Tigers, and Mr. "Owner" of Central Valley Classics, anonymous,
Below is the message received from Central Valley Classics, without the
identification of the person sending the message. This is in response
to my message he quoted.
As any dispassionate reading of my original message will reveal, a
simple question was raised on knowledge of authenticity, and no charge
was made of "slander", or "misrepresentation".
His reply is defensive, and offensive. He attacks the owner's of
original classics from questioning authenticity. He attacks Norman for
trying to keep things sorted out. He makes intimations of threats that
are ludicrous, and he has removed the picture (subsequent postings) from
his site.
Regardless of his defense that he is only a poster of other peoples ads,
the information is not ascribed to anyone but his own posting. Even
then, as a merchant wanting to maintain the interests of all he promotes
and represents, he ought to take to heart any question that the offering
may be misrepresenting the merchandise, and is not in accordance with
Motor Vehicle Identification law.
In spite of his poor communication, and implied threats, the tone of the
note and his subsequent actions imply concern.
Good. He should be concerned. Being a "broker", as he implies, instead
of an owner, does not relieve him of the need to act responsibly. This
is especially true if significant concerns have been surfaced. A polite
reply, rather than a lot of flailing and hollow threats, would have been
more appropriate. Some concern for his own reputation does not seem to
be of concern to him, although a reading of his response tells much.
I have no idea what his problem is with bashing Norman, Sean, Larry,
Jensen, Rootes, or the many other inquiries he received. It seems
overly hostile and defensive when simple questions have been asked
concerning his knowledge of the authenticity of his representations. A
lot of flailing, name calling, and un-businesslike conduct on his part,
in my opinion.
These are my views of his response, and do not necessarily represent
those of anyone else. On the other hand, there may be many who see this
the same way I do. If there are those who want to overspend on an
imitation car, fine. That is their privilege. But, it should be a
knowledgeable decision, not one based on misinformation and misdirection.
Thanks to those on the list who have asked, with sincerity, whether his
offering for sale (directly on his web site, and perhaps on behalf of
and un-named client) is legitimate, legal, and as represented.
All fair questions to which any legitimate businessman would be glad to
respond.
Steve
-----
Steve Laifman
Editor
http://www.TigersUnited.com
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Central Valley Classics wrote:
>
>Steve,
>
>As the editor of a "Top Rated" Alpine website, you should not get any of
>your facts from Sean Ford. We are not a "dealer", henceforth we are not
>misguided and we only advertise vehicles for their respective owners. You
>might want to lump us in the same category as the classifieds in the
>newspaper or Auto Trader, after all we are just a marketing company. The
>owners fill out an information sheet on the car, sign it to the accuracy and
>we post their information. We have legal disclaimers on our website to let
>you know the content is only for informational purposes and we do not verify
>information. Of course as any marketing company we charge for listing the
>vehicle. Now a "Dealer" owns the vehicle they are selling and are solely
>responsible for their content, actually goes along with the truth in
>advertising laws. And lastly we are not a broker as we do not charge
>commissions to sell vehicles. I see the DMV inspectors from time to time and
>have nothing to hide from them, they already know what we do. I wonder if
>all Tiger transactions have disclosed the full selling prices to all Motor
>Vehicle departments for tax purposes? I worked in and have managed different
>departments in automobile dealerships and probably as or more aware of those
>laws than you seem to be.
>
>Now I asked an associate (an assistant DA) on the next subject that I want
>to touch on "slander". I have seen and reproduced documentation that
>specifically calls that offense into play, litigation under the civil code
>of the law is an option to me. I have seen and he agreed with me about some
>harassment and what could be considered a threat to blackmail my self into
>following along with certain peoples wishes if I don't comply, punishable
>under the criminal code of the law. I really don't want to get involved with
>complicated and expensive (specifically for the perpetrators) civil or
>criminal suit, but for the sake of stopping the harassment and other
>offenses, I will get my attorney involved.
>
>I only ask that anyone that wants to find out the authenticity of any
>vehicle to get a third party to verify it. Prior to seeing any verification
>in writing and by an unbiased third party, I would believe the owner of the
>car that signed his or her name to our information sheet. What is up with
>Normy's verified cars that don't have any VIN numbers??? I guess those
>"salvage" title cars count??? I know that without a VIN tag and/or fender
>tag/build sheet that Galen Govier wouldn't touch a Mopar with a ten foot
>pole to verify it. I know that my friend's Yenko Camaro wouldn't have even
>been looked at with out the VIN. And I know that the information that I read
>on Norman's website leaves a lot of verification up to his opinion, he
>wasn't there to see these built and surely he didn't build any. I remember
>reading in one description that the car had signs of the way they looked to
>be built by the Jensen people. I think that Norman C Miller has a vested
>interest in making sure this car stays on his little "Alger" list as he has
>already dubbed the car as a fake and any change would hurt his reputation as
>the "Expert". I am also sick of the little "crybaby" Sean Ford whining in my
>ear and around town. I really think that Freud would agree... this sounds
>like a jealousy thing... this one is nicer than yours.
>
>I have been dealing with classic cars for more than 25 years, my knowledge
>spans more than one manufacturer and model. I have seen a few of the
>"Experts" proven wrong and probably haven't seen the last one. I do not
>claim to be an expert on the Alpine Tiger, nor do I specifically want to be
>associated with the type of people that have contacted me regarding this
>car. I am well educated on classics and can spot many fakes and some fake
>"Experts". I have read many articles that make reference to all Tigers being
>"worked over" Alpines from the Jensen factory and for the $10K Carol Shelby
>was paid... it's conceivably true. Actually I don't care, the car is what it
>is. Preserve all you want, the market demands cars that are not authentic...
>the majority of the people don't care. I am looking into having a Cuda coupe
>made into a convertible as I personally do not want to pay what they want
>for a real Cuda convertible and there is a company out there that
>specializes in just that conversion, another one does Camaro's. Ask yourself
>why there are more 57 Chevy Bel Air convertible today than were built and
>these cars are fetching in the $50K+ range, people are lined up to buy them.
>
>I am very disappointed that there are a group of people that act childish
>and then send their phony little child emails, GROW UP! If you have a
>problem complain to the DMV, hire a lawyer but stop bothering and slandering
>me and my business. Please, as an ex rocket scientist, I would hope you are
>smarter than that. I think you need to tell your friend from Con Tech, Larry
>Paulick to stop playing with the finance page (IP addresses don't lie). How
>about we publish all of this in a national magazine, with your names and
>professions also and see if it matters to the majority of the people in this
>country if there are "real or fake" Tigers in the world. Only your group
>really cares and I think that bothers you, the average person that shows up
>at one of your shows doesn't know a real from a fake, can't count those 500
>or so club members though. You don't want to admit that someone might just
>buy this car because its a well done restoration and they might want it
>because it looks cool and goes fast, biggest motivation for the majority
>buyer (ego). every one that comes in our showroom and inquires about the
>car, I tell them about the controversy ( I will have more names to discuss
>and more laughs with my customers) and a most have said "so what, it looks
>fast".
>
>I hope you take advantage of the recommendation presented to you and your
>associates to assure you are not committing any civil or criminal
>violations, knowingly, or through any misguided actions of others. I guess
>that you could be held liable for someone else's actions as a result of your
>actions to seek what you refer to as the "truth", you admittedly sent out
>the call to arms in your email to me. Sincerely wishing you good fortune in
>honest dealings, and that your publication is only full of fully verified
>facts, big brother is watching.
>
>Regards,
>
>Owner
>Central Valley Classics
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