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When your car is already at the minimum weight, I think there is little poi=
nt in discarding a lead battery in favour of an Optima.=20
In our championship though, the minimum weight for a 4 cyl TR is only 851kg=
s/1850lbs, so when I bought my TR4A from Bob Kramer, removing the heavy lea=
d battery in the trunk, together with the 1cm thick cable to the front of t=
he car, for an Optima type battery of 6kgs near the starter motor, was the =
easiest 15kgs saving. To get at the actual 860 kgs was a work of weeks. Mos=
t weight is saved by the polyester body parts. My door hinges are 0.8kgs li=
ghter biy reduring the surface and the thickness and grinding the bolts. Re=
cently, a friend of mine showed me a box (package) of a Li ion battery for =
a motorbike to feel the weight : I really thought the box was empty but sur=
e enough the battery was in it!=20
Marcel=20
Van: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>=20
Aan: "Ponostyle" <ponobill@gmail.com>=20
Cc: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>=20
Verzonden: Maandag 16 september 2019 15:49:38=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Battery ?=20
I have used an Optima in many of my cars for a few decades, LOVE them. Even=
got over 10 years out of more than one. They are a bit heavy but do not ne=
ed a case in some racing orgs. I would say go this route. Lithium are nice =
but some orgs do not allow them, and if they do you need special markings o=
n the car. Could be a problem if you have a fire and a lithium battery is i=
nvolved, per the FD, a real pita to put out and keep out in rare cases.=20
Ralph=20
On Monday, September 16, 2019, 08:07:24 AM CDT, Ponostyle via Fot <fot@auto=
x.team.net> wrote:=20
Oops, error: Actually, it=E2=80=99s possible to have a two terminal battery=
that cuts off charging when a maximum voltage is reached, but to my knowle=
dge none of the batteries available commercially do that.=20
On Sep 15, 2019, at 9:07 PM, Ponostyle via Fot < [ mailto:fot@autox.team.ne=
t | fot@autox.team.net ] > wrote:=20
If you want to get a seriously good battery then Lithium is the way to go. =
Unfortunately there are several issues that make that decision a little tri=
cky. If the car is going to charge the battery instead of running it total =
loss and charging in the pits, then you have to accept certain limitations =
in the battery=E2=80=94like it might die fairly quickly. Most people don=E2=
=80=99t want to rewire their car to accommodate a lithium battery, so even =
the eye-wateringly expensive (a thousand bucks and up) are designed with a =
simplified BMS system that protects from overcharging by disconnecting the =
battery. If your electric system can live with that, then you might as well=
buy one of the cheaper ones ($150-ish) and see how it goes. The best way t=
o manage a lithium battery is to keep it connected to the car but disable c=
harging when the cells reach about 95% charge, and disconnect the battery e=
ntirely if the cell voltage gets to 20 percent or so. If you do that the ba=
ttery will outlast the car. If you don=E2=80=99t, it might die the first ti=
me you overcharge or completely drain the battery. Any battery with an inte=
rnal BMS and just two terminals can=E2=80=99t just shut off charging.=20
Lead acid batteries respond to overcharging by going into electrolysis and =
generating oxygen and hydrogen. Nothing terrible happens unless it goes on =
too long without adding water, or you manage to catch the hydrogen/oxygen m=
ixture on fire, in which case it turns back into water and disassembles the=
battery.=20
Unless you are prepared to build your own battery from a box full of LiFe c=
ells, add your own BMS and control charging I suspect you should get an AGM=
and be happy. Optimas are not all that special.=20
BQ_BEGIN
On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:38 PM, Nick Black via Fot < [ mailto:fot@autox.team.n=
et | fot@autox.team.net ] > wrote:=20
Its time for some new electrons in the Duke of Oil (TR4A as named by Hardy'=
s wife Ellie) and there should be something better than a heavy ole wetcell=
type. I know some of the Optima batts are popular, but what is the flavour=
du jour? And will it need some sort of special charger?=20
OR=20
Should I just go get another wetcell type?=20
Thoughts and considerations?=20
Outta juice here in NorCal=20
Nick=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] =
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
yle.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com ]=20
BQ_END
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] =
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
yle.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com ]=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ]=
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
o.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com ]=20
_______________________________________________=20
fot@autox.team.net=20
http://www.fot-racing.com=20
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20
arcel@telenet.be=20
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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>When your car is already at the mi=
nimum weight, I think there is little point in discarding a lead batte=
ry in favour of an Optima.</div><div>In our championship though, the minimu=
m weight for a 4 cyl TR is only 851kgs/1850lbs, so when I bought my TR4A fr=
om Bob Kramer, removing the heavy lead battery in the trunk, together with =
the 1cm thick cable to the front of the car, for an Optima type battery of =
6kgs near the starter motor, was the easiest 15kgs saving. To get at the ac=
tual 860 kgs was a work of weeks. Most weight is saved by the polyester bod=
y parts. My door hinges are 0.8kgs lighter biy reduring the surface and the=
thickness and grinding the bolts. Recently, a friend of mine showed me a b=
ox (package) of a Li ion battery for a motorbike to feel the weight : I rea=
lly thought the box was empty but sure enough the battery was in it!</div><=
div>Marcel</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"=
><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>Van: </b>"fot" <fot@autox.team.net&=
gt;<br><b>Aan: </b>"Ponostyle" <ponobill@gmail.com><br><b>Cc: </b>"fo=
t" <fot@autox.team.net><br><b>Verzonden: </b>Maandag 16 september 201=
9 15:49:38<br><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] Battery ?<br></div><br><div data-=
marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div class=3D"ydp82013c83yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px=
;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif=
; font-size: 13px;"></div><div class=3D"ydp82013c83yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px=
;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif=
; font-size: 13px;">
</div><div class=3D"ydp82013c83yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" dir=3D"ltr=
" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;=
font-size: 13px;">I have used an Optima in many of my cars for a few decad=
es, LOVE them. Even got over 10 years out of more than one. They are a bit =
heavy but do not need a case in some racing orgs. I would say go this route=
. Lithium are nice but some orgs do not allow them, and if they do you need=
special markings on the car. Could be a problem if you have a fire and a l=
ithium battery is involved, per the FD, a real pita to put out and keep out=
in rare cases.</div><div class=3D"ydp82013c83yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"fo=
nt-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" dir=
=3D"ltr" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans=
