land-speed
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Re: Rear wheel steering

To: john robinson <john@engr.wisc.edu>, Jon Hobden <Jon.Hobden@rdel.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rear wheel steering
From: Wester S Potter <wspotter@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:40:08 -0700
Just think of it as driving a car in reverse ...things do happen faster.
Wes
----------
> From: john robinson <john@engr.wisc.edu> 
> To: Jon Hobden <Jon.Hobden@rdel.co.uk> 
> CC: Land-speed@autox.team.net 
> Subject: Re: Rear wheel steering 
> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:07:32 -0500 
> 
>Howdy,
>          I think the main difference in a Rear Wheel Steer vehicle while 
>doing course corrections, is the lack of perceived motion in the desired 
>direction; because the rear of the vehicle is going in the opposite 
>direction (vehicle tail goes left while the driver wants the direction of 
>the vehicle to be going right), which is opposite to the "normal" driving 
>feel. The comment of driving to a correction indicator is not bad, a long 
>painted line on the hood in conjunction with a pressure probe attached to 
>the nose which would effectively lengthen the nose of the vehicle, giving 
>the driver a long pointer to view the actual direction of the vehicle, 
>especially if the driver is as far back in the vehicle as possible. I 
>believe a RWS vehicle comes down to driver adaptability/skill, more than 
>the dynamics of FWS vs. RWS..
>
>(the rear wheels skid to the outside of the turn in a "normal" Front Wheel 
>Steer) while in a RWS
>
>At 09:55 AM 6/7/00 , you wrote:
>
>>A picture is worth a thousand.......
>>
>>Having thought about this some more, Jon, you're right about kid's toys
and
>>what you are brought up on, as I said a few days ago, boats (and for that
>>matter most aeroplanes) manage by steering from the wrong end.
>>
>>The problem with rear steer is that it requires anticipation (and a blind
>>faith in the future) on the part of the driver.   Consider a car off the
>>desired centre line, within the limitations of the character set (you'll
>>need to select a monospaced font for this like Courier or Lucida):
>>
>>(For the example we'll assume a simple reverse tricycle for the rear
steer,
>>I can't cope with trying to get offset rears to look right)
>>You start a fair way offline, and turn towards the line:
>>
>>                 |                     |
>>                 |                     |
>>  +-------+      |       +-------+     |
>>  | /   / |      |       | |   | |     |
>>  |       |      |       |       |     |
>>  |       |      |       |       |     |
>>  |       |      |       |       |     |
>>  |       |      |       |       |     |
>>  |       |      |       |       |     |
>>  | |   | |      |       |   \   |     |
>>  +-------+      |       +-------+     |
>>                 |                     |
>>                 |                     |
>>
>>
>>Once heading back towards the line you straighten up
>>
>>          /           |         /           |
>>         / /          |        / /          |
>>        /      / /    |       /      / /    |
>>       /        /     |      /        /     |
>>      /        /      |     /        /      |
>>     /        /       |    /        /       |
>>    /        /        |   /        /        |
>>   /  /     /         |  /    /   /         |
>>         / /          |          /          |
>>          /           |         /           |
>>
>>
>>This is where it gets to be different.
>>With a front steer you basically get to the line and point the wheels down
>>it (obviously there's a progression, but you get the idea).
>>With rear steer, you need to correct BEFORE you are aligned (like turning
>>the back of a boat in against the dock).
>>
>>             |                         |
>>             |                         |
>>          /  |                  /      |
>>         / |                   / /     |
>>        /      | /            /      / /
>>       /        /            /        /|
>>      /        /            /        / |
>>     /        /            /        /  |
>>    /        /            /        /   |
>>   /  /     /|           /    -   /    |
>>         / / |                   /     |
>>          /  |                  /      |
>>             |                         |
>>             |                         |
>>(sorry about the "-" for the rear wheel, but there's nothing between that
>>and "/" in the character set - I'm sure you get the idea)
>>
>>
>>Once you're back online, everything's hunky dory:
>>
>>      |                      |
>>      |                      |
>>  +-------+              +-------+
>>  | |   | |              | |   | |
>>  |       |              |       |
>>  |       |              |       |
>>  |       |              |       |
>>  |       |              |       |
>>  |       |              |       |
>>  | |   | |              |   |   |
>>  +-------+              +-------+
>>      |                      |
>>      |                      |
>>
>>
>>Except that you have to effectively anticipate the correction to each
minor
>>deviation in the same way.   I'm sure you could condition yourself to it,
>>but at the end of the day is it worth learning a whole new driving style?
>>   It's also worth noting that neither boats or planes are so concerned
>>about accurately following a line;  they concern themselves only with the
>>next waypoint, so maybe in today's non-SA GPS era the solution is in
>>driving to a correction indicator rather than what you see out of the
>>window.
>>
>>It's all very well my saying all this - the likelihood of ever having to
>>prove it is zero.   Good luck to any of you guys who have the ability,
>>money and commitment to actually try any of this out.
>>
>>
>>Jon Hobden
>>Horley, England
>
>
>              John Robinson, Mechanician
>   Mechanical Engineering University of Wisconsin
>                 1513 University Ave.
>                  Madison, Wi. 53706
>                     608-262-3606
>                   FAX 608-265-2316
>       Current World Land Speed Record Holder
>                Bonneville Salt Flats
>            H/GCC 92 cu.in. 1980 Dodge Colt
>                  131.333 MPH set 1995
>                  136.666 MPH set 1996
>
>
>



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