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Re: [Tigers] Urban legend

To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel@verizon.net>, Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.net>, Ross Hulse <ross_hulse@sbcglobal.net>, Curt Bowland <cbowland@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Urban legend
From: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell via Tigers" <tigers@autox.team.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:53:24 -0400 (EDT)
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: tigers@autox.team.net
Importance: Medium
References: <DM6PR07MB724294080373CF2A01EF36A7DBE00@DM6PR07MB7242.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAPSnpwmn6yHrrdbsSxsDYV-dtRWkxSbcqM73upf+s4vB5Q3PUQ@mail.gmail.com> <006201d5f577$9bac2080$d3046180$@verizon.net>
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Buck,

Excellent historical data!
Thanks!

Tym McDowell

> On March 8, 2020 at 2:30 PM Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.ne=
t> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>     The best and most authoritative answers to the why the Tiger was disc=
ontinued that I=E2=80=99ve found are in the collection of Papworth papers h=
oused in the Culture Coventry Archive at the Herbert Museum in Coventry.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Mr Papworth was a very high level =E2=80=9Cplanner=E2=80=9D for Roote=
s. He reported to a very select group, comprised mainly of family members w=
ho were the heart of the Rootes board. After his retirement he donated thou=
sands(?) of pages of notes and memos. I=E2=80=99ve spent several days readi=
ng them and want to go back.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Mr. Papworth lays out a very comprehensive Tiger story. The Tiger rep=
resented only 2% of Rootes=E2=80=99 sales and was consequentially just a bl=
ip on management=E2=80=99s attention. Tigers were barely mentioned in board=
 meetings as the high production Imps and Hillmans dominated the discussion=
s. The Mk1s & 1As sold well. The Mk2 that was built was not the Mk2 that th=
e engineers had designed and tested (with upgraded 5-bolt 14=E2=80=9D wheel=
s to fit 4-wheel discs, the same 3-puck calipers used on Aston Martins and =
street Cobras) and the resulting lack of initial sales seemed to be the str=
aw that broke the camel=E2=80=99s back. But Papworth also outlines other co=
ntributing issues.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Rootes engineers determined that Chrysler V8s would not fit in a Tige=
r. They explored alternatives including one that would have been built a ne=
w =E2=80=9CTiger=E2=80=9D with fiberglass body in the USA. Obviously none o=
f those alternatives worked out.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     After Lord Rootes passed away his brother, Reggie, assumed control. R=
eggie wanted to replace the Alpine/Tiger with a smaller sportscar that was =
similar to a Spitfire. That car, =E2=80=9CApex=E2=80=9D, had been designed =
and was very close to production when a sub-contractor tripled the initial =
cost estimate for its fiberglass body. That ended Rootes=E2=80=99 attempt a=
t a replacement sportscar.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     The US government had long imposed standards for the cars it purchase=
d for government use =E2=80=93 the GSA standards. These existing GSA standa=
rds were eventually adopted for all cars sold in the US. The Alpine/Tiger p=
latform would have needed upgrades to comply. Tooling for these would have =
been costly on a per unit basis due to low production volume.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     The space used at Pressed Steel to build the Alpines and Tigers was n=
eeded by another Rootes vehicle which was high production and therefore a h=
igher priority. Assuming Rootes would accept the cost of upgrades to comply=
 with GSA standards, where could the Alpine/Tiger be built? Rootes looked a=
t alternatives including moving the entire Alpine/Tiger production from Pre=
ssed Steel to Jensen. At one point Rootes even offered to purchase Jensen. =
Jensen refused. The move never happened. Rootes never found an alternate co=
ntractor to build the cars.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Papworth cites all of these factors in the decision to end Tiger prod=
uction.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Buck Trippel
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ross Hulse =
via Tigers
>     Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:57 AM
>     To: Curt Bowland <cbowland@msn.com>
>     Cc: tigers <tigers@autox.team.net>
>     Subject: Re: [Tigers] Urban legend
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     The demise of the Sunbeam Tiger was that they did not sell very well.=
  The USA import regs for cars would require expensive modifications to the=
 car.  So in February 1967 the decision was made to finish the cars that we=
re in the line and send them to Canada.  Everything about not fitting a Chr=
ysler engine is just a rumor.=20
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     _______________________________________________
>=20
>     tigers@autox.team.net
>=20
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive
>=20
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tym2@comcas=
t.net
>=20
>=20
>=20



