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Hi all, thanks for your thoughts Al; things that many (most?) of us have =
thought about. I was with you until the last paragraph. I have always =
been of a mind with Austin-Healeys (Healeys) that there are enough of =
them around (well, excluding a few rare models), that I have never been =
offended when somebody customizes them to suit their own tastes. I feel =
differently with rare cars as I think there is some obligation on behalf =
of those owners to preserve some history, but I don=E2=80=99t feel that =
way about Healeys. I had a number of =E2=80=9Cdiscussions=E2=80=9D with =
Rich Chrysler about this and as many of you know he was an uber-ardent =
supporter of complete originality; they were =
=E2=80=9Cinteresting=E2=80=9D discussions!
=20
However, for me, owning and driving a Healey (I am a second owner and =
have had my BT7 for 50 years in a few months) goes beyond what it looks =
like or its mediocre performance and questionable handling (mine is bog =
stock). There is an indefinable =E2=80=9Cessence of Healey=E2=80=9D =
that I love. At some point, as the number of modifications increase, it =
becomes, for me, less of a Healey. I enjoy its quirks. If I wanted a =
safe, reliable better performing hobby car, I would buy one. If my =
Healey lets me down on the road, and it rarely has, I have confidence =
that because it is mechanically simple I can fix a lot of it roadside =
and carry tools and spares to do a lot. Granted, most of my drives are =
under 100 km from home, but I have driven a few times through the =
eastern states (I am near Toronto, ON), done a few laps of Lime Rock in =
it, and driven to friends in southern Michigan, and frankly if I had =
reason, would be OK driving it anywhere in North America. I know I could =
get more accurate timing with a modified distributor and electronic =
ignition, but I enjoy occasionally setting the point gap and timing; I =
like the =E2=80=9Copen=E2=80=9D look of 48 spokes, so when I replaced =
the wheels, that is what I bought =E2=80=93 painted; I don=E2=80=99t =
have a modified starter, or a spin-on filter; I have the original =
mechanical regulator and a generator, run original lights all around and =
it has the original radiator, bellows thermostat and original fan (and =
no cooling issues). I feel that every one of the modifications =
available to us, although technically sound, detracts to varying degrees =
from it being a Healey. As for an electric =E2=80=9CHealey=E2=80=9D, =
well for me that is simply no longer a Healey. I can even live with =
owners dropping V-8s into them, at least that was a period conversion =
=E2=80=93 it represents part of the spectrum of Healeys I saw as a =
teenager, (though I waffle on whether I can think of them as Healeys). =
=E2=80=9CNasty Boys=E2=80=9D don=E2=80=99t appeal to me, but nor do =
they bother me. I am not completely obsessed with originality. For =
example I run modern tires of the correct size (i.e., not biased-ply) =
and I use modern lubricants. =20
=20
It is not about the styling, it is about it being a Healey. However, I =
recognize and respect that we all feel differently and I am OK with =
that. I will continue to strive to maintain mine as close as I can to =
when it came out of the factory (thank you all the authors of the =
concours guidelines!), pretty much with the same conviction as Rich had, =
but for different reasons =E2=80=93 I just enjoy driving something that =
old (and older =E2=80=93 I have M.G.s from the 30s and 40s). I enjoy it =
for what it is, a beautiful, reliable for its time, 65 year-old English =
sports car. If the younger generation don=E2=80=99t want that, then =
they can buy something else. I confess I am lucky in that I have a 38 =
year-old son who is mechanically minded and loves the old technology. =
He will get mine.
=20
This is an old argument with, in my opinion, no rights or wrongs, and I =
was going to stay silent, but heck, its late, I am tired, and probably =
made a bad decision!
=20
Cheers, Mirek
=20
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of =
alfuller194@gmail.com
Sent: February 17, 2025 6:52 PM
To: 'James Frey' <rcw414@icloud.com>; 'Michael Salter' =
<michaelsalter@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Healey List' <healeys@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Healeys] The Future of Healey Ownership
=20
Michael, Jim and All:
=20
Your comments below have me thinking about what I have valued in my =
Austin-Healeys, and by extension what others do, will, or might value in =
them =E2=80=93 as balanced against the costs of buying, restoring, =
upgrading or maintaining the cars.
