--===============5147470404946313944==
--00000000000017143105bcfb8291
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents found what I was looking for ... do read this.
http://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%20Basics%20Root%20Folder/Engine%20Coolin=
g.html
BTW flow direction is out at top.
rg
On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 2:53 PM Michael Salter via Healeys <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Not wanting to nit-pick Harold but I believe that this statement is
> incorrect and could result in considerable confusion:
> *"If the water flow rate decreases by 20% the water temperature at the to=
p
> of radiator will increase slightly and will drop slightly at bottom of th=
e
> radiator." *
> Coolant exits the engine from the water pump and is pumped to the bottom
> of the radiator.
> With everything else being equal, a decrease in the rate of flow of the
> coolant will result in the coolant staying in the radiator longer thus
> allowing more time for the transfer of heat to air.
> The result of the slower flow would be a LOWER temperature at the outlet
> "top" the radiator assuming of course that the radiator inlet temperature
> remains constant.
> Of course with slower flow the converse will occur within the engine
> because, as there is more time for the heat of the engine block to be
> transferred into the coolant, the coolant will be hotter as it exits the
> block at the water pump and travels to the radiator inlet "bottom".
> We 100 owners think about such things a lot :-)
>
> M
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:27 PM Harold Manifold via Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Like many of you I have been cooped up for the past 12 months waiting fo=
r
>> a vaccine and for life to return to normal. I have been happily occupyin=
g
>> my time doing a complete restoration of a BT7 and had lots of time to
>> consider what upgrades or modifications are recommended to overcome some=
of
>> inherent Healey problems. I come to realize maintaining a consistent
>> temperature of the cooling water is an issue. With little else to do whi=
le
>> in lock down I looked into the factors that affect cooling to see if it
>> would point to any obvious upgrades. The design of automobile cooling
>> systems is very complicated but can be distilled down to a few key facto=
rs.
>> Identifying the factors that have the greatest influence on the system w=
ill
>> help to point to possible solutions or remedies. I will suggest some of =
the
>> factors may not be as obvious as others.
>>
>> The job of the cooling system is to remove the engine heat generated. If
>> the capacity of the cooling system to remove heat (i.e. BTU's or HP) is
>> greater than the engine heat generated in all situations then the system
>> will reach a steady state. For most Healey's driving on flat road at 60 =
MPH
>> when ambient temperature is less than 80 F everything is in balance. For
>> many Healey's the situation changes at lower engine RPM's and vehicle
>> speeds. What are the critical variables that affect the water
>> temperature the thermostat sees:
>>
>> 1. Engine heat generated.
>> 2. Radiator heat transfer coefficient.
>> 3. Air temperature or more importantly the difference between air
>> temperature and the radiator cooling fin temperature.
>> 4. Water flow rate.
>>
>> At slower engine/vehicle speeds hotter air from the engine bay can
>> surround the radiator and the water flow rate drops. We can estimate the
>> influence of each:
>>
>> If the air temperature at the radiator core increases from 80 to 100 deg
>> F the water temperature will increase approximately 20 deg F. All things
>> being equal the water temperature will increase approximately 1 deg F pe=
r
>> degree increase in air temperature.
>> If the water flow rate decreases by 20% the water temperature at the top
>> of radiator will increase slightly and will drop slightly at bottom of t=
he
>> radiator.
>>
>> If the water temperature was above the full open temperate of the
>> thermostat when driving at 60 MPH then the thermostat is no longer
>> controlling the system and the water temperature will change when one of
>> the critical variables changes. Often the conclusion is changing
>> thermostats, fans or using some exotic coolant. I will risk the wrath of
>> this forum and suggest one of the clues to solving the slow speed proble=
m
>> is look at what is happening at 60 MPH. If the water temperature is abov=
e
>> the thermostat rating while driving at highway speeds then factors 1 and=
2
>> above are likely the issue. In other words there is no reserve capacity =
in
>> the cooling system and soon as air next to the core gets hotter the wate=
r
>> temperature increases.
