Neil what Dave is referring to is the requirement to shut the car off... I
don't think a Cam Corder battery counts.... what does count is anything
that could feed the main power supply in any way.... if the Detection
system was separate I don't think it would be an issue... but Dan can
answer that question...
The two of these really should be separate issues.... Fire detection and
Fire suppression... I have never really thought about a detection system
until I drove the rear engined car.... and it might have some real merit in
this application...
Like Skip I've enjoyed the discussion... thanks for adding to it Neil....
Keith
----------
> From: Albaugh, Neil <albaugh_neil@ti.com>
> To: 'ddahlgren@snet.net'
> Cc: 'Higginbotham Land Speed Racing' <saltrat@pro-blend.com>;
landspeedracer <landspeedracer@msn.com>; land-speed@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: Solid suspension and visibility comments
> Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 12:02 PM
>
> I can't argue with the Tech Inspectors or the rule book. It is possible
(and
> desirable from a safety standpoint IMHO) to "diode- OR" the main 12V
battery
> & electrical power distribution buss with a small NiCad or Gelcell backup
> battery that would operate only the fire detection and actuation system.
A
> "diode- OR" connection simply consists of two diodes that "steer" the
> current from whichever battery is working. It also prevents one battery
> short circuit from draining the other one. A very small battery
(protected
> by a 1A circuit breaker) should be pretty low risk. But-- if it's not
legal,
> it's not legal.
>
> On- board data acquisition systems and even video cameras have
batteries--
> how are these handled in the rule book?
>
> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Dahlgren [mailto:ddahlgren@snet.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:45 AM
> To: Albaugh, Neil
> Cc: 'Higginbotham Land Speed Racing'; landspeedracer;
> land-speed@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: Solid suspension and visibility comments
>
>
> you have to put all the power through the safety switch to turn the car
off.
> if
> you have a fire and a dead short that pulls the main battery down all the
> batteries will be dead not just the main one. If you have a battery that
is
> not
> on the main switch and it is found i don't think you will pass tech.. hey
my
> opinion and mine alone for what little it is worth..
> Dave
>
> "Albaugh, Neil" wrote:
> >
> > Dave;
> >
> > Not necessarily. It depends on where you place the wiring and small
backup
> > battery. Think of a fire suppression system as a critical system on a
> > fighter that must survive battle damage-- redundency and routing
systems
> > through less- vulnerable areas certainly helps. The routing of
hydraulic
> > (brake) lines, chute release lines and critical electrical wiring, etc.
> all
> > need to be carefully thought out with an eye toward where a fire is
most
> > likely to occur and where it will do the most damage at speed. Things
like
> > fire sleeves can help lines survive for a bit longer than if they are
> bare.
> >
> > When all is said & done, I agree with you-- I'd still like to have the
> > option of a manually- operated mechanical linkage to actuate my fire-
> > suppression system but it would be in addition to the automatic system.
As
> > they say, "Simplicity is Golden; complexity for it's own sake is a
> pain..."
> >
> > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Dahlgren [mailto:ddahlgren@snet.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:18 AM
> > To: Albaugh, Neil
> > Cc: 'Higginbotham Land Speed Racing'; landspeedracer;
> > land-speed@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: Solid suspension and visibility comments
> >
> > Wouldn't common sense tell you that if there is a fire than you have to
> > assume
> > the electric stuff is all dead???
> > I would have to also believe that a mechanical linkage or actuator
would
> be
> > mandatory for the same reason or if not at least for personal safety...
> >
> > Dave Dahlgren
> >
> > "Albaugh, Neil" wrote:
> > >
> > > The automatic actuation can be through a latching relay; once on it
> stays
> > > on.
> > >
> > > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Higginbotham Land Speed Racing [mailto:saltrat@pro-blend.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 4:11 PM
> > > To: landspeedracer; Albaugh, Neil; land-speed@autox.team.net
> > > Subject: Re: Solid suspension and visibility comments
> > >
> > > And once you activate the switch it will stay on.
> > > Skip
> > >
> > > At 05:24 PM 10/30/01 -0500, landspeedracer wrote:
> > > >Remember Guys, with on/off switches or valves, as per the SCTA rule
> book:
> > > >"The valves shall be designed to remain open once actuated."
> > > >
> > > >John B.
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat@pro-blend.com>
> > > >To: "Albaugh, Neil" <albaugh_neil@ti.com>;
<land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:08 AM
> > > >Subject: RE: Solid suspension and visibility comments
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Neil,
> > > >> The problem with resistance wire systems is false alarms.......not
a
> > good
> > > >> idea at 300 MPH +. Too hard on the heart! And IR systems are a
little
> > > >> pricey for me.
> > > >> Auto fire extinguishing is OK if you don't want to control the
> > > >extinguisher
> > > >> manually. I do. I feel like I can turn on the fire bottles until
the
> > fire
> > > >> is out and if I'm not stopped yet, I can turn off the fire bottles
> and
> > > >save
> > > >> the agent for later in the shut-down if the fire relights or was
not
> > out
> > > >to
> > > >> begin with. Also manual control might let me breathe in the small
> > > >> cockpit!!! Too subtile?
> > > >> Hard to reason with a fire that is behind you though!!! Auto
system
> > might
> > > >> be the best in the long run. I worry about false actuation.......
> > > >> Skip
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> At 09:50 AM 10/30/01 -0600, you wrote:
> > > >> >Skip;
> > > >> >
> > > >> >That's a good idea. You could probably wire that into a solenoid-
> > > >operated
> > > >> >valve to actuate the fire bottles automatically, too.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >I've seen some aircraft fire detection systems that are based on
a
> > wire
> > > >that
> > > >> >changes resistance. Some of the newer flame detectors sense
> > ultraviolet
> > > >> >radiation so they aren't confused by IR heat radiation from the
> > > >collectors
> > > >> >or other hot spots.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >-----Original Message-----
> > > >> >From: Skip Higginbotham [mailto:saltrat@pro-blend.com]
> > > >> >Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 5:54 PM
> > > >> >To: Albaugh, Neil; land-speed@autox.team.net
> > > >> >Subject: RE: Solid suspension and visibility comments
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Neil,
> > > >> >I have a fire detection system in the liner/lakester. Turns a
bright
> > red
> > > >> >light on in the cockpit. No false alarms yet.
> > > >> >Skip
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