--===============8342405405723289606==
--0000000000001473e005ad5557c1
Hi David,
Thanks, Somehow I missed this email and now I can't find my bloody thermal
transmitter temperature sender which I removed from Stag no.2 to use as a
bench setup.
I finally decided to buy a variable power supply with a current limiting
option. Up to this point I've been using 12 volt bricks which power small
appliances like phone etc.
I'll keep you updated on my findings.
Regards, Sujit
On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:38 PM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:
> OK. I measured late model TR6 temp gauge and it reads 61 ohms. If you
> have spare parts you can connect a wire directly from the battery to one
> terminal on the gauge, run a wire from the other gauge terminal to the
> sender on the engine. With this setup you can measure the voltage across
> the gauge and/or the sender. The voltage will be constant and radiometric
> to the battery voltage. The gauge reading will be irrelevant since it is
> calibrated to a 10 volt supply.
>
> Attached is a spreadsheet calculating the gauge and sender voltages for
> all the sensor values in the table. The battery voltage and gauge
> resistance are variables so you can enter the actual battery voltage into
> the field at the gauge and sensor voltages will be recalculated for that
> value of battery voltage and gauge resistance.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sujit Roy <triumphstag@gmail.com>
> To: DAVID MASSEY <Dave1massey@cs.com>
> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2020 1:25 pm
> Subject: Re: [TR] Thermal Transmitter Temperature Sender help
>
> Thanks. I have spare parts and I plan to create a setup on a bench. I have
> some documents on how to check the gauge and voltage stabilizer and noe
> some resistance no. If my set up models that of my stag. I will have some
> sanity. My stag has a 3 speed BW35. Box. At around 70 mph the engine
> speed is close to 4k rpm. Did the tr7 use a bw35. If so are these numbers
> similar
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 10:35 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:
>
> That could be problematic. If the Stag gauges work like those in the
> TR4-6 there is a voltage stabilizer that maintains a constant average 10
> volts on the gauge. But the original stabilizer is an early form of a PWM
> regulator. The contacts will alternately apply full battery volts and zero
> on a proportional basis such that the average is 10 volts. And the
> switching frequency is about one hertz. The gauges react slowly enough
> that they average it out just fine but if you put a voltmeter on it you
> will see the voltage switching on and off fast enough that your meter won't
> have time to settle out and give a meaningful reading.
>
> There are after-market stabilizers available that use a solid-state IC
> voltage regulator providing a constant 10 volts. If you have one of those
> you could get a reliable reading. But that is if you have one of those.
>
> All that said, if I had a resistance value for the gauge I could calculate
> what you would get if an IC stabilizer was installed.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sujit Roy <triumphstag@gmail.com>
> To: DAVID MASSEY <Dave1massey@cs.com>
> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2020 11:30 am
> Subject: Re: [TR] Thermal Transmitter Temperature Sender help
>
> Follow up question. Does anyone have data showing what the voltage at the
> gauge should be to resistance values.
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 12:15 PM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:
>
> Here are some data for the TR8. This might be close enough for the stag:
> Temp C Temp F Orig ohms GTR110 ohms
> 50 122 332 290
> 55 131 275 242
> 60 140 227 197
> 65 149 193 169
> 70 158 158 142
> 75 167 134 120
> 80 176 114 102
> 85 185 99 91
> 90 194 85 77
> 95 203 74 65
> 100 212 60 55
> 105 221 51 48
> 110 230 44 41
> 115 239 37 37
> 120 248 32 31
> 125 257 28 28
> 130 266 24 25
> 135 275 21 22
>
>
> If you have a source of resistors in this value range you can connect them
> in lieu of the sensor and check the reading to see if it is close.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sujit Roy <triumphstag@gmail.com>
> To: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:31 am
> Subject: [TR] Thermal Transmitter Temperature Sender help
>
> I'm going to try and figure out if my Stag is running hot. The gauge
> always reads high
>
> I found a note on another forum on how to test the voltage regulator, and
> another forum how to calibrate the gauge.
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to test the Thermal Transmitter Temperature
> Sender. Does anyone have any data on how the resistance changes with
> temperature?
>
> Since most Triumph around the 70's used Smith gauges, I'm assuming the
> data for the Thermal Transmitter Temperature Sender would be the same.
