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Actually, I have no issues with being on track with you.
As long as we're clear on the rules. If whatever groups says "stay on
line".. I'll stay on line and expect you to have a clue on what that means.
And if they say "go off line if you're slow" then I'll go off line.
Pretty simple, isn't it?
And at the end of the day I'll have the playboy bunnies as I'll have been
the "nice'" racer.
;)
Cheers,
Jim
Dallas
_____
From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb@bnj.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:37 PM
To: britbits@netzero.com
Cc: 'FOT'
Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most
of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon,
Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road
America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and
Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest.
On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote:
Define "speed".
Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the
normal speed of the run group?
If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah,
he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower?
20? 30? Who defines that?
What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable
drivers? What's safer?
Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session.
Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you
race? So I can avoid those tracks?
Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read?
Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand?
Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and
playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago.
We're just supposed to be out there having fun.
Cheers,
Jim
Dallas
_____
From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb@bnj.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM
To: britbits@netzero.com
Cc: 'FOT'
Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your
racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you
are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect
you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a
safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was
NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And
in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be
on the line then.
Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is
it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you
point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go
into the dirt because he wanted to.
On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote:
I understand the intent....
When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the
understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass
you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass.
Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum?
One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow
easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him
a new oriface for violating the basic rule.
When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so
giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was
signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order
to make a safe pass.
I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group
and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on
the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick
a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track.
It all comes down to communication.
Cheers,
Jim
Dallas
too many toys, not enough $$$
_____
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Bill Babcock
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM
To: britbits@netzero.com
Cc: 'FOT'
Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before
reading.
I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's
position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be
at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed
me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were
traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is
where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are
at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to
the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the
laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do.
There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not
at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a
car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely.
I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes
three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving
instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I
considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the
the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come
up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than
you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift
and wait.
If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through
the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in
behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their
brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt
Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible.
We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics.
Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong
anywhere near the racing line.
On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote:
Steven,
Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so
some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel
they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of
Thunder" once too often ;)
Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to
install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the
video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video.
Cheers,
Jim
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Steven Belfer
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at
Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I
needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so
I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the
first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed
to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling
that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done
bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up"
session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the
left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the
line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at
full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some
rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow
P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time
when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me
angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get
my job done safely and get off
the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's
dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money."
I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their
machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and
you're in big trouble.
~SB
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Babcock & Jenkins
Billb@bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Editor
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Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
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Babcock & Jenkins
Billb@bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Editor
Ke Nalu e-Magazine
Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
Bill@kenalu.com
www.kenalu.com
blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
------=_NextPart_000_0100_01C91F68.9B8B5770
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii=
">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-b=
reak: after-white-space">
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Actually, I have no issues with being on track =
with =
you.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>As long as we're clear on the rules. If w=
hatever =
groups says "stay on line".. I'll stay on line and expect you to have a =
clue on =
what that means.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>And if they say "go off line if you're slow" th=
en I'll go =
off line.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Pretty simple, isn't it?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>And at the end of the day I'll have the playboy=
bunnies as =
I'll have been the "nice'" racer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>;)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D171164004-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Dallas</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb@bnj=
.com] =
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
britbits@netzero.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'FOT'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Be=
dding =
Brakes, dangerous driving<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, tha=
t would =
be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, I=
nfineon, =
Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road=
=
America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and=
Barbur =
next year as well. Have fun with the rest. <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space">
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Define "speed".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Is it the speed your car is capable of... you=
r personal =
preference, or the normal speed of the run group?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If Steve was running around the track at some=
really =
reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the l=
egal =
definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines =
=
that?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>What's more important on a race course? =
A =
clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's =
safer?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an =
early =
morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing m=
oves in =
that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those =
tracks?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Or did you read the original post at all?&nbs=
p; Going by =
too fast to read?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Or should I slow down my questions so you can=
=
understand?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this me=
ss? =
Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago=
. =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>We're just supposed to be out there having fu=
n. =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Dallas</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D000231504-26092008><FONT fac=
e=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Bill Babcock [<A =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>mailto:Billb@bnj.com</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</=