-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class=3D"ydp82013c83yahoo-style-wr=
ap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 13px;" dir=3D"ltr" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helve=
tica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Ralph</div><div class=3D"ydp82013c=
83yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sa=
ns-serif; font-size: 13px;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,H=
elvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class=3D"ydp820=
13c83yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial=
,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neu=
e,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
=20
</div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayahoo_quoted" id=3D"ydp1319985ayahoo=
_quoted_9406722869">
<div style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif; font-size: 13px; color: #26282a;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family=
: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; color: #=
26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Monday, September 16, 2019, 08:07:24 AM CDT, Ponosty=
le via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div><div id=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"><div><div class=
=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"></div></div><div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv=
8142194191">Oops, error: Actually, it=E2=80=99s possible to have a two term=
inal battery that cuts off charging when a maximum voltage is reached, but =
to my knowledge none of the batteries available commercially do that. =
<br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp1319=
985ayiv8142194191yqt5699972327" id=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191yqt56290"><di=
v class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"=
clear=3D"none"><blockquote class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"><div class=
=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191">On Sep 15, 2019, at 9:07 PM, Ponostyle via Fo=
t <<a class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">fot@autox.team.net</a=
>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191Apple-interchange-ne=
wline" clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"></div></block=
quote></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191yqt5699=
972327" id=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191yqt12413"><div><div class=3D"ydp13199=
85ayiv8142194191"></div></div><div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191">=
</div></div><div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191">If you want to get=
a seriously good battery then Lithium is the way to go. Unfortunately ther=
e are several issues that make that decision a little tricky. If the car is=
going to charge the battery instead of running it total loss and charging =
in the pits, then you have to accept certain limitations in the battery=E2=
=80=94like it might die fairly quickly. Most people don=E2=80=99t want to r=
ewire their car to accommodate a lithium battery, so even the eye-wateringl=
y expensive (a thousand bucks and up) are designed with a simplified BMS sy=
stem that protects from overcharging by disconnecting the battery. If your =
electric system can live with that, then you might as well buy one of the c=
heaper ones ($150-ish) and see how it goes. The best way to manage a lithiu=
m battery is to keep it connected to the car but disable charging when the =
cells reach about 95% charge, and disconnect the battery entirely if the ce=
ll voltage gets to 20 percent or so. If you do that the battery will outlas=
t the car. If you don=E2=80=99t, it might die the first time you overcharge=
or completely drain the battery. Any battery with an internal BMS and just=
two terminals can=E2=80=99t just shut off charging. <div class=3D"ydp=
1319985ayiv8142194191"><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none=
"><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191">Lead acid batteries respond to ov=
ercharging by going into electrolysis and generating oxygen and hydrogen. N=
othing terrible happens unless it goes on too long without adding water, or=
you manage to catch the hydrogen/oxygen mixture on fire, in which case it =
turns back into water and disassembles the battery. <br class=3D"ydp13=
19985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"=
><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"></div><div class=3D"=
ydp1319985ayiv8142194191">Unless you are prepared to build your own battery=
from a box full of LiFe cells, add your own BMS and control charging I sus=
pect you should get an AGM and be happy. Optimas are not all that special.&=
nbsp;<br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yd=
p1319985ayiv8142194191"><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"non=
e"><blockquote class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"><div class=3D"ydp1319985a=
yiv8142194191">On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:38 PM, Nick Black via Fot <<a class=
=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</=
div><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191Apple-interchange-newline" clear=
=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191"><div class=3D"ydp1319985a=
yiv8142194191"><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191yahoo-style-wrap" styl=
e=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: =
13px;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, san=
s-serif; font-size: 13px;"><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" dir=3D"l=
tr">Its time for some new electrons in the Duke of Oil (TR4A as named by Ha=
rdy's wife Ellie) and there should be something better than a heavy ole wet=
cell type. I know some of the Optima batts are popular, but what is the fla=
vour du jour? And will it need some sort of special charger?</div><div clas=
s=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" dir=3D"ltr">OR<br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv814=
2194191" clear=3D"none">Should I just go get another wetcell type?</div><di=
v class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" dir=3D"ltr"><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayi=
v8142194191" clear=3D"none"></div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" d=
ir=3D"ltr">Thoughts and considerations?</div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv81=
42194191" dir=3D"ltr"><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"=
></div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" dir=3D"ltr">Outta juice here=
in NorCal</div><div class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" dir=3D"ltr">Nick</d=
iv></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class=3D"=
ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"><a class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv81421941=
91" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" s=
hape=3D"rect">fot@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" =
clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"><a cla=
ss=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/"; target=
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r class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp1319985=
ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none">Donate: <a class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191=
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___<br class=3D"ydp1319985ayiv8142194191" clear=3D"none"><a class=3D"ydp131=
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