>>
>> The engine heat generated is a major factor, the less heat the marginal
>> Healey cooling system has to deal with the better. If the engine heat
>> generated can be reduced by 20% the water temperature will decrease by 2=
2
>> deg F. The factors that affect engine heat generated are: losses due to
>> friction, air/fuel mixture and engine timing. If the air/fuel mixture is
>> too lean it will cause the engine to generate more heat. A fuel pump tha=
t
>> maintains the minimum required fuel pressure at all engine speeds and we=
ll
>> tuned and jetted carburetors are important. The correct ignition timing =
and
>> the mechanical and vacuum advance curves are very important to reduce he=
at
>> generated.
>>
>> Lastly we have the radiator heat transfer coefficient. The coefficient i=
s
>> based on the design of the radiator, number of tubes, rows of tubes, typ=
e
>> of fins, density of fins, area of radiator, materials used to construct =
the
>> radiator, etc. The units are BTU/hr/deg F. If some radiator tubes are bl=
ock
>> or have reduced flow, if the fins are damaged or fowled with debris, if =
the
>> radiator has cracks or spilt seams or if the radiator top tank is not fu=
ll
>> the radiator will not perform at its optimum. If in doubt have a radiato=
r
>> shop boil out the radiator and pressure test.
>>
>> It seems some Healey's don't have a problem with over heating while
>> others do. One possible explanation is the Healey cooling system is
>> marginal at best and all of the factors that could affect overheating mu=
st
>> be in harmony with little room for forgiveness.
>>
>> The upgrades I have done are a plastic 5 bladed fan, new stock radiator
>> core, 123 ignition and bungs on the exhaust for oxygen sensors. Time wil=
l
>> tell if these helped tame the cooling system.
>>
>> I hope this helps and isn't killing a fly with an elephant gun.
>>
>> Harold
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *L=
eonard
>> Berkowitz via Healeys
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 07, 2021 7:08 AM
>> *To:* healeys@autox.team.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Overheating
>>
>> So first step is to make sure your temperature gauge is accurate. If you
>> are still running hot I solved the problem by adding an additional row t=
o a
>> factory original radiator. Haven't had any problem with overheating sin=
ce.
>> I had already tried adding an electric fan, an oil cooler and a Texas fa=
n.
>> Nothing worked.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of
>> rfbegani@gmail.com <rfbegani@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 6, 2021 4:58 PM
>> *To:* 'Michael Salter' <michaelsalter@gmail.com>; 'Bob Spidell' <
>> bspidell@comcast.net>; 'Ahealey help' <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* [Healeys] Overheating
>>
>>
>> Bob & Mike:
>>
>>
>>
>> You both may have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the
>> response from the group. As a result, I purchased an infrared thermomet=
er
>> to determine if my water gauge was giving accurate readings. The
>> thermometer gun told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher than t=
he
>> temperature of the sensor attached to the block. At the same time, I
>> noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead of going down to =
90
>> degrees which would indicate a 30-degree high reading. In May when I le=
ave
>> for cool Michigan, I will send the gauge to Nisonger to be rebuilt.
>>
>>
>>
>> I began to test the temperature of the water going through the cooling
>> system at the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to th=
e
>> radiator and the upper and lower hoses while the engine is running at id=
le
>> and at 2-3 Thousand rpm. The chart I created to record these temperatur=
es
>> allowed me to produce observations or averages because the flow of the
>> water is dependent upon the rpms of the engine. The engine has overheat=
ed
>> all of the 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 miles on the new
>> speedo since rebuilding to 20 over.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan
>> operating.
>>
>> inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with electric
>> fan operating.
>>
>>
>>
>> The above temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses=
.
>>
>>
>>
>> These temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficien=
t
>> gallons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high rpms. At idl=
e
>> the pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep the engine cool. T=
his
>> is especially true when you have been operating the engine at high speed
>> and come down to 30 =E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and go traffic. Maybe the=
real
>> answer is to install an electric pump for constant cooling water?