=20
The Healey was never the fastest car I owned, and it was never the =
absolute best handling (though, the last BJ-8 with a new frame and gas =
shocks does handle pretty well). Obviously the Healey never had the most =
up-to-date safety features, and its exterior and dash lighting needed =
LED upgrades to perform even adequately. The list of things the cars =
were not is endless I compared to modern cars=E2=80=A6
=20
BUT: driving a Healey usually put a smile on my face, and it appeared to =
put smiles on a lot of other people=E2=80=99s faces when out and about. =
As you all know, you cannot drive one of these cars without getting =
smiles, waves, thumbs-up, casual nods, etc =E2=80=93 all acknowledging =
the wonderful looks the Healeys have! If you park one, you will =
undoubtedly find your self in a conversation with someone who either had =
one and sold it, wished he had bought one way back when, wished he could =
buy one now, had an uncle who had one, or a cousin, or a =
friend=E2=80=99s dad, or, or, or=E2=80=A6 - you know how it goes! =20
=20
As much fun as it has been to drive my Healeys all over the US and =
Canada, as well as Norway, Denmark and Sweden =E2=80=93 I can say that =
maintaining the cars has been the sore spot for me, and I=E2=80=99m now =
at an age and physical condition where it=E2=80=99s somewhere between =
really-not-fun, really-not-practical and really-not-possible anymore. As =
such, this conversation hits home for me.
=20
SO =E2=80=93 what do I think about the future of Healey ownership? I =
suspect there will always be a small cadre of serious collectors who =
want and value cars that are as original as possible (whether =
=E2=80=9Cconcours=E2=80=9D level, or just plain nice cars!). The pool of =
cars that survive in such condition is shrinking gradually, but then so =
is the pool of such people!=20
=20
I also suspect that there is a substantial and growing group who would =
love the opportunity to have a car with the classic styling of an =
Austin-Healey, but the reliability and drivability of a modern car. =
=E2=80=9CModern=E2=80=9D in this context may well be a very plastic term =
=E2=80=93 meaning different things to different generations. For =
today=E2=80=99s purposes I ask you all whether the future might be =
electric? An Austin-Healey that has good acceleration and brakes, good =
handling, no fluid leaks (!!) and far fewer to no 60 year-old parts to =
go bad =E2=80=93 all combined with the classic lines of the Healey.
=20
What do you say?
=20
-----------------------------------
All the best,
=20
Al Fuller
=20
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net =
Healeys
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2025 3:10 PM
To: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com =
>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Hello
=20
The costs you cite below are inexorably linked to the =E2=80=9CWhat to =
Do with our Healeys=E2=80=9D question that was also raised. Over the =
last several years, I have restored/built 3 cars with most of the work =
done by a local shop (one of which was a Bugeye). I needed to have most =
work performed by my shop. Although my skills are moderate and I enjoy =
turning wrenches, my time available to do so has lessened in recent =
years. =20
=20
Given the above circumstances, I have easily spent 2-3 times market =
value on the purchase price, work performed, parts, etc. I consider =
myself lucky to have a trusted local shop, but depending on where you =
live (even assuming you are willing to spend the money), it can be =
extraordinarily difficult to get the cars serviced, let alone have =
significant restoration work done. I also don=E2=80=99t see the value =
of most Healeys going up much, and it might go down given the (arguably) =
shrinking market/demographics for these cars. =20
=20
So given my recent experience, as much as I might love to own a BJ8 and =
would consider myself =E2=80=9Ca trusted steward=E2=80=9D, paying =
significant dollars (even for a beautifully restored car) in a declining =
market might not be the best idea. As for a car that =E2=80=9Cneeds =
work=E2=80=9D, I=E2=80=99m starting to feel like I=E2=80=99ve been there =
and done that a little too often. Also, there are fun (more modern) =
cars out there for similar dollars that don=E2=80=99t present the same =
financial risk and difficulties in selling. =20
=20
Lastly, I=E2=80=99m 61 (so not =E2=80=9Cyoung=E2=80=9D) and I think =
those that are younger than me are an even tougher sell. I have 2 adult =
sons that have a moderate interest in cars and the =E2=80=9Cold =
cars=E2=80=9D they might have an interest in are probably from =
2000-2010. =20
=20
The market is undeniably softer than previously, but I actually think =
current values are a sellers market, even in the US. With the potential =
for declining demand, it=E2=80=99s hard for me to see an improving =
Healey market over the next 10+ years. =20
=20
Jim
=20
=20
=20
On Feb 16, 2025, at 2:16=E2=80=AFPM, Michael Salter =
=20
Very good question.=20
All the work that you describe requires an individual with significant =
skill(s). These tasks are not something that your "run of the mill" =
parts changer can undertake. In our part of the world (Canada) those =
"parts changers", without breaking a sweat can easily pull in 6 figures =
which equates to $50/hr. $50/hr paid to the tradesman will typically be =
charged out at an hourly rate of at least $100.
