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VTR Concours feedback (or lack thereof); was DPO

To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: VTR Concours feedback (or lack thereof); was DPO
From: "Blake J. Discher" <bdischer@blakedischer.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:13:26 -0400
References: <139.2df8fed3.2db7e5b0@aol.com> <000901c427ee$d041f620$bf289145@hosts.bc1.bresnan.net>
At 06:20 PM 4/21/2004, you wrote:
>I am new to this, and will probably never own a concours car.  However, I
>have to ask, when a car is being judged, isn't feedback given?  Or is the
>owner left to guess what they took away points for?

That is correct Joe.  VTR has categories:  interior, exterior, engine bay, 
etc.  Within those categories, on the judging scorecard, point values are 
given to specifics.  You are given a sheet with the totals for each 
category, so to that extent, you know where your cars shortcomings 
are.  For example, if out of 110 points possible for interior, you received 
90 points, you know something (or things) totalling 20 points are incorrect 
for one reason or another, but you don't know specifically which things.

The way I've had it explained to me is that VTR feels that a person 
entering concours should do the research to discover what a car looked like 
when it was new.  Chief Judge Darrell Floyd explains it quite simply but 
eloquently in his judges meetings: "Let's not beat these cars up, everyone 
is here to have a good time."  Of course each judge is his own person and 
subsequently applies that admonishment a bit differently, but the key, I 
feel, is for the judges to apply their fussiness fairly and consistently to 
each car they judge.  Incidentally, the judging form is available on the 
VTR website.  You can see exactly what each specific item is worth.

Some thoughts of mine...

1.  Even if your car will never be a concours car, if you can, get to a VTR 
event, go to the judging school meeting, learn how to judge, and be a 
judge.  I did for the first time last year and learned a lot.  If the same 
people judge year after year, the whole thing gets boring and somewhat 
predictable.

2.  Some of these restorations are better than showroom!  Better than they 
were delivered.  Should that owner be penalized since it is actually not as 
delivered?  I'd say not.

3.  As the amount of time between when these cars were new and the present 
increases, it's harder and harder to determine what was original.  We rely 
on the gurus like Piggott, Macartney, Robson and others I by no means 
intend to slight by not including.  I tend to agree with Lou Metelko that 
VTR needs to at least revisit their policy of not letting people know where 
their cars fall short.  Perhaps they didn't want to have owners complaining 
about specific judges opinions, I don't know.  But here's another 
observation: like any good old boys club, once folks know who you are, 
they'll take you aside and, "wink-wink-you-didn't-hear-it-from-me, but here 
are a couple-a-things I would pay some attention to on your car."

4.  And finally, at last year's VTR, John Macartney came up with a great 
idea for a new award.  I forget what he called it, but it was given to the 
person having a car that while not necessarily concours car, showed very 
clearly that it's owner deeply cared for and DRIVES his vehicle.  Very cool.

I think the bottom line, when it comes to concours judging, as this thread 
has proven, is that there is no way to please everyone.  The folks with 
cars in trailers and the folks that drive their cars cross-country to VTR 
have vastly different ideas of what the judges should regard as 
important.  Mr. Macartney's award addressed the need to recognize the 
I-drive-my-car-dammit! faction.  Perhaps more thinking outside the box is 
called for when it comes to judging and awards.

Cheers,
Blake Discher, Detroit

----
I'll be driving for charity in the 2004 Michigan British Reliability Run!
Info: http://www.mibrr.com

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