Skip and list
Regarding tire failures including Earl Woodens. His tires had two grooves
down the center of the tire about 1 inch apart. We spent a lot of time doing
the investigation from the point on the salt where the first indication of
the problem began. There was a strip of rubber about 10 inches long that
came off the tire starting the delamination leading up to the failure.
The groove in the tire may well have been the whole problem as to the
failure. Any cracking at the bottom of the groove can propagate rather fast
once it starts under centrifugal force and loading added along with salt
being forced into the crack. In effect this becomes a hydraulic
problem by the salt being packed under the surface.
Vesco, Teague, Burkland,White and others all run smooth surface tires, no
grooves at all. True, there has been some signs of blistering on all tires
including the Nascar type used by some. I am not a tire expert and have said
so in the past but I have seen many problems at the lakes and on the salt
and the grooved tires and the wider Nascar tires have been problems.
Loading, air pressure and care of the tires is very important. Towing the
vehicle back from the other end of a run just adds to the wear of the tire.
A lot of the racers are mounting aux. wheel assemblies to the rear of the
race car and pulling the elevated front of the vehicle back to the pits. It
sure does save the wear and tear of the tire, drive train and some one
having to ride the vehicle back.
Take a look around the pits and see some innovative applications they have
come up with. Lots of neat ideas.
Glen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Higginbotham Land Speed Racing" <saltrat@pro-blend.com>
To: "rtmack" <RTMACK@pop3.concentric.net>; <land-speed@autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Tire reliabilty, and traction control
> @#%$&*( trailers
>
>
> Russ,
> I don't think I said anything different about slippage. At least I didn't
> mean to (still think 15% slippage is real). Just commented on my take on
> the tire failure mode. I don't see slippage at the salt causing tire
> failure. I believe that tire failure there is caused by overloading. Tire
> slippage at the salt only decreases potential speed.
> Examples of tires to study might be Don Vesco's and Bonner Denton's mod
> along with Earl's failed tire if it is still available. These are the only
> failures that I know of that can be classified as catastrophic or
> semi-catastrophic. The rear tires on "Rose" show wear signs (15 passes)
but
> I think they are safe. We could try to contact Joe Law and see if he would
> participate.
>
> On TC use: let's test and see if there is any difference in performance.
> Then the discussion may be moot. Also it should apply to Special
> Construction only (at first).
>
> Others out there interested in tire analysis? If so, let us know.
>
> Skip (Busy untwisting my tail! My attention was on this last year too)
>
>
> At 12:33 PM 12/1/01 -0600, you wrote:
> >Skip:
> >There may be some cases of tire failure that are purely a function of
> >overload--
> >God knows some of our racers manage to load the hell out of them. But
you
> >were the
> >first one who told me (before I had ever turned a wrench on "the Rose")
that
> >many
> >of the fastest LSR cars had to deal with about "15% wheelspin". I don't
> >understand
> >why you are saying something different now. And based on my own
examination
> >(and,
> >admittedly marginal expertise)-- I believe that the drive tires on the
very
> >fast
> >lakester pitted near us showed evidence of spinning. There were abrasion
> >marks,
> >for one thing-- and some cord showing through where the surface had
abraded
> >away.
> >Abrasion marks come from spinning the tires. There was also a little
> >blistering,
> >and bare places where it appeared that blisters had popped-off. As you
know,
> >blisters come from heat. Heat (usually) comes from spinning the tires.
We
> >know
> >that that car seems to have the ability to really load the drive tires--
so
> >overload may have been a contributing factor (as it may have been in Earl
> >Wooden's
> >case)-- but seeing the tire abraded down to the cord suggests to me that
the
> >main
> >factor is probably wheelspin.
> >Yes, it would be better to get the opinion of a real expert, rather than
just
> >exchanging opposing hot rodder opinions. Shouldn't be hard to find
someone
> >with
> >sufficient expertise in tire failure modes and post-failure analysis. I
> >probably
> >bump into one or two at any CART race I work. Can we get a
representative
> >sample
> >of (recently) failed tire carcasses? If so, I would be willing to try
to
> >recruit
> >an appropriate expert to our cause.
> >
> >There is nothing here that I see as a valid arguement why racers in
> non-vintage
> >classes should not be allowed to use TC, if they want to.
> >Russ
> >
> >
> >Skip Higginbotham wrote:
> >
> >> Russ,
> >> So how about some failure analysis? How can we do that? Others have had
> >> tire failures that have not gone 300 even....this year....on new tires.
> >> Excessive loading and load deflection? I think it is a real possibility
> >> that needs proving or disproving. I think we will find little or no
tire
> >> slippage and yet tires coming apart. How about it?
> >> Skip
>
> ///
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