In my book a full restoration takes 1200 hours at least, usually a lot =
more to produce concours standards.
So labour ONLY $120K.
Parts and materials usually at least 50% of labour. $60K.
Incidentals at least another $20K
It's getting up there =F0=9F=98=B3=F0=9F=98=B3
=20
M
=20
=20
On Sun., Feb. 16, 2025, 1:40 p.m. warthodson--- via Healeys, =
The list has been very quiet for a long time.
How about a discussion about the cost of restoring a BN1?=20
The metal work is About 90% done. The remaining work includes final =
fitting all body panels, preparing for paint & final painting.
Wiring, plumbing including rebuilding the brakes, interior, fitting the =
windscreen, convertible top, side curtains including providing all =
material where necessary.=20
Rebuild the engine including all the machining. I have all the necessary =
components.
=20
Gary Hodson
=20
=20
=20
On Sunday, February 16, 2025 at 10:46:32 AM CST, Mike Sinclair via =
=20
=20
Is it me, or is the list quiet? I haven't seen anything for quite a =
while?
Mik
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/warthodson@aol.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/rcw414@icloud.com
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>Hi all, thanks for your thoughts Al; things that many =
(most?) of us have thought about.=C2=A0 I was with you until the last =
paragraph.=C2=A0 I have always been of a mind with Austin-Healeys =
(Healeys) that there are enough of them around (well, excluding a few =
rare models), that I have never been offended when somebody customizes =
them to suit their own tastes.=C2=A0 I feel differently with rare cars =
as I think there is some obligation on behalf of those owners to =
preserve some history, but I don=E2=80=99t feel that way about =
Healeys.=C2=A0 I had a number of =E2=80=9Cdiscussions=E2=80=9D with Rich =
Chrysler about this and as many of you know he was an uber-ardent =
supporter of complete originality; they were =
=E2=80=9Cinteresting=E2=80=9D discussions!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>However, for me, owning and driving a Healey (I am a =
second owner and have had my BT7 for 50 years in a few months) goes =
beyond what it looks like or its mediocre performance and questionable =
handling (mine is bog stock).=C2=A0 There is an indefinable =
=E2=80=9Cessence of Healey=E2=80=9D that I love.=C2=A0 At some point, as =
the number of modifications increase, it becomes, for me, less of a =
Healey. =C2=A0I enjoy its quirks.=C2=A0 If I wanted a safe, reliable =
better performing hobby car, I would buy one.=C2=A0 If my Healey lets me =
down on the road, and it rarely has, I have confidence that because it =
is mechanically simple I can fix a lot of it roadside and carry tools =
and spares to do a lot. =C2=A0Granted, most of my drives are under 100 =
km from home, but I have driven a few times through the eastern states =
(I am near Toronto, ON),=C2=A0 done a few laps of Lime Rock in it, and =
driven to friends in southern Michigan, and frankly if I had reason, =
would be OK driving it anywhere in North America. I know I could get =
more accurate timing with a modified distributor and electronic =
ignition, but I enjoy occasionally setting=C2=A0 the point gap and =
timing; I like the =E2=80=9Copen=E2=80=9D look of 48 spokes, so when I =
replaced the wheels, that is what I bought =E2=80=93 painted; I =
don=E2=80=99t have a modified starter, or a spin-on filter; I have the =
original mechanical regulator and a generator, run original lights all =
around and it has the original radiator, bellows thermostat and original =
fan (and no cooling issues). =C2=A0I feel that every one of the =
modifications available to us, although technically sound, detracts to =
varying degrees from it being a Healey.=C2=A0 As for an electric =
=E2=80=9CHealey=E2=80=9D, well for me that is simply no longer a =
Healey.=C2=A0 I can even live with owners dropping V-8s into them, at =
least that was a period conversion =E2=80=93 it represents part of the =
spectrum of Healeys I saw as a teenager, (though I waffle on whether I =
can think of them as Healeys).=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CNasty Boys=E2=80=9D =
=C2=A0don=E2=80=99t appeal to me, but nor do they bother me.=C2=A0 I am =
not completely obsessed with originality.=C2=A0 For example I run modern =
tires of the correct size (i.e., not biased-ply) and I use modern =
lubricants.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>It is not about the styling, it is about it being a =
Healey.=C2=A0 However, I recognize and respect that we all feel =
differently and I am OK with that.=C2=A0 I will continue to strive to =
maintain mine as close as I can to when it came out of the factory =
(thank you all the authors of the concours guidelines!), pretty much =
with the same conviction as Rich had, but for different reasons =
=E2=80=93 I just enjoy driving something that old (and older =E2=80=93 I =
have M.G.s from the 30s and 40s). I enjoy it for what it is, a =
beautiful, reliable for its time, 65 year-old English sports car.=C2=A0 =
If the younger generation don=E2=80=99t want that, then they can buy =
