."</span> <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Â Â Â Â In God
We Trust</span> <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Â Â Â Â Liberty
- the power of choosing, thinking, and actingÂ
for </span> <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;">Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
oneself; freedom from control or restriction </span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
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