>>
>>
>>
>> In the past week, I have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank
>> and a new 7 psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learned that our radiators
>> have a long neck. Both those changes have reduced my problem of very hi=
gh
>> overheating and resulting boiling over. In addition, when my water gaug=
e
>> shows 212 degrees the water temperature is actually 30 degrees less or
>> approximately 185 degrees. Also, I am not boiling over and loosing
>> coolant. Nevertheless, the engine water temperature is still spiking to
>> 210 plus degrees true when coming off highway speeds.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my review of various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and
>> others are recommending increasing the pressure in the classic car syste=
ms
>> to 15 psi plus, and coolant recovery tanks =E2=80=9Cif your coolant syst=
em,
>> radiator, hoses etc. is new=E2=80=9D and therefore can hold the pressure=
.
>> Unfortunately, I have not found any maker of a 1 inch depth x 2.33 inch
>> diameter radiator cap except our 7 psi cap so I can try such a pressuriz=
ed
>> system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum
>> indicated some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless
>> Coolant rather than 50/50 coolant water mixture.
>>
>>
>>
>> I still have no idea why a minority of our group has overheating
>> problems. More ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Begani 67 BJ8
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Michael
>> Salter via Healeys
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20 PM
>> *To:* Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
>> *Cc:* healeys@autox.team.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the
>> cooling system not being "large" enough.
>>
>> My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the
>> 100. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they
>> really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.
>>
>> I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varle=
y
>> about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the wate=
r
>> pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried it.
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote=
:
>>
>> I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a
>> very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford
>> stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was
>> (essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I
>> use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the
>> radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolan=
t
>> flow through the pump and radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and=
my
>> friend, after doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. install=
ed
>> both a better pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached p=
ic
>> is not of the spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows =
the
>> general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block
>> flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approa=
ch
>> has improved cooling, though the engine probably still gets warm if it h=
as
>> to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the improved pumps:
>>
>>
>> https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per=
-car/productinfo/8501HO/
>>
>> Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my
>> BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pu=
mps
>> have very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems
>> pretty small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated
>> radiator core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at
>> least, that's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of
>> course, our engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and=
it
>> would be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (b=
ut
>> I can dream).
>>
>> ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big
>> of an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airfl=
ow.
>> But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engi=
ne
>> not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>>
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>>
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
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>
--00000000000017143105bcfb8291
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Gents found what I was looking for ... do read this.<=
/div><div><a href=3D"http://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%20Basics%20Root%20F=
older/Engine%20Cooling.html">http://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%20Basics%20=
Root%20Folder/Engine%20Cooling.html</a></div><div>BTW flow direction is out=
at top.</div><div>rg<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 2:53 PM Michael Salte=
r via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.t=
eam.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sma=
ll"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Not wanting to nit-pick Ha=
rold but I believe that this statement is incorrect and could result in con=
siderable confusion:</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-size:small">
<span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#=
0000ff">"If the water flow rate decreases by 20% the water temperature=
=20
at the top of radiator will increase slightly and will drop slightly at bot=
tom=20
of the radiator."</font> </i><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"=
>Coolant exits the engine from the water pump and is pumped to the bottom o=
f the radiator. <br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">With everything e=
lse being equal, a decrease in the rate of flow of the coolant will result =
in the coolant staying in the radiator longer thus allowing more time for t=
he transfer of heat to air. <br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">The r=
esult of the slower flow would be a LOWER temperature at the outlet "t=
op" the radiator assuming of course that the radiator inlet temperatur=
e remains constant. <br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Of course wit=