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<!doctype html>
<html>
 <head>=20
  <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
 </head>
 <body>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   Buck,
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   Excellent historical data!
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   Thanks!
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   Tym McDowell
  </div>
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
   On March 8, 2020 at 2:30 PM Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt;tigers@autox.tea=
m.net&gt; wrote:=20
   <br>=20
   <br>
   <div class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-WordSection1">
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">The best and most authoritative an=
swers to the why the Tiger was discontinued that I=E2=80=99ve found are in =
the collection of Papworth papers housed in the Culture Coventry Archive at=
 the Herbert Museum in Coventry.</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">Mr Papworth was a very high level =
=E2=80=9Cplanner=E2=80=9D for Rootes. He reported to a very select group, c=
omprised mainly of family members who were the heart of the Rootes board. A=
fter his retirement he donated thousands(?) of pages of notes and memos. I=
=E2=80=99ve spent several days reading them and want to go back.</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">Mr. Papworth lays out a very compr=
ehensive Tiger story. The Tiger represented only 2% of Rootes=E2=80=99 sale=
s and was consequentially just a blip on management=E2=80=99s attention. Ti=
gers were barely mentioned in board meetings as the high production Imps an=
d Hillmans dominated the discussions. The Mk1s &amp; 1As sold well. The Mk2=
 that was built was not the Mk2 that the engineers had designed and tested =
(with upgraded 5-bolt 14=E2=80=9D wheels to fit 4-wheel discs, the same 3-p=
uck calipers used on Aston Martins and street Cobras) and the resulting lac=
k of initial sales seemed to be the straw that broke the camel=E2=80=99s ba=
ck. But Papworth also outlines other contributing issues.</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">Rootes engineers determined that C=
hrysler V8s would not fit in a Tiger. They explored alternatives including =
one that would have been built a new =E2=80=9CTiger=E2=80=9D with fiberglas=
s body in the USA. Obviously none of those alternatives worked out.</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">After Lord Rootes passed away his =
brother, Reggie, assumed control. Reggie wanted to replace the Alpine/Tiger=
 with a smaller sportscar that was similar to a Spitfire. That car, =E2=80=
=9CApex=E2=80=9D, had been designed and was very close to production when a=
 sub-contractor tripled the initial cost estimate for its fiberglass body. =
That ended Rootes=E2=80=99 attempt at a replacement sportscar.</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">The US government had long imposed=
 standards for the cars it purchased for government use =E2=80=93 the GSA s=
tandards. These existing GSA standards were eventually adopted for all cars=
 sold in the US. The Alpine/Tiger platform would have needed upgrades to co=
mply. Tooling for these would have been costly on a per unit basis due to l=
ow production volume.</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">The space used at Pressed Steel to=
 build the Alpines and Tigers was needed by another Rootes vehicle which wa=
s high production and therefore a higher priority. Assuming Rootes would ac=
cept the cost of upgrades to comply with GSA standards, where could the Alp=
ine/Tiger be built? Rootes looked at alternatives including moving the enti=
re Alpine/Tiger production from Pressed Steel to Jensen. At one point Roote=
s even offered to purchase Jensen. Jensen refused. The move never happened.=
 Rootes never found an alternate contractor to build the cars.</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">Papworth cites all of these factor=
s in the decision to end Tiger production.</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">Buck Trippel</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;<br></p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal"><strong>From:</strong> Tigers &lt;=
tigers-bounces@autox.team.net&gt; <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Ross Hulse =
via Tigers<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:57 AM<br><stro=
ng>To:</strong> Curt Bowland &lt;cbowland@msn.com&gt;<br><strong>Cc:</stron=
g> tigers &lt;tigers@autox.team.net&gt;<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [T=
igers] Urban legend</p>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
    <div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 24.0pt=
; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">The demise of the Sunbeam Tiger wa=
s that they did not sell very well.&nbsp; The USA import regs for cars woul=
d require expensive modifications to the car.&nbsp; So in February 1967 the=
 decision was made to finish the cars that were in the line and send them t=
o Canada.&nbsp; Everything about not fitting a Chrysler engine is just a</s=
pan>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 24.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',=
serif;">rumor.&nbsp;</span></p>
     </div>
    </div>
    <p class=3D"ox-d381c2097f-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
   </div>_______________________________________________=20
   <br>=20
   <br>tigers@autox.team.net=20
   <br>=20
   <br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
   <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/=
archive=20
   <br>=20
   <br>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tym2@comca=
st.net=20
   <br>=20
   <br>=20
   <br>
  </blockquote>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
   <br>&nbsp;
  </div>=20
 </body>
</html>
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