First they must pass tech, and I don't think they follow the safety rules we do.
Glen
Jonathan Amo wrote:
> Malcom,
>
> First off here is my quarters worth that is made of of 20 pennies and a
>nickel,
> Malcom I truly believe that you are sniffling over what you have yet to
>accomplish
> a land speed record. Either FIA or any other sanctioning body. I cant believe
>you
> would take away in some cases a lifetime dream, and the history of the
>Bonneville
> Salt Flats, and the participants. These times, and speeds have always been
> recognized as World Land Speed Records, and the titles from the successful
>people
> at Bonneville should not be taken away. Im just wondering if you have some of
>the
> "we are better than you" feeling going on. I believe that if you were allowed
>to
> run at bonneville with your vehicle, and you set a record according to the
> sanctioning body that runs the events at Speedweek, World Finals, etc. etc
>you too
> would be claiming a world land speed record too, you wouldn't be claiming a
>local
> record in the USA.
> I would sure like you to come to the USA and Bonneville, and tell the people
>that
> have been out there for over 40 years running at Bonneville and tell them
>their
> "World Land Speed Records" are garbage and arent recognized by anyone other
>than
> stateside
> I guess I threw in a few more pennies that I found in the cushions of the
>couch
>
> Jonathan Amo
>
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>
> > Right on Wes, I couldn't have said it better
> > Glen Barrett
> > Chief Timer SCTA/BNI and proud of it.
> >
> > Wester S Potter wrote:
> >
> > > Malcolm, List,
> > > This always reminds me of the ball games when I was a kid when the one who
> > > owned the ball got mad about something and took his ball and went home.
> > > The honor has generally gone out of the International record claiming game
> > > unless we all accept the same rules.
> > > Accurate records are established as accurate timing equipment is used.
>When
> > > Teddy Tetzlaff first ran on the Bonneville Salt Flats in 1914 his runs
>were
> > > timed by a group of men holding stop watches. His stop watch timed speed
> > > was marginally faster than the same car had gone at Daytona (or Ormond
> > > Beach) four years previously ... in the 147 MPH plus range. I have no
> > > knowledge of how the car was timed at Daytona. The American Automobile
> > > Association disallowed the Bonneville timing because they didn't accept
> > > times using a stopwatch under ten miles or one hour in time.
> > > When Ab Jenkins, Malcolm Campbell, George E. T. Eyston and John Cobb were
> > > fighting it out for flying mile and endurance records in the thirties on
>the
> > > salt, their timing was accepted by all parties involved including the AAA
> > > and USAC who timed and certified those records. This was because they
>were
> > > all running at the same approximate time of year on the same course and
>each
> > > was observing the others times and runs.
> > > When Otto Crocker timed the runs at Bonneville Speed Week in the early
> > > years, all the hot rod competetors accepted his times for the same reason.
> > > The Salt Lake City Chamber of Commerce who staged the races accepted his
> > > equipment.
> > > With the advent of computer timing and the available print-outs it depends
> > > on the certification of the accuracy of the computer. We use a software
> > > program for USFRA that is a slight modification of the one used by NHRA to
> > > time drag racing. We could give reaction times, times for any distance
> > > along the course, entry qualifying trap times, kilo, mile, exit trap
>times
> > > and any combination of the above. All we have to do is accurately set up
> > > the electric eyes, distances and wire. SCTA/BNI clocks use software that
> > > gives the same accurate kind of readouts.
> > > At one time the AAA, USAC, FIA and other governing bodies owned the only
> > > certified clocks and were used for record runs because they were accepted
>by
> > > all involved. Today my nine year old neighbor could write a software
> > > program with a speed break down to several decimal points more accurate
>than
> > > their timers were. The FIA officials who certify record runs just look at
> > > the set up and say OK. They don't even own clocks to time runs on the
>salt!
> > > The whole world of speed claims is academic unless there is the HONOR
> > > involved among racers running at different times on different courses to
>use
> > > accurate equipment, measurements and to follow accepted timing practice
>and
> > > procedures.
