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My read of the relevant section of the NEC (770.133) indicates that where
there are circuits under 1000V, the cable I'm going to pull (non-conductive
optical fiber cable) is allowed. I'll check with my electrician before I
proceed, in any case, as (in the same section) I can't have the fiber in
the electrical panel/box itself.
-Peter
On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 6:04 AM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate@gmail.com> wrote=
:
> "...I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that
> escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend
> to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this
> summer. "
>
> I know you can't mix medium-voltage and low voltage cables in the same
> conduit. Can you run fiber with the electric service? Is that a good
> idea?
>
> -- Jeff
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:41 PM Peter Murray <peterwmurray@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > John-
> >
> > How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?
> >
> > I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and
> have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about
> 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable
> connection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As other=
s
> have pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operatin=
g
> on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss=
,
> but a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be
> surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would
> connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your
> router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can get
> versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you ca=
n
> adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are als=
o
> network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that the
> network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place sever=
al
> wherever you need them, and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I
> like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a
> couple of ports are wicked handy.
> >
> > In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from
> the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about
> 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one
> building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the tw=
o
> locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focu=
s
> the power available to increase your link budget and "burn through" the
> vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty
> cheap on Amazon) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of
> throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield
> better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a =
12
> degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the
> available power is focused where you want it.
> >
> > When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the
> service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right n=
ow
> - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made
> 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it u=
p
> at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, t=
he
> ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional
> copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or
> lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna.
> LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.
> >
> > If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet
> maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in
> flexible conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place.
> You don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line=
-
> goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS
> don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outf=
it
> before you dig.
> >
> > Happy to talk further!
> >
> > -Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached
> shop building... just a shade too far for cable access (just under 300
> feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> >> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units... two
> boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plu=
gs
> into any other plug on same
> >> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
> >>
> >> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
> >>
> >> example:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D=
1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9=
d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D=
265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv=
%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp2047=
675.c101196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d8=
1de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8=
baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0R=
JbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVM=
t6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sY=
l6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3c=
DN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D11864265=
81
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> john
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation $12.96
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray@gmail.com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com
> >
>
--0000000000004278fb05dc763a07
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">My read of the relevant section of the NEC (<span style=3D=
"color:rgb(38,38,38);font-size:13px">770.133) indicates that where there ar=
e circuits under 1000V, the cable I'm going to pull (non-conductive opt=
ical fiber cable) is allowed. I'll check with my electrician before I p=
roceed, in any case, as (in the same section) I can't have the fiber in=
the electrical panel/box itself.</span><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,38=
,38);font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,38,3=
8);font-size:13px">-Peter</span></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 6:04 AM Jeff =
Scarbrough <<a href=3D"mailto:fishplate@gmail.com";>fishplate@gmail.com</=
a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&q=
uot;...I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that<br=
>
escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend<b=
r>
to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this<br>
summer. "<br>
<br>
I know you can't mix medium-voltage and low voltage cables in the same<=
br>
conduit.=C2=A0 Can you run fiber with the electric service?=C2=A0 Is that a=
good<br>
idea?<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:41 PM Peter Murray <<a href=3D"mailto:peterwm=
urray@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">peterwmurray@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br=
>
><br>
> John-<br>
><br>
> How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?<br>
><br>
> I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and=
have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 2=
00' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable conne=
ction between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have =
pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating o=
n the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, b=
ut a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wou=
ldn't be surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you=
. I would connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on=
your router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can g=
et versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you c=
an adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are al=
so network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that the net=
work-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place severa=
l wherever you need them, and they'll act like additional ethernet port=
s. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a =
couple of ports are wicked handy.<br>
><br>
> In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded=
" from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yie=
lds about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' =
from one building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble lin=
king the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but y=
ou can focus the power available to increase your link budget and "bur=
n through" the vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam=
Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon) - they'll get you somewhere around=
250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage=
will yield better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They hav=
e about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your ai=
m, but the available power is focused where you want it.<br>
><br>
> When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the se=
rvice run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now -=
didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-=
strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it u=
p at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, t=
he ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventiona=
l copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or=
lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LA=
NShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.<br>
><br>
> If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your e=
thernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I&#=
39;d put it in flexible conduit, guessing that you don't already have c=
onduit in place. You don't really even need to worry about putting it b=
elow the frost line - goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company=
) and Verizon FiOS don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local=
utility marking outfit before you dig.<br>
><br>
> Happy to talk further!<br>
><br>
> -Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <<a href=3D"mailto:jnio=
lon@att.net" target=3D"_blank">jniolon@att.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to =
my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access=C2=A0 =
(just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless<br>
>> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...=C2=A0 two =
boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs=
into any other plug on same<br>
>> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..<br>
>><br>
>> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??<br>
>><br>
>> example:<br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclk=
src%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3=
D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%=
26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26p=
g%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGE=
AR&_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d=
4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzu=
CsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnx=
kDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252=
FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0=
chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hP=
o%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp=
%3A2047675&epid=3D1186426581" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001=
8%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b=
8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638=
365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DIte=
mStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp204767=
5.c101196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84=
d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeV=
o8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH=
0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0s=
VMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5=
sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX=
3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D11=
86426581</a><br>
>><br>
>> thanks<br>
>> john<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Shop=
-talk@autox.team.net</a><br>
>> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
>> Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96<br>
>> Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk"; rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</=
a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
>><br>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/shop-talk/peterwmurray@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray@gmail.com</a><b=
r>
>><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Shop-tal=
k@autox.team.net</a><br>
> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=3D"noreferrer"=
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
> Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96<br>
> Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk"; rel=3D"no=
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><br>
</blockquote></div>
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_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
--===============6875536749797801718==--
|