h slower flow the converse will occur within the engine because, as there i=
s more time for the heat of the engine block to be transferred into the coo=
lant, the coolant will be hotter as it exits the block at the water pump an=
d travels to the radiator inlet "bottom".</span></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,sans-serif">We 100 owners think about such things a lot :-)<br></span></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">M<br=
></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans =
ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:27 PM Har=
old Manifold via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; targ=
et=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">Like many of you I have been cooped up for the past 12 months=
=20
waiting for a vaccine and for life to return to normal. I have been happily=
=20
occupying my time doing a complete restoration of a BT7 and had lots of tim=
e to=20
consider what upgrades or modifications are recommended to overcome some of=
=20
inherent Healey problems. I come to realize maintaining a consistent temper=
ature=20
of the cooling water is an issue. With little else to do while in lock down=
I=20
looked into the factors that affect cooling to see if it would point to any=
=20
obvious upgrades. The design of automobile cooling systems is very complica=
ted=20
but can=C2=A0be distilled down to a few key factors. Identifying the factor=
s=20
that have the greatest influence on the system will help to point to possib=
le=20
solutions or remedies. I will suggest some of the factors may not be as obv=
ious=20
as others.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">The job of the cooling system is to remove the engine heat=20
generated. If the capacity of the cooling system to remove heat (i.e.=20
BTU's=C2=A0or HP) is greater than the engine heat generated in all situ=
ations=20
then the system will reach a steady state. For most Healey's driving on=
flat=20
road at 60 MPH when=C2=A0ambient temperature is less than 80 F everything i=
s in=20
balance. For many Healey's the situation changes at lower engine RPM=
9;s and=20
vehicle speeds. What are the critical variables that=C2=A0affect the water=
=20
temperature=C2=A0the thermostat sees:</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">1. Engine heat generated.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">2. Radiator heat transfer coefficient.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">3. Air temperature or more importantly the difference between=
=20
air temperature and the radiator cooling fin temperature.</font></span></di=
v>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">4. Water flow rate.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">At slower engine/vehicle speeds hotter air from the engine bay=
=20
can surround the radiator and the water flow rate=C2=A0drops. We can estima=
te=20
the influence of each:</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">If the air temperature at the radiator core increases from 80=
=20
to=C2=A0100 deg F the water temperature will increase approximately=20
2</font></span><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff">0 de=
g F. All things being equal the water temperature will increase=20
approximately 1 deg F per degree increase in air=20
temperature.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">If the water flow rate decreases by 20% the water temperature=
=20
at the top of radiator will increase slightly and will drop slightly at bot=
tom=20
of the radiator.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">If the water temperature was above the full open temperate of=
=20
the thermostat when=C2=A0driving at 60 MPH then the thermostat is no longer=
=20
controlling the system and the water temperature will=C2=A0change when one =
of=20
the critical variables changes.=C2=A0Often the conclusion is changing=20
thermostats, fans or using some exotic coolant. I will risk the wrath of th=
is=20
forum and suggest one of the clues to solving the slow speed problem is loo=
k at=20
what is happening at 60 MPH. If the water temperature is above the thermost=
at=20
rating while driving at highway speeds then factors 1 and 2 above are likel=
y the=20
issue. In other words there is no reserve capacity in the cooling system an=
d=20
soon as air next to the core gets hotter the water temperature=20
increases.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">The=C2=A0engine heat generated is a major factor, the less=20
heat the marginal Healey cooling system has to deal with the better. If the=
=20
engine heat generated can be reduced by 20% the water temperature will decr=
ease=20
by 22 deg F. The factors that affect engine heat generated are: losses due =
to=20
friction, air/fuel mixture and engine timing. If the air/fuel mixture is to=
o=20
lean it will cause the engine to generate more heat. A fuel pump that maint=
ains=20
the minimum required fuel pressure at all engine speeds and well tuned and=
=20
jetted carburetors are important. The correct ignition timing and the mecha=
nical=20
and vacuum advance curves are very important to reduce heat=20
generated.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">Lastly we have the radiator heat transfer coefficient. The=20
coefficient is based on the design of the radiator, number of tubes, rows o=
f=20
tubes, type of fins, density of fins, area of radiator, materials used to=
=20
construct the radiator, etc. The units are BTU/hr/deg F. If some radiator t=
ubes=20
are block or have reduced flow, if the fins are damaged or fowled with debr=
is,=20
if the radiator has cracks or spilt seams=C2=A0or if the radiator top tank =
is=20
not full the radiator will not perform at its optimum.=C2=A0If in doubt hav=
e a=20
radiator shop boil out the radiator=C2=A0and pressure test.</font></span></=
div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">It seems some Healey's don't have a problem with over =
heating=20
while others do. One possible explanation is the Healey cooling system is=
=20
marginal at best and all of the factors that could affect overheating must=
=20
