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41. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:14:15 -0600; Who is responsible? Suddenly this is two questions. Who is responsible for finding it, collecting it, presenting it to the PC? Gotta be the protestee. He should be more knowledgeable about his car, a; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00093.html (20,542 bytes)
42. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Matt Murray <mattm@optonline.net>; Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:41:35 -0500; I believe the P and F cars are already forbidden. :^) That's just redundant. Matt Murray too much to; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00094.html (8,911 bytes)
43. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:09:42 -0600; Steve Bollinger is selling his championship winning DP Sprigged. Included in the list of goodies intended to entice the potential buyer: "Factory documentation." It's the times we live in. ;-) --Rock; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00095.html (9,574 bytes)
44. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:10:30 -0600; Spridget. (damn spellchecker) --R <rickcone@bellsouth.net>;; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00096.html (10,072 bytes)
45. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:39:29 -0600; You are still wanting a potentially innocent "defendant" to pony up $2100 to prove his innocence. He's already $2100 in the negative before he ever got protested. And what if he is never protested (a; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00111.html (18,342 bytes)
46. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Smokerbros@aol.com; Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:19:05 EST; Okay, here I go disagreeing with Rocky, again... I'm not convinced that it "starts" with the accuser. Sometimes it starts with a vehicle which appears faster than it should be. Make it harder to prot; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00112.html (11,287 bytes)
47. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Smokerbros@aol.com; Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:21:54 EST; Okay, here I go disagreeing with Rocky, again... I'm not convinced that it "starts" with the accuser. Sometimes it starts with a vehicle which appears faster than it should be. Make it harder to prot; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00113.html (11,259 bytes)
48. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Matt Murray <mattm@optonline.net>; Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:15:11 -0500; FWIW, I think the Protest Shed (more commonly know as the Porsche Parking area) has a micro fiche reader there and I think last year had a PC or access to the PC's (to read Service Manual CDs) in the; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00116.html (10,224 bytes)
49. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:45:04 -0600; It needs to be a process that works also at Tours and Divisionals (probably Pros too). This isn't a rule for just one event. What may be available at Forbes Field (they have a microfiche reader??) ma; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00119.html (11,156 bytes)
50. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Rick Cone" <rickcone@bellsouth.net>; Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:15:03 -0500; It would also need to be available at local events. How on earth can we expect a local Protest committee to deal with dealers to find out if part X is legal? At least if the book is there they can lo; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00120.html (12,399 bytes)
51. RE: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Eric Salem" <eric@mail.brown911.com>; Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:42:46 -0600; At least if the book is there they can look at something.... if they don't have the book they get bounced.... they probably wouldn't appeal, just come back next time with the book if they know they; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00121.html (8,747 bytes)
52. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Mark Andy <mark@sccaprepared.com>; Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:46:50 -0500 (EST); Your starting assumption is flawed. You're assuming getting the book is a reasonable thing. It isn't in many cases. In those cases, yes your local protest committee should go to the closest dealer.; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00122.html (10,593 bytes)
53. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:07:11 -0600; I don't see that much disagreement there, Charlie. In fact, that's valuable I might ask, however, how many when buying a car even think to ask what the shop manual costs? How many even think of that; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00123.html (18,909 bytes)
54. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Charles" <golden1@britsys.net>; Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:05:41 -0500; Just to stir up the fires of discussion a bit while we are on the subject, I'm wondering just how much useful (to settle protests) info is actually even in the FSM? In these days of R&R, especially f; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00125.html (18,500 bytes)
55. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:41:46 -0600; You get formal protests at local events?? :-O Isn't the protest procedure for the two parties to go off to the far corner of the site and, uh, "discuss" it? The one who comes back wins? ;-) [Just kid; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00126.html (9,846 bytes)
56. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Mark Sirota <mark@sirota.org>; Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:27:05 -0500; --On Tuesday, March 9, 2004 6:05 PM -0500 Charles <golden1@britsys.net> The point you're missing here, as have many in this discussion, is that the official manufacturer's service documentation is no; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00141.html (10,840 bytes)
57. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Mark Andy <mark@sccaprepared.com>; Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:01:02 -0500 (EST); I think most people in this discussion actually do understand that. What we're discussing is what that minimum documentation standard (prior to an actual protest occurring) should be. Pretty much, p; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00147.html (14,326 bytes)
58. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Mark Sirota <mark@sirota.org>; Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:50:32 -0500; So would changing the timing of the requirement from "when the protest is heard" to "when the PC asks for it" solve the entire problem? Mark; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00149.html (8,972 bytes)
59. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Mark Andy <mark@sccaprepared.com>; Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:00:23 -0500 (EST); Perhaps. The Protestee needs to be given reasonable time to get the documentation the PC asks for (up to the FSM), but other than that, that's certainly the primary point. The related point is that; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00150.html (10,034 bytes)
60. Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals (score: 1): Author: Mark Sirota <mark@sirota.org>; Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:11:52 -0500; So is there ever a situation where the burden of proof would shift to the protestor? Not that there needs to be, I'm just curious. Mark; /html/autox/2004-03/msg00151.html (9,088 bytes)

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