--===============8043283747198147400==
--000000000000df7bee05c91e922e
Bob--
I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowering by
DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year
earlier was no longer sufficient to protect the new cam and lifters. I'll
certainly plead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking that "more is
better", but on the other hand "less" is sometimes not enough, and therein
lies the dilemma.
Best--Michael Oritt
On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies stress
> that their products are carefully formulated, and adding anything to them
> is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent, with its wear
> surface protection a surprising side-effect (like how tetra-ethyl lead was
> added to gas to increase octane rating, and its cushioning and protecting
> of valve seats was a side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a
> little of this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily
> true. ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears to
> be about 1,500PPM.
>
> Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to improper
> break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which makes this doubly
> mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket lifters would change the
> outcome; their main benefit seems to be reduced wear of the block.
>
>
> On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys wrote:
>
> Good practice
>
> Ira Erbs
> 1959 AH 100-6
> 1967 MGB
> Milwaukie, OR
>
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist <healey.nut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay? I have Castrol
>> 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <
>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a commonly
>>> talked-about issue in vintage racing communities, I bought a new race
>>> engine for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
>>> recommended I use Mobil 1. Somewhere during the first race weekend
>>> performance fell off and upon disassembly it was determined that the cam
>>> lobes had been damaged due to wear from the lifters.
>>>
>>> After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing oil and
>>> throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure. Though the Royal Purple
>>> probably contained sufficient zddp on its own and some folks
>>> cautioned against too high levels of zinc I have continued this
>>> combination and have not lost a cam, etc. since.
>>>
>>> YMMV....
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappets which had
>>>> initially been silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
>>>> After adjusting they were still audible and had previously been silent.
>>>> Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir" in the drain
>>>> plug magnet.
>>>> I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and
>>>> a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.
>>>> I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured
>>>> but at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.
>>>>
>>>> M
>>>>
>>>> On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <
>>>> airtightproductions@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares
>>>>> in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have
>>>>> 1000
>>>>> miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with
>>>>> my distributor, the car is running well and smooth.
>>>>> Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What
>>>>> problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those
>>>>> problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no
>>>>> problems. They were a little off, but I expected a little.
>>>>> What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I
>>>>> switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to
>>>>> build up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got
>>>>> M
>>>>> mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So
>>>>> far, so good.
>>>>> Thanks for your help,
>>>>> Steven Kingsbury
>>>>> BN1
>>>>>
>>>>> On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys <
>>>>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
>>>>> engine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.
>>>>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had
>>>>> 4 changes in 6K miles.
>>>>> Very disappointing.
>>>>> I'm considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push
>>>>> rods and a new cam.
>>>>> Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick
>>>>> lifters ... getting a little desperate here.
>>>>> Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.
>>>>>
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>>
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--
Best--Michael
--000000000000df7bee05c91e922e
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Bob--=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">I should have added that thi=
s incident coincided with a recent lowering by DOT of lead and zinc content=
s and what might have been fine a year earlier=C2=A0was no longer=C2=A0suff=
icient to protect the new cam and lifters.=C2=A0 I'll certainly=C2=A0pl=
ead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking that=C2=A0"more is bette=
r", but on the other hand "less" is sometimes not enough, an=
d therein lies the dilemma.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"colo=
r:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">B=
est--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Hea=
leys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</=
a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div>
Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies
stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
(like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little of =
this
is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily tru=
e.
ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appe=
ars
to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
<br>
Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to
improper break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which
makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucke=
t
lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
reduced wear of the block.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div dir=3D"auto">Good practice<br>
<br>
<div>Ira Erbs<br>
1959 AH 100-6<br>
1967 MGB<br>
Milwaukie, OR</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
Alan Seigrist <<a href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">healey.nut@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
is okay?=C2=A0 I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use th=
e
Valvoline too.</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:heal=
eys@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team=
.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>In
about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing
communities, I bought a new race engine for my
MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
recommended=C2=A0I use Mobil 1.=C2=A0 Somewhere during th=
e first
race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly
it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged
due to wear from the lifters.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>After
replacing the cam and lifters I began=C2=A0using RP racin=
g
oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.=C2=A0
Though the Royal Purple probably contained sufficient
zddp on its own and some folks cautioned=C2=A0against too
high levels of zinc I have=C2=A0 continued this combinati=
on
and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>YMMV....=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 a=
t
11:16 PM Michael Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalt=
er@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com<=
/a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems was having
to adjust the tappets which had initially been
silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
<div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were still
audible and had previously been silent.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil
changes there was "fir" in the drain plug m=
agnet.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm very disappointed to have
destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and a =
set of
NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm seriously considering having
silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over
$1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4,
2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:airtightproductions@icloud.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ai=
rtightproductions@icloud.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased
my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These
were their new design for better oil flow. I
now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine
and once I got my problems figured out with my
distributor, the car is running well and
smooth.</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I'm wondering when t=
he other shoe is
going to drop! What problems did you have
pointing you to the lifters as the source of
those problems? When I retorqued the head, I
readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
They were a little off, but I expected a
little.</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I be looking for=
? I used
Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1
like you after 500 miles. I have been driving
the car to build up some trust in it and it's
turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods
on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and
these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for your help,</div>
<div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
<div>BN1</div>
<div><br>
On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter
via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.t=
eam.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team=
.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the
NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
engine with a very low mileage "M"=
; cam
have started to deteriorate.=C2=A0
<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a
steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and
it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0</=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing.=C2=A0=
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm=C2=A0 considering=
trying
bucket type Buick lifters with longer
push rods and a new cam.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have
experience with the durability of the
old Buick lifters ... getting a little
desperate here.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught
this issue before it ruined the
engine.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
class=3D"gmail_signature"><font color=3D"#3333ff">Best--Michael</font></di=
v>
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