> > > Let the FIA play with their multi-million dollar Formula 1 toys and
> > > politics. Who cares that they don't attempt to be up to date enough to
>have
> > > defined classes for various body styles, fuels etc.? Other than respect
>for
> > > Andy Green and the whole Thrust program for what they acomplished, does
> > > their wingless airplane record change anything essential with wheel driven
> > > racing? It's a lot like asking someone else to critique your bedroom
> > > activities or asking an official from a Rugby federation to take over the
> > > NFL. Who needs them? We don't want someone like Bernie Ecclestone (sp?)
> > > sticking his nose in land-speed racing just as the FIA doesn't want Gary
> > > Allen or Mike Manghelli trying to dictate to their sport. If Nolan
>White's
> > > 442 MPH time was clocked either two ways or two times as conditions
> > > permitted, on accurate equipment ( and I believe it was ), would Al
>Teague
> > > and Bill Summers and Don Vesco recognize his run as a wheel driven record?
> > > Would Andy Green ?
> > > If the racers on Lake Gairdner, Australia this March turn in some
> > > incredible, faster than existing record, times will the 200 MPH Club,
> > > SCTA/BNI and USFRA recognize those times or more importantly will their
> > > amateur land-speed racing peers in the USA?
> > > That's my quarters worth.
> > > Wes Potter ... speaking only as an involved watcher of land speed racing
>for
> > > over fifty years.
> > > ----------
> > > > From: Malcolm Pittwood <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
> > > > To: "Land-speed@autox.team.net" <Land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > Subject: On line chat topic
> > > > Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:38:42 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Hi everyone,
> > > >Due to the time difference with Britain I will not be able to join the 3
>am
> > > >chat with a working day to follow.
> > > >Just to help the topic of BNI/SCTA/USFRA times for runs, working time in
> > > >impound and FIM & FIA record attempts, heres by two pence worth.
> > > >If your club or sanctioning body is not an affiliated body of the FIA or
> > > >FIM then why worry what you call your records. To these two World
> > > >governing bodies you are just running club events for "local" records -
> > > >that may offend some of your organisers and many of the racers but that
>is
> > > >how they are seen. Remember there is no differentiation by body style in
> > > >their rules, only capacity divisions. Your 'local' record in the classes
> > > >may be faster than the FIA or FIM listings but these two bodies will
>never
> > > >ever acknowledge them as International/World records.
> > > >On four wheels, as Mike Jenkins explained last week there is only one
> > > >"World Record" - the Thrust SSC outright speed of 763.035 mph. On two
> > > >wheels there are FIA World Records for ALL capacity classes for the
> > > >variety of distances and duration records.
> > > >ACCUS is one USA based FIM affiliated organisation as is USAC but I do
>not
> > > >know if they have any input into anything other than individual ouright
> > > >records. Perhaps someone could explain from your side of the pond why
>they
> > > >are not at Bonneville ? The AMA is the USA motorcycle affiliated body
>and
> > > >they seem to interact only with the "Land Speed Authority" organisation.
> > > >Is that so ?
> > > >The 'four hour maintenance working rule' in impound makes little sense to
> > > >me, as the return run to achieve a record is the day following the first
> > > >pass any way.
> > > >The FIA 1 hour ruling and the FIM 2 hour ruling for 1 mile timed
>distances,
> > > >is to ensure that the two runs occur in (almost) stable conditions on one
> > > >day - much more difficult to do ? Because little work is allowed by
>either
> > > >sanctioning body except general safety checks and maintenance on the
> > > >vehicle between runs you do not need time to "rebuild the vehicle from
>the
> > > >ground up".
> > > >With strong comments expressed on the list I do not expect to see any
> > > >changes in the way the USA do things in general at Bonneville meetings.
> > > >Some US racers will dip deep into their pockets to get International
> > > >(FIA/FIM) recognition because they can rightly be compared directly with
> > > >the best of the past. Brits will come across to your US deserts to set
> > > >World Records in their own events. Bonneville Speed Week will continue
> > > >for another 50 years as a wonderful sporting event. Can anyone see this
> > > >changing ?
> > > >Have a good chat tonight.
> > > >Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England.
> > > >
> > > >
|