Steve,
With all due respect, you are REALLY reaching here...
Congratulations on tracking down a rare piece of Rootes replacement
part history but, Norm is correct, the original filter that was factory
supplied was plastic/metal-topped not ALL metal.
I was skeptical at first too, Norm's picture is of a car with LAT
valve covers, maybe they changed the filter while they were "working"
on it?
But all you have to do is look in the books for the contemporary photos,
EVERY SINGLE ONE that has a filter visible has the plastic one, just take
a look! This filter has a very distinctive concentric ridge around the top
where the plastic is crimped into the metal top.
For pictures you can see:
Sunbeam Alpine and Tiger by Graham Robson, pg. 98
Tiger The Making of a Sports Car by Mike Taylor, pg.64
Sunbeam Tiger and Alpiine Gold Portfolio, Brooklands Books, pg. 57, 84,
75(Norm's picture?),76,79,82,84,94,104,108....more but my old eyes are
tired!
AND, the most AMAZING evidence is the filter I found out in my garage...
Yes, now while I can not positively guarantee that this is the original
filter, I do know for a fact that it was on my car when I bought it in 1971,
in a condition that sure looked like it had never been changed!
It has a rusty metal top (like someone else described) 3 or 4 "TO CARB"
arrows, and on the bottom the words "MADE IN ISREAL"!! Whoa, a whole new
topic, "is the tiger really kosher?"...
But no FoMoCo numbers or logos.. gee, do you think they could of put in some
cheap locally sourced filter instead?? I wonder what my little find will
fetch on E-BAY?
Hacksaw Gary..the guy that threw most of his house in the dumpster when he
moved 3 years ago, but saved a worn out lead-contaminated old fuel filter ;-)
> Tom,
>
> Thanks for your points on my "prose". You pose an interesting set of
> observations that could, and should, be evaluated.
>
> I will add the portion of information I have:
>
> 1) The "Supplement" in the parts list identifies that publication as an
> "addition" to the existing "Rootes Sunbeam Parts Manual" that only
> covered the Alpine version when first released. The Supplement only
> covers the parts unique to the "260", or Tiger. Together, they make a
> VERY large reference book covering every part on both cars.
>
> 2) The "Supplement" was written and distributed within Rootes, and to
> dealers, coincident with the introduction of the Tiger. It may be noted
> that this is "2nd Issue", as it adds to the original. previous Sunbeam
> Alpine tome. It is clearly dated, on the front cover, as JANUARY 1965,
> and is marked to commence applicability with B9470001. This is not new
> data, but original, 1965 contemporary factory issue.
>
> 3) Although the engine build contract was given to the Ford Industrial
> Engine Division, it is reasonable to expect that the Industrial Division
> assembled the orders from Rootes from the appropriate Ford parts
> manufacturing centers. They were set up for custom engine assembly
> line, and special ordered unique items as the right exhaust manifold,
> water pump with reversed hub, and generator support brackets, etc. It is
> not reasonable to expect that they replicated existing Ford parts
> manufacturing lines, but custom assembled selected production items
> according to ordered configuration. This prevents disrupting larger
> automobile engine plant production assembly lines with "special orders".
> The Industrial Group was smaller, and used to special order assembly
> runs. They were not a parts manufacturing or casting operation.
>
> 4) While it is certainly a possibility that, at some early point, Ford
> (not Rootes) could have changed the design of a plastic filter housed
> to a metal exterior filter, this same filter was used on 1961 - 1972
> Falcons, T-Birds, Broncos, and Fairlanes. There should be an impressive
> group of collectors with those cars, as well as a large production run.
> I wonder if they have information on this? HOWEVER, it is also a
> possibility that early production was short shipped the filters, and
> Rootes substituted locally made generic filters to keep the lines going,
> and the orders shipped. This is just speculation, but not unheard of in
> production lines. It could account for the differences of observations
> that were seen.
>
> 5) The telling clue, to me, is the lack of ANY Ford markings on the
> versions of plastic bodied filters I have seen, so far. Ford, as well
> as most manufacturers, clearly place their logo (if not complete part or
> stocking number) on every part they make or sell. Even tiny ones. My
> rotor, points, condenser, spark plug wires, are clearly imprinted with
> "Ford", "FoMoCo", "Motorsport" or other trade names. Even the parts bin
> tiny parts are bagged or tagged with source information. (Yes,
> including the Rootes VIN rivets!!!!) Standard nuts and bolts are not,
> but special grade steel are at least uniquely marked per S.A.E. and
> bagged/tagged.
>
> This is to assure source trace ability for any quality control issues,
> field failure analyses, or even legal liability. It also helps the
> Service Department get the right replacement part, amongst all they
> carry. There is no physical reason that the metal filter has always
> been the correct Ford replacement part under that number. On the other
> hand, there isn't any functional reason that the plastic units should
> not also be source and number identified as the manual states, with the
> Factory Part or Stocking Number and SOURCE - (if they came from Ford).
>
> Tom, thank you for your clearly stated points, all of which still have
> not been completely answered. But then, we are searching for the truth
> are we no?. This task does not come easily, nor without effort. Clearly
> additional research is necessary, and I should not be the only one doing
> so. Let's spread the credit and the blame. I've absorbed my fair share
> for innocently trying to help.
>
> Steve
>
> Tom Witt wrote:
>
> >Could it be that:
> >
> >A. Tigers came with the clear/metal filter, BUT the subsequent Ford
> >replacement filter is C2RZ-9155-A, an all metal filter? Meaning that these
> >engines came from an industrial branch of Ford and perhaps the clear/metal
> >filter was the "commom" filter used under that industrial application. Thus,
> >the Tigers were shipped with that clear/metal filter. HOWEVER, when one went
> >to the a Rootes dealership, Ford dealership, or parts store the all metal
> >C2RZ-9155-A was the filter readily available. Could it be Rootes was actually
> >on the ball in this matter ?
> >Steve got his information from:
> >
> > >>>the authentic Rootes PARTS LIST SUPPLEMENT for the SUNBEAM "260""<<<
> >and
> >
> >
> >>>>the "Rootes Pat Number" is 6100034, and a corresponding Ford Part Number
>is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >given as C2RZ-9155-A.<<<
> >
> >Perhaps the operative words here are "supplement" and "corresponding"
> >Therefore, Steve's extensive search would bring one result (based on the
> >filter number) and anyone still posessing their original filter would offer
> >another.
> >
> >B. OR, could it be that Ford used the same number for two filters? The
> >reasoning being that the all metal design was a direct replacement for the
> >clear/metal type, the inlet/outlet sizes were the same, the external
> >dimensions were similar and the filtering capabilities were the same.
> >Therefore, did Ford to avoid confusion (with a different part number for the
> >same application) just keep the same part number but offer a different
> >appearing filter?
> >
> >No proof of either is offered on my part, only suggesting reasons why a
> >picture tells one story and an extensive search via a part number tells
> >another. It would be interesting to know the part number of that "original
> >from the car" filter that a someone still has.
> >
> >Tom Witt B9470101
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Steve Laifman
> Editor
> http://www.TigersUnited.com
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