be=C2=A0in harmony=C2=A0with=C2=A0little room for=20
forgiveness.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">The upgrades=C2=A0I have done are a plastic 5 bladed fan, new=
=20
stock radiator core, 123 ignition and bungs on the exhaust for oxygen senso=
rs.=20
Time will tell if these helped tame the cooling system.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">I hope this helps and isn't killing a fly with an elephant=
=20
gun.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff">Harold</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=
=3D"#0000ff"></font></span>=C2=A0</div><br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" align=3D"left">
<hr>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Healeys=20
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank"=
>healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Leonard Berkowitz=
=20
via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 07, 2021 7:08 AM<br><b>To:</b>=20
<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.t=
eam.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys]=20
Overheating<br></font><br></div>
<div></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">So=20
first step is to make sure your temperature gauge is accurate. If you are s=
till=20
running hot I solved the problem by adding an additional row to a factory=
=20
original radiator.=C2=A0 Haven't had any problem with overheating since=
. I had=20
already tried adding an electric fan, an oil cooler and a Texas fan. Nothin=
g=20
worked.=C2=A0</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_7583077822617075009gmail-m_2507401075191523387appendonse=
nd"></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div>
<hr style=3D"width:98%;display:inline-block">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_7583077822617075009gmail-m_2507401075191523387divRplyFwd=
Msg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif=
" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Healeys=20
<<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">hea=
leys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:rfbegani=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>=20
<<a href=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">rfbegani@gmail.=
com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6, 2021 4:58=20
PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Michael Salter' <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalt=
er@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>>; 'Bob S=
pidell'=20
<<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comc=
ast.net</a>>; 'Ahealey help'=20
<<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys@aut=
ox.team.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] Overheating</font>=20
<div>=C2=A0</div></div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Bob &=
;=20
Mike:</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">You both=
may have seen=20
my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the response from the group.=C2=A0=
As a=20
result, I purchased an infrared thermometer to determine if my water gauge =
was=20
giving accurate readings.=C2=A0 The thermometer gun told me that my water g=
auge=20
was 30 degrees higher than the temperature of the sensor attached to the=20
block.=C2=A0 At the same time, I noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at =
rest=20
instead of going down to 90 degrees which would indicate a 30-degree high=
=20
reading.=C2=A0 In May when I leave for cool Michigan, I will send the gauge=
to=20
Nisonger to be rebuilt.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I began =
to test the=20
temperature of the water going through the cooling system at the inlet to a=
nd=20
outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to the radiator and the upper and l=
ower=20
hoses while the engine is running at idle and at 2-3 Thousand rpm.=C2=A0 Th=
e=20
chart I created to record these temperatures allowed me to produce observat=
ions=20
or averages because the flow of the water is dependent upon the rpms of the=
=20
engine.=C2=A0 The engine has overheated all of the 40 years I have owned it=
and=20
has only 1000 miles on the new speedo since rebuilding to 20 over. </span><=
/p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">At the r=
adiator inlet=20
134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan operating.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with electric fan operating. </span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The abov=
e temperatures=20
are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">These te=
mperatures=20
indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficient gallons to cool the=
=20
engine only when the engine is at high rpms.=C2=A0 At idle the pump does no=
t=20
circulate sufficient water to keep the engine cool.=C2=A0 This is especiall=
y=20
true when you have been operating the engine at high speed and come down to=
30 =E2=80=93=20
40 mph and stop and go traffic.=C2=A0 Maybe the real answer is to install a=
n=20
electric pump for constant cooling water?</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In the p=
ast week, I=20
have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank and a new 7 psi 1 inch=
=20
radiator cap because I learned that our radiators have a long neck.=C2=A0 B=
oth=20
those changes have reduced my problem of very high overheating and resultin=
g=20
boiling over.=C2=A0 In addition, when my water gauge shows 212 degrees the =
water=20
temperature is actually 30 degrees less or approximately 185 degrees.=C2=A0=
=20
Also, I am not boiling over and loosing coolant.=C2=A0 Nevertheless, the en=
gine=20
water temperature is still spiking to 210 plus degrees true when coming off=
=20
highway speeds.=C2=A0 </span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In my re=
view of various=20
sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and others are recommending increas=
ing=20
the pressure in the classic car systems to 15 psi plus, and coolant recover=
y=20
tanks =E2=80=9Cif your coolant system, radiator, hoses etc. is new=E2=80=9D=
and therefore can=20
hold the pressure.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, I have not found any maker of a 1 i=