something else.=C2=A0 I confess I am lucky in that I have a 38 year-old =
son who is mechanically minded and loves the old technology.=C2=A0 He =
will get mine.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>This is an old argument with, in my opinion, no rights or =
wrongs, and I was going to stay silent, but heck, its late, I am tired, =
and probably made a bad decision!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>Cheers, Mirek<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Healeys =
<healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>alfuller194@gmail.com<br><b>Sent:</b> February 17, 2025 6:52 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> 'James Frey' <rcw414@icloud.com>; 'Michael =
Salter' <michaelsalter@gmail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> 'Healey List' =
<healeys@autox.team.net><br><b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] The Future =
of Healey Ownership<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Michael, Jim =
and All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Your comments =
below have me thinking about what I have valued in my Austin-Healeys, =
and by extension what others do, will, or might value in them =E2=80=93 =
as balanced against the costs of buying, restoring, upgrading or =
maintaining the cars.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>The Healey was =
never the fastest car I owned, and it was never the absolute best =
handling (though, the last BJ-8 with a new frame and gas shocks does =
handle pretty well). Obviously the Healey never had the most up-to-date =
safety features, and its exterior and dash lighting needed LED upgrades =
to perform even adequately. The list of things the cars were not is =
endless I compared to modern cars=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>BUT: driving a =
Healey usually put a smile on my face, and it appeared to put smiles on =
a lot of other people=E2=80=99s faces when out and about. As you all =
know, you cannot drive one of these cars without getting smiles, waves, =
thumbs-up, casual nods, etc =E2=80=93 all acknowledging the wonderful =
looks the Healeys have! If you park one, you will undoubtedly find =
your self in a conversation with someone who either had one and sold it, =
wished he had bought one way back when, wished he could buy one now, had =
an uncle who had one, or a cousin, or a friend=E2=80=99s dad, or, or, =
or=E2=80=A6 - you know how it goes! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>As much fun as =
it has been to drive my Healeys all over the US and Canada, as well as =
Norway, Denmark and Sweden =E2=80=93 I can say that maintaining the cars =
has been the sore spot for me, and I=E2=80=99m now at an age and =
physical condition where it=E2=80=99s somewhere between really-not-fun, =
really-not-practical and really-not-possible anymore. As such, this =
conversation hits home for me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>SO =E2=80=93 =
what do I think about the future of Healey ownership? I suspect there =
will always be a small cadre of serious collectors who want and value =
cars that are as original as possible (whether =
=E2=80=9Cconcours=E2=80=9D level, or just plain nice cars!). The pool of =
cars that survive in such condition is shrinking gradually, but then so =
is the pool of such people! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>I also suspect =
that there is a substantial and growing group who would love the =
opportunity to have a car with the classic styling of an Austin-Healey, =
but the reliability and drivability of a modern car. =
=E2=80=9CModern=E2=80=9D in this context may well be a very plastic term =
=E2=80=93 meaning different things to different generations. For =
today=E2=80=99s purposes I ask you all whether the future might be =
electric? An Austin-Healey that has good acceleration and brakes, good =
handling, no fluid leaks (!!) and far fewer to no 60 year-old parts to =
go bad =E2=80=93 all combined with the classic lines of the =
Healey.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>What do you =
say?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>-------------=
----------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>All the =
best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Al =
Fuller<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Healeys =
<<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>healeys-bounces@autox.team=
.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Frey via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Sunday, February 16, 2025 3:10 PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael Salter <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com";>michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>><b=
r><b>Cc:</b> Healey List <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>=
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Hello<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>The =
costs you cite below are inexorably linked to the =E2=80=9CWhat to Do =
with our Healeys=E2=80=9D question that was also raised. Over the =
