Yes, it's true- the 2nd gen CRX and all Civics from then on had a great
suspension with that double wishbone. The Mini has struts in front and a
multilink "Z axle" in the rear derived from the E46 3 series BMW. The 1st
gen CRX had struts.
In theory the double wishbone design is an advantage over struts (better
camber curve) but in practice we'll have to see. BMW does have crash bolt
TSBs for all the 3 series that offers a modest gain in static negative
camber. Perhaps if enough people make noise they may do the same for the
MINI. Another thing the MINI has going for it is a really stiff suspension.
We tried to push down on the strut towers of the Cooper S with Sport
Suspension Plus (also available on the Cooper) and it would not budge. And
the car did not have shipping spacers in the springs, we checked. If the
car doesn't roll as much as a Civic, then it may not be a net disadvantage
to have struts.
The CRX was such a neat car, and it may well be far better for autox than
the new MINI. I made my comparison just to point out that a light, nimble,
low powered car was such a great idea 10 years ago, I don't see why the
idea can't work today when just about everything has 200hp. Except that now
we're spoiled:)
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: james creasy [mailto:Black94PGT@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:47 AM
To: Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}; 'Carl Merritt';
ba-autox@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Let's Talk Minis...
whats the suspension on the mini?
i seem to recall the CRX had double wishbone on all four corners... quite a
nice performance feature on an inexpensive car.
-james c
OSP - Onerous Suspension Performance
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}" <PETER.THANA@ROCHE.COM>
To: "'james creasy'" <Black94PGT@pacbell.net>; "'Carl Merritt'"
<CMerritt@luminous.com>; <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:32 AM
Subject: RE: Let's Talk Minis...
> According to Mark Chiles, who just bought one, the owners manual quotes
> weight for the base Cooper as 2480 with a full tank of gas and a driver of
> unspecified weight. That should equate to a full tank weight of ~2300 and
a
> fighting weight a good bit under that.
>
> For reference the second gen CRX Si had a curb weight of 2178 lbs and 108
> hp. And that car is classed in GS. The light one was the first gen,
which
> weighed ~1900lbs but had only 91hp. All three cars are quoted as 8.5
> seconds 0-60, and I bet you could take off a few tenths from that with
those
> rubber band Hoosiers.
>
> As long as Brake Assist or other funky BMW technology doesn't up screw the
> car up for autox, it actually matches up decently with some of the proven
> speed maintenance cars in GS like the CRX and the old Celica ST. Of
course
> it's too early to tell, but all indications look like it should be a great
> bet for HS, maybe too good!
>
> Peter
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: james creasy [mailto:Black94PGT@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 9:54 AM
> To: Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}; 'Carl Merritt';
> ba-autox@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: Let's Talk Minis...
>
>
> >It's sort of like a modern day CRX, light and nimble but without a
> > lot of power.
>
> the mini cooper as a modern day CRX? words i thought id never hear!!! :)
> its quite a bit heavier though.
>
> sounds like a super h-stock car.
>
> -james c
> OSP - Overbearing Snake Presence
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}" <PETER.THANA@ROCHE.COM>
> To: "'Carl Merritt'" <CMerritt@luminous.com>; <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:42 AM
> Subject: RE: Let's Talk Minis...
>
>
> > Hi Carl,
> >
> > Sean O'Boyle and I had a chance to drive a Cooper at Mini of Mt. View
last
> > week. They are neat little cars, and pretty much everything you've
heard
> > about the handling is true so far- very responsive steering and a solid
> > chassis. We felt the Cooper was a bit underpowered, especially in the
low
> > end. Granted we had 3 people in the car, but pulling away from normal
> > right-turn-on-green speed in 2nd gear resulted in... bog. Our
conclusion
> > was that for the street you might be better off with the S, although
they
> > are not giving out test drives in them yet.
> >
> > Autox is a different story. I still believe after driving the car that
> the
> > base Cooper will be the car to have for HS. I've heard weight figures
> > closer to 23xx pounds for the base Cooper. With the optional Sport
> > Suspension Plus, the car will have much stiffer springs than anything in
> its
> > class. The Cooper is not available with 17" wheels as a factory option,
> but
> > comes standard with 15s and has optional 16x6.5 rims. Shod those with
the
> > current 205 Kumhos or the new 215/40/16 Hoosiers and you have a wheel
tire
> > package superior to anything in GS, let alone HS. An additional bonus
is
> > that the rubber band Hoosiers will dramatically shorten the gearing,
which
> > is something the car desperately needs.
> >
> > The Cooper S will be a big unknown for DS until someone sets one up and
> > tries it. The chassis has great potential, but that class is already
full
> > of very strong cars like the Integra Type R and the IS300.
> >
> > I really wanted to love the base Cooper, because I've always had good
luck
> > with the lesser of two models (Z3 2.8 Coupe vs. the ///M and my
non-turbo
> > MR2). It's sort of like a modern day CRX, light and nimble but without
a
> > lot of power. Also while the MSRP spread of the 2 models isn't that
> large,
> > it will be much harder/more expensive to buy a Cooper S for the next
year
> at
> > least. Having driven just the Cooper, I'd have to say that the S has
more
> > fun potential for day to day driving though. The Cooper may be a better
> bet
> > for stock class autox, but then again if it is too good I can see that
car
> > getting bumped to GS before year's end.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carl Merritt [mailto:CMerritt@luminous.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:50 PM
> > To: 'ba-autox@autox.team.net'
> > Subject: Let's Talk Minis...
> >
> >
> > So I'm seriously thinking about selling my Golf TDI for a new Mini.
> Anybody
> > have one yet or have one on order? Anybody seen any come out to play
at
> an
> > Autocross yet? Any guesses on weather the NA or S version will be more
> > competitive in their respective classes?
> >
> > For reference, the normally aspirated Mini has a 115HP/110ft-lb motor
and
> > weighs 2500lbs, and according to MiniUSA does a 0-60 in 8.5 seconds.
The
> S
> > is 163HP/155ft-lbs and 2700lbs, and goes to 60 in 6.9 seconds. They
both
> > have the same wheel options available (17x7 being the largest), same
sport
> > suspension and seat options, but the S has a 6-speed. The S is in
> D-Stock,
> > the NA is in H-Stock.
> >
> > More food for thought here: http://www.miniusa.com/
> >
> > Anybody?
> >
> > -Carl
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