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Several years ago I invested a good sum of money on a stock of new quality =
TR cam blanks. I have exactly one left, which I am saving for my own needs=
=2E I have tried to find an affordable source for a stock of new blanks wi=
thout success. One of the reasons is that in order for me to recoup my inv=
estment and make enough to cover my time, pay the cam grinder (whose price =
has gone up several times in the last 3 years) I have to sell a 298dx cam f=
or +$700.00. There are not enough folks with need or budget to make this h=
appen going forward.
If someone comes up with a NEW blank they can send me I will get it ground =
and back for the price of the grinding + shipping + $100.00 for my time. M=
y grinder will NOT use an old TR camshaft as a blank. I wish I had a bette=
r solution but I do not. The reality is that
racing costs what racing costs and that is never cheap. Good parts are exp=
ensive.
We in FOT can at least be happy we are not paying for parts and services fo=
r a vintage racing Porsche (TR costs x 4). We just use our old iron to pas=
s them on the track. Good racing all. Ken
From: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Larry Young via Fot
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 8:02 AM
To: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] A cam for Rick
Ken has the original CNC ground master, so presumably it is ground from a c=
opy which will be less accurate. - Larry
On 1/26/2023 10:57 AM, Ken Knight via Fot wrote:
Everyone should be aware this cam is ground on an original TR cam core, not=
a new blank. Ken
On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey via Fot
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] A cam for Rick
The Larry young DX cam profile is available at Webb Camshaft, Riverside Ca=
=2E
I=E2=80=99ve used this profile with a lot of success for multiple clients .=
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 22, 2023, at 2:58 PM, Tony Drews via Fot <fot@autox.team.net <mailto=
:fot@autox.team.net> > wrote:
=EF=BB=BF
I was going to keep out of this one but am not capable of it. :)
I run Larry's original design cams. I'm not quite sure who is making them =
now - Ken Knight had some made last go-round. It's fast but not as peaky a=
s the Erson 24 - coming out of a turn at 3000 rpm is fine, 3500 is better, =
pulls through 6500 RPM, not sure where it drops off - haven't had the coura=
ge to rev that high.
Most of the front runners (to my knowledge at least) run the Erson 24. I r=
an a modified one of those (experimental) and hated that one because it was=
even worse at low RPM than the Erson.
We ran an Isky 666 cam early on and it might be more suitable for a less hi=
ghly stressed engine. It was tractable and pulled through 6000, not sure a=
bout higher - I suspect going over 6000 won't be worth it. With a built en=
gine, ported head, all the goodies it's not as fast / powerful as the Larry=
or Erson ones.
The Isky would be easier on the valve train. Larry's profile requires full=
diameter stock lifters - if you've gone with the GT40 lifters sleeved down=
it'll wipe the cam. One set of lifters I bought from BPNW they had put a =
chamfer around the edge to break the sharp edge and that was enough to wipe=
a cam too. It's pretty high lift so you need to have your ducks in a row =
for there not to be spring bind, have the seat pressures right, and conside=
r valves and springs a replaceable wear item. I suspect the same is true f=
or the Erson 24 grind as well. I believe there's an Erson 23 grind which i=
s less radical that might be an option.
I'm trying to point out possible "off the shelf" items that don't require y=
ou to send a profile to a cam grinder...
The Erson ones are hopefully still available from Brian Howlett / BFE / www=
=2EBritishFrameandEngine.com <http://www.BritishFrameandEngine.com> . Not =
sure who's making the Larry Young design ones now.
Cheers, Tony Drews
On 1/22/2023 11:30 AM, Larry Young via Fot wrote:
The numbers for Erson/BFE #24 mentioned by David and Henry is the last one =
in my list and has the longest duration. Like Henry said, if you drop below=
4,000 your dead.
I got interested in the history of cam design. According the Speedy Bill Sm=
ith (Speedway Motors) the real innovators after WWII were Ed Winfield and C=
ollins of Harmon-Collins (see the book "Souping the Stock Engine). He said =
their designs were heavily copied by the others. I think Kas's cams were de=
signed by someone from Harmon-Collins.
I certainly don't have the experience of many others on this list, but I'll=
contribute a few comments on what Rick has said. Cams is a subject that is=
mysterious (Rick said "black art") to many, so it is easy for them to be f=
ooled. There is nothing mysterious about it. I agree that most people put t=
o much emphasis on peak HP rather than the entire range you will operate in=
=2E
- Larry
On 1/22/2023 6:46 AM, David Gott via Fot wrote:
Hi FOT,
I used Larry Young=E2=80=99s site to learn a lot about cams and their relat=
ive effects on engine performance with some crude engine modeling software,=
in the quest to pick the right cam for my wants, building a strong mid ran=
ge engine, trying not to spin over 6,000 if I can help it with a stock base=
d crank. Does anyone happen to have the specs on the Gillander=E2=80=99s=
#24 they could share? Just curious. Maybe it=E2=80=99s at the pointy end=
of the list below?
Rick McCurdy, here=E2=80=99s the cam reference list Larry put together, bel=
ow, and I=E2=80=99d sure be curious what Rick Parent=E2=80=99s software wou=
ld say I should have done!!!