>
> Regards, Sujit
>
> --
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
>
>
--
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California
https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
--0000000000001473e005ad5557c1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi David,<div>Thanks, Somehow I missed this email and=C2=
=A0 now I can't find my bloody thermal transmitter temperature sender w=
hich I removed from Stag no.2 to use as a bench setup.=C2=A0</div><div>I fi=
nally decided to buy a variable power supply with a current limiting option=
. Up to this point I've been using 12 volt bricks which power small app=
liances=C2=A0like phone etc.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I'll keep y=
ou updated on my findings.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards, Sujit</div></d=
iv><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On =
Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:38 PM DAVID MASSEY <<a href=3D"mailto:dave1massey=
@cs.com">dave1massey@cs.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">OK.=C2=A0 I measured late model TR6 temp gauge and i=
t reads 61 ohms.=C2=A0 If you have spare parts you can connect a wire direc=
tly from the battery to one terminal on the gauge, run a wire from the othe=
r gauge terminal to the sender on the engine.=C2=A0 With this setup you can=
measure the voltage across the gauge and/or the sender.=C2=A0 The voltage =
will be constant and radiometric to the battery voltage.=C2=A0 The gauge re=
ading will be irrelevant since it is calibrated to a 10 volt supply.</font>=
</div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Attached is a spreadsheet calculating the gauge and s=
ender voltages for all the sensor values in the table.=C2=A0 The battery vo=
ltage and gauge resistance are variables so you can enter the actual batter=
y voltage into the field at the gauge and sensor voltages will be recalcula=
ted for that value of battery voltage and gauge resistance.=C2=A0 <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Hope this helps.</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Sujit Roy <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphstag@gmail.com"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">triumphstag@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: DAVID MASSEY <<a href=3D"mailto:Dave1massey@cs.com"; target=3D"_blank=
">Dave1massey@cs.com</a>><br>
Cc: Triumphs <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2020 1:25 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Thermal Transmitter Temperature Sender help<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8486622828124494031yiv1465975638">
<div>
<div>Thanks. I have spare parts and I plan to create a setup on a bench. I =
have some documents on how to check the gauge and voltage stabilizer and no=
e some resistance no. If my set up models that of my stag. I will have some=
sanity.=C2=A0 My stag has a 3 speed BW35. Box.=C2=A0 At around 70 mph the =
engine speed is close to 4k rpm. Did the tr7 use a bw35. If so are these nu=
mbers similar</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8486622828124494031yiv1465975638yqt51490">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 10:35 AM DAVID MASSEY <<a rel=3D"=
nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.com"; target=3D"_blan=
k">dave1massey@cs.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">That could be problematic.=C2=A0 If the Stag gauges =
work like those in the TR4-6 there is a voltage stabilizer that maintains a=
constant average 10 volts on the gauge.=C2=A0 But the original stabilizer =
is an early form of a PWM regulator.=C2=A0 The contacts will alternately ap=
ply full battery volts and zero on a proportional basis such that the avera=
ge is 10 volts.=C2=A0 And the switching frequency is about one hertz.=C2=A0=
The gauges react slowly enough that they average it out just fine but if y=
ou put a voltmeter on it you will see the voltage switching on and off fast=
enough that your meter won't have time to settle out and give a meanin=
gful reading.=C2=A0 <br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">There are after-market stabilizers available that use=
a solid-state IC voltage regulator providing a constant 10 volts.=C2=A0 If=
you have one of those you could get a reliable reading.=C2=A0 But that is =
if you have one of those.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">All that said, if I had a resistance value for the ga=
uge I could calculate what you would get if an IC stabilizer was installed.=
</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: Sujit Roy <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:trium=
phstag@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">triumphstag@gmail.com</a>><br clear=
=3D"none">
To: DAVID MASSEY <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:Dave=
1massey@cs.com" target=3D"_blank">Dave1massey@cs.com</a>><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
Cc: Triumphs <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:triumphs=
@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=
=3D"none">
Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2020 11:30 am<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [TR] Thermal Transmitter Temperature Sender help<br clear=3D"n=
one">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8486622828124494031yiv1465975638m_4638235716154564889yi=
v4365019461">
<div>
<div>Follow up question. Does anyone have data showing what the voltage at =
the gauge should be=C2=A0 to resistance values.</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8486622828124494031yiv1465975638m_4638235716154564889yi=
v4365019461yqt12730">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 12:15 PM DAVID MASSEY <<a rel=3D"=
nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.com"; target=3D"_blan=
k">dave1massey@cs.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Here are some data for the TR8.=C2=A0 This might be =
close enough for the stag:<br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Temp C=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Temp F=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ori=
g ohms=C2=A0=C2=A0 GTR110 ohms<br clear=3D"none">
50=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 122=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 332=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 290<br clear=
=3D"none">
55=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 131=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 275=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 242<br clear=
=3D"none">
60=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 140=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 227=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 197<br clear=
=3D"none">
65=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 149=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 193=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 169<br clear=
=3D"none">
70=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 158=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 158=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 142<br clear=
=3D"none">
75=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 167=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 134=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 120<br clear=
=3D"none">
80=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 176=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 114=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 102<br clear=
=3D"none">
85=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 185=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 99=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 91<br cl=
ear=3D"none">
90=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 194=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 85=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 77<br cl=
ear=3D"none">
95=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 203=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 74=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 65<br cl=
ear=3D"none">
100=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 212=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 60=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 55<br clear=
=3D"none">
105=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 221=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 51=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 48<br clear=
=3D"none">
110=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 230=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 44=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 41<br clear=
=3D"none">
115=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 239=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 37=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 37<br clear=
=3D"none">
120=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 248=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 32=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 31<br clear=
=3D"none">
125=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 257=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 28=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 28<br clear=
=3D"none">
130=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 266=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 24=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 25<br clear=
=3D"none">
135=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 275=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 21=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 22<br clear=
=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">If you have a source of resistors in this value range=
you can connect them in lieu of the sensor and check the reading to see if=
it is close.</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: Sujit Roy <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:trium=
phstag@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">triumphstag@gmail.com</a>><br clear=
=3D"none">
To: Triumphs <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:triumphs=
@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=
=3D"none">
Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:31 am<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: [TR] Thermal Transmitter Temperature Sender help<br clear=3D"none"=
>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8486622828124494031yiv1465975638m_4638235716154564889yi=
v4365019461m_-1604197066133898725yiv7413154317">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I'm going=C2=A0to try and figure out if my Stag is run=
ning hot. The gauge always reads high=C2=A0
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>I found a note on another forum on how to test the voltage=C2=A0regula=
tor, and another=C2=A0forum how to calibrate the=C2=A0gauge.</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>I'm trying to figure out how to test the=C2=A0Thermal Transmitter =
Temperature Sender. Does anyone have any data on how the resistance=C2=A0ch=
anges with temperature?</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Since=C2=A0most Triumph around the 70's used Smith gauges, I'm=
assuming the data for the=C2=A0
Thermal Transmitter Temperature Sender would be the same.</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Regards, Sujit<br clear=3D"all">
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
-- <br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
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</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
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