last several years, I have restored/built 3 cars with most of the work =
done by a local shop (one of which was a Bugeye). I needed to have =
most work performed by my shop. Although my skills are moderate =
and I enjoy turning wrenches, my time available to do so has lessened in =
recent years. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Given =
the above circumstances, I have easily spent 2-3 times market value on =
the purchase price, work performed, parts, etc. I consider myself =
lucky to have a trusted local shop, but depending on where you live =
(even assuming you are willing to spend the money), it can be =
extraordinarily difficult to get the cars serviced, let alone have =
significant restoration work done. I also don=E2=80=99t see the =
value of most Healeys going up much, and it might go down given the =
(arguably) shrinking market/demographics for these cars. =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>So given =
my recent experience, as much as I might love to own a BJ8 and would =
consider myself =E2=80=9Ca trusted steward=E2=80=9D, paying significant =
dollars (even for a beautifully restored car) in a declining market =
might not be the best idea. As for a car that =E2=80=9Cneeds =
work=E2=80=9D, I=E2=80=99m starting to feel like I=E2=80=99ve been there =
and done that a little too often. Also, there are fun (more =
modern) cars out there for similar dollars that don=E2=80=99t present =
the same financial risk and difficulties in selling. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Lastly, =
I=E2=80=99m 61 (so not =E2=80=9Cyoung=E2=80=9D) and I think those that =
are younger than me are an even tougher sell. I have 2 adult sons =
that have a moderate interest in cars and the =E2=80=9Cold cars=E2=80=9D =
they might have an interest in are probably from 2000-2010. =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>The =
market is undeniably softer than previously, but I actually think =
current values are a sellers market, even in the US. With the =
potential for declining demand, it=E2=80=99s hard for me to see an =
improving Healey market over the next 10+ years. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Jim</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On Feb 16, 2025, at =
2:16=E2=80=AFPM, Michael Salter <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com";>michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Very good =
question. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>All the work that you describe requires an individual with =
significant skill(s). These tasks are not something that your "run =
of the mill" parts changer can undertake. In our part of the =
world (Canada) those "parts changers", without breaking a =
sweat can easily pull in 6 figures which equates to $50/hr. $50/hr paid =
to the tradesman will typically be charged out at an hourly rate of at =
least $100.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>In my book a full restoration takes 1200 hours at least, =
usually a lot more to produce concours =
standards.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>So labour ONLY $120K.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Parts and materials usually at =
least 50% of labour. $60K.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Incidentals at least another =
$20K<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>It's getting up there </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif'>😳😳</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>M<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On Sun., Feb. 16, 2025, 1:40 p.m. =
warthodson--- via Healeys, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>The list has been very quiet for a =
long time.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>How about a =
discussion about the cost of restoring a =
BN1? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>The metal work is =
About 90% done. The remaining work includes final fitting all body =
panels, preparing for paint & final =
painting.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Wiring, plumbing =
including rebuilding the brakes, interior, fitting the windscreen, =
convertible top, side curtains including providing all material where =
necessary. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS"'>Rebuild the engine including all the machining. I have all the =
necessary components.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Gary =
Hodson<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
id=3D"m_6446190483034331511ydpaa12e928yahoo_quoted_0398894478"><div><div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>On Sunday, February 16, 2025 at 10:46:32 AM CST, Mike Sinclair via =
Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
id=3D"m_6446190483034331511ydpaa12e928yiv3642250353"><div><p><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>=
Is it me, or is the list quiet? I haven't seen anything for quite =
a while?</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>=
Mik</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net =
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