B> =
Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:britbits@netzero.com";>britbits@netzero.com</A><BR><B>Cc=
:</B> =
'FOT'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous =
driving<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at ra=
cing =
speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off=
the =
line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaki=
ng =
drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for man=
aging =
the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on t=
he line =
when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need =
to be =
there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NO=
T =
supposed to be on the line then. =
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not sa=
fe nor =
is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go =
where =
you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy d=
idn't go =
into the dirt because he wanted to. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-li=
ne-break: after-white-space">
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I understand the intent....</FONT></SPAN></=
DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>When I went through my drivers school in a =
vintage race =
group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If som=
eone =
wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe=
=
pass.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Or is responsibility not a word to mention =
in this =
forum?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>One of the other racers shared an anecdote =
of "moving =
off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after=
that =
session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic =
rule.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>When I was active in Vintage I was in a clo=
se cockpit =
car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult.  =
; But my =
expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car =
should =
use that information in order to make a safe pass.</FONT></SPAN></DI=
V>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I guess it's something that needs to be dis=
cussed with =
each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track.=
=
If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. &=
nbsp; If =
it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs =
to be =
agreed before cars hit the track.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It all comes down to communication.</FONT><=
/SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Dallas</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT f=
ace=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>too many toys, not enough $$$</FONT></SPAN>=
</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dlef=
t>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>fot-bounces@autox.team.ne=
t</A> [<A =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:fot-bounces@autox.=
team.net</A>] =
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Bill Babcock<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September=
25, =
2008 10:51 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:britbits@netzero.com";>britbits@netzero.com</A><BR><B>=
Cc:</B> =
'FOT'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous =
driving<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity =
to =
delete before reading. =
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the =
=
"douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed tha=
t did =
NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at f=
ull =
chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my questi=
on is, =
if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty cl=
ose to =
the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be ther=
e, in =
other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way throug=
h a =
corner. If you are <SPAN class=3DApple-style-span =
style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: underline">driving</SPAN> to the line, you=
don't =
need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of phy=
sics =
permit your car to be, then you do. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if =
you are =
not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy w=
ho drove =
a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so=
=
closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least=
twice, =
sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just wher=
e his =
driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the=
line. I =
considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day=
on the =
the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when y=
ou come =
up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower =
than =
you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect&nb=
sp;for =
that, lift and wait. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe=
path =
through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you c=
an't =
tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to s=
tand on =
their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing conditio=
n. As =
Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are =
responsible. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows wit=
h =
picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you=
don't =
belong anywhere near the racing line. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV>Steven,<BR><BR>Unfortunately they use the "r" word when descr=
ibing =
vintage events... so<BR>some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position=
or the =
different PC games feel<BR>they need to drive like a jerk to be a =
"racer". =
Or maybe they saw "Days of<BR>Thunder" once too often =
;)<BR><BR>Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably =
not a =
bad idea to<BR>install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an=
=
official and show them the<BR>video. It's kind of hard to ar=
gue =
against a =
video.<BR><BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>Jim<BR>Dallas<BR><BR><BR>-----Ori=
ginal =
Message-----<BR>From: <A =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>fot-bounces@autox.team.=
net</A> =
[<A =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:fot-bounces@auto=
x.team.net</A>] =
On<BR>Behalf Of Steven Belfer<BR>Sent: Thursday, September 25, 200=
8 6:24 =
PM<BR>To: FOT<BR>Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous =
driving<BR><BR>Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two=
=
weekends ago I raced at<BR>Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new=
brakes =
that needed bedding. This meant I<BR>needed to heat up my br=
akes in =
the first practice session, let them cool so<BR>I could have good =
braking =
power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the<BR>first gro=
up so at =
8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed<BR>to d=
o and =
started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and =
feeling<BR>that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps=
I'm =
just about done<BR>bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped.=
=
This is the first "Warm-up"<BR>session of the weekend.  =
;A red =
2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the<BR>left and moved to=
the =
right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the<BR>line. &nb=
sp;Next =
thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at<BR>=
full =
speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw =
some<BR>rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racin=
g hard =
with a yellow<BR>P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't=
want to =
sacrifice his lap time<BR>when overtaking me. The level of =
aggression took me by surprise and made me<BR>angry. It was,=
after =
all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get<BR>my job d=
one =
safely and get off <BR>the race track. I tell my=
friends =
and family, when they ask if it's <BR>dangerous, "You see, i=
t's a =
gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money."<BR>I would say that=
most of =
the drivers are safe and respectful of their<BR>machines and their=
=
abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and<BR>you're in =
big =
trouble.<BR><BR>~SB<BR><BR><BR>___________________________________=
____________<BR>Support =
Team.Net <A =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donat=
e.html</A><BR><BR><A =
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R><BR>Fot =
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eam.net/mailman/listinfo/fot</A><BR><BR><BR>____________________________=
________________________________<BR>Click =
here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future =
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fo/fot<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
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<DIV =
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<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(118,15,79)">Bill Babcock</SPAN>=
</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV =
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<DIV =
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<DIV>Babcock & Jenkins</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>503.936.7660</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Editor</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Ke Nalu =
e-Magazine</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000><FONT class=3DAp=
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<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com";>www.kenalu.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>blog: <A =
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_________ =
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target=3D_blank>Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Cli=
ck here =
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target=3D_blank></A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
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<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(118,15,79)">Bill Babcock</SPAN></=
DIV>
<DIV>
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<DIV>Babcock & Jenkins</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>503.936.7660</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Editor</FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Ke Nalu =
e-Magazine</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000><FONT class=3DAppl=
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</DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><FONT =
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_______ =
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<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span =
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<DIV><BR class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
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