nch=20
depth x 2.33 inch diameter radiator cap except our 7 psi cap so I can try s=
uch a=20
pressurized system.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Another =
suggestion on=20
an older discussion at the British Car Forum indicated some of the Ontario =
car=20
owners had switched to Evans Waterless Coolant rather than 50/50 coolant wa=
ter=20
mixture.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I still =
have no idea=20
why a minority of our group has overheating problems.=C2=A0 More=20
ideas?</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Regards,=
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Bob Bega=
ni 67 BJ8=20
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span>=
=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><b>Fr=
om:</b>=20
Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_bl=
ank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael=20
Salter via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20=20
PM<br><b>To:</b> Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>><br><b>Cc:</b>=20
<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.t=
eam.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] 100 water=20
pumps</p></div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in">=C2=
=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Yes Bob,=
there is=20
something wrong with our assumptions regarding the cooling system not being=
=20
"large" enough. </span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"></span></p>=
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">My wifes=
Maxima is=20
around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the 100. Certainly it has=
a=20
couple of very effective electric fans but they really don't cut in ver=
y often=20
unless you have the AC on.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"></span></p>=
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I'm =
suspicious of the=20
rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley about this subject =
and he=20
indicated that increasing the size of the water pump annular orifice didn&#=
39;t make=20
much difference when he tried it.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"></sp=
an></p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:12pt"></span>=C2=A0</p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">M</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""></span=
></p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""></span>=C2=
=A0</p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><span=
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">M</span></p=
></div></div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in">=C2=
=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in">On Sa=
t,=20
Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.=
net" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</p></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg=
b(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium=
medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0in =
12pt 11.4pt">I=20
sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a v=
ery=20
similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford stuffed t=
he=20
292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was (essentially) to=
o=20
short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I use the te=
rm loosely--a=20
cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the radiator. The spacer had t=
he=20
added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolant flow through the pum=
p and=20
radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and my friend, after doing the=
=20
usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a better pump (la=
rger=20
vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not of the spacer he=
=20
used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the general idea (For=
d=20
basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block flow, and th=
e improved=20
spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approach has improved cooling,=
=20
though the engine probably still gets warm if it has to sit too long at i=
dle.=20
Link is to one of the improved pumps:<br><br><a href=3D"https://www.class=
ictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/850=
1HO/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-fo=
r-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/</a><br><br>Anyways,=20
after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my BJ8, I=
9;ve=20
wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps have ve=
ry=20
small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems pretty small=
for=20
such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiator core=
won't=20
help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at least, that's wha=
t I've=20
found). This is probably not an option as, of course, our engines don'=
;t have a=20
similar spacer to be improved upon, and it would be a major task to incre=
ase=20
both the cavity's size and the pump (but I can dream).<br><br>ps. The=
=20
overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big of an eng=
ine=20
in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airflow. But, the e=
ngine=20
bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine not terribly l=
arger=20
in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.<br><br>Bob </p></div=
>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0in =
12pt">=C2=A0</p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div>
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<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
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ttp://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://a=
utox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Healeys@autox.t=
eam.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
s/michaelsalter@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
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<br>
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eam.net</a><br>
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