Triumph Cams <https://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/TriumphCams.html>
_______________________________________________
http://www.fot-racing.com
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s.com
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Several years ago I invested a =
good sum of money on a stock of new quality TR cam blanks.=C2=A0 I have =
exactly one left, which I am saving for my own needs.=C2=A0 I have tried =
to find an affordable source for a stock of new blanks without =
success.=C2=A0 One of the reasons is that in order for me to recoup my =
investment and make enough to cover my time, pay the cam grinder (whose =
price has gone up several times in the last 3 years) I have to sell a =
298dx cam for +$700.00.=C2=A0 There are not enough folks with need or =
budget to make this happen going forward.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If someone =
comes up with a NEW blank they can send me I will get it ground and back =
for the price of the grinding + shipping + $100.00 for my time.=C2=A0 My =
grinder will NOT use an old TR camshaft as a blank.=C2=A0 I wish I had a =
better solution but I do not.=C2=A0 The reality is that<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> racing costs what racing costs and that is never =
cheap.=C2=A0 Good parts are expensive.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>We in FOT =
can at least be happy we are not paying for parts and services for a =
vintage racing Porsche (TR costs x 4).=C2=A0 We just use our old iron to =
pass them on the track. =C2=A0=C2=A0Good racing all.=C2=A0 =
Ken<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Fot =
<fot-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Larry Young via =
Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 27, 2023 8:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
fot@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] A cam for =
Rick<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ken has the original CNC ground master, =
so presumably it is ground from a copy which will be less accurate. - =
Larry<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 1/26/2023 10:57 AM, Ken =
Knight via Fot wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Everyone should be aware this cam is ground on an =
original TR cam core, not a new blank. Ken<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Fot <a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";><fot-bounces@autox.team.net=
></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tony and Annie Garmey via =
Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> Tony =
Drews <a =
href=3D"mailto:tony@tonydrews.com";><tony@tonydrews.com></a><br><b>C=
c:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:<=
/b> Re: [Fot] A cam for Rick<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The Larry =
young DX cam profile is available at Webb Camshaft, Riverside =
Ca. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I=E2=80=99ve used this profile with a lot =
of success for multiple clients . <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Jan 22, 2023, at 2:58 PM, Tony Drews =
via Fot <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><p>I was going to keep out of =
this one but am not capable of it. :)<o:p></o:p></p><p>I run =
Larry's original design cams. I'm not quite sure who is making =
them now - Ken Knight had some made last go-round. It's fast but =
not as peaky as the Erson 24 - coming out of a turn at 3000 rpm is fine, =
3500 is better, pulls through 6500 RPM, not sure where it drops off - =
haven't had the courage to rev that high.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Most of the =
front runners (to my knowledge at least) run the Erson 24. I ran a =
modified one of those (experimental) and hated that one because it was =
even worse at low RPM than the Erson.<o:p></o:p></p><p>We ran an Isky =
666 cam early on and it might be more suitable for a less highly =
stressed engine. It was tractable and pulled through 6000, not =
sure about higher - I suspect going over 6000 won't be worth it. =
With a built engine, ported head, all the goodies it's not as fast / =
powerful as the Larry or Erson ones.<o:p></o:p></p><p>The Isky would be =
easier on the valve train. Larry's profile requires full diameter =
stock lifters - if you've gone with the GT40 lifters sleeved down it'll =
wipe the cam. One set of lifters I bought from BPNW they had put a =
chamfer around the edge to break the sharp edge and that was enough to =
wipe a cam too. It's pretty high lift so you need to have your =
ducks in a row for there not to be spring bind, have the seat pressures =
right, and consider valves and springs a replaceable wear item. I =
suspect the same is true for the Erson 24 grind as well. I believe =
there's an Erson 23 grind which is less radical that might be an =
option.<o:p></o:p></p><p>I'm trying to point out possible "off the =
shelf" items that don't require you to send a profile to a cam =
grinder...<o:p></o:p></p><p>The Erson ones are hopefully still available =
from Brian Howlett / BFE / <a =
href=3D"http://www.BritishFrameandEngine.com";>www.BritishFrameandEngine.c=
om</a>. Not sure who's making the Larry Young design ones =
now.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Cheers, Tony Drews<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On 1/22/2023 11:30 AM, Larry Young via Fot =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
numbers for Erson/BFE #24 mentioned by David and Henry is the last one =
in my list and has the longest duration. Like Henry said, if you drop =
below 4,000 your dead.<br><br>I got interested in the history of cam =
design. According the Speedy Bill Smith (Speedway Motors) the real =
innovators after WWII were Ed Winfield and Collins of Harmon-Collins =
(see the book "Souping the Stock Engine). He said their designs =
were heavily copied by the others. I think Kas's cams were designed by =
someone from Harmon-Collins.<br><br>I certainly don't have the =
experience of many others on this list, but I'll contribute a few =
comments on what Rick has said. Cams is a subject that is mysterious =
(Rick said "black art") to many, so it is easy for them to be =
fooled. There is nothing mysterious about it. I agree that most people =
put to much emphasis on peak HP rather than the entire range you will =
operate in.<br> - Larry <br><br><br>On 1/22/2023 6:46 AM, David =
Gott via Fot wrote:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
FOT, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
used Larry Young=E2=80=99s site to learn a lot about cams and their =
relative effects on engine performance with some crude engine modeling =
software, in the quest to pick the right cam for my wants, building a =
strong mid range engine, trying not to spin over 6,000 if I can help it =
with a stock based crank. Does anyone happen to have the =
specs on the Gillander=E2=80=99s #24 they could share? Just =
curious. Maybe it=E2=80=99s at the pointy end of the list =
below?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Rick McCurdy, here=E2=80=99s the cam reference list =
Larry put together, below, and I=E2=80=99d sure be curious what Rick =
Parent=E2=80=99s software would say I should have done!!! =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/TriumphCams.html"; =
target=3D"_blank">Triumph Cams</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>___________________=
____________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
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><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
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p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Donate: <a =
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tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com</a><o:p></o:p=
></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquo=
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