Well I'm not sure if you got my point ,but I'm very sure I no longer get
the point of this endeavor from your perspective.I have no desire to
"unseat" anyone's B'ville record by running over it at Maxton-although I
do enjoy doing that.I thought the big idea here was to establish a
credible set of standards which if adherred to at various locations
could
be used to establish a "fastest in class" standard across venues without
changing or endangering any of the local records.If the point is simply
to
make it easier for people running at B'ville to establish some sort of
international record that's a credible goal, but I don't see it as very
usefull to those of us who don't,won't or can't get to the promised land
to "test their mettle against a higher standard".Count me out of the
"someone who cares" contingent.
Tim Schoeny
.
\"LandSpeed\" Louise Ann Noeth wrote:
> AH HA!
>
> So here is one of the reasons we are exploring the "records" subject.
>
> If I have this figured right, Tim figures that if he exceeds a speed
> at Maxton set at Bonneville, or the dirt, then his record rules the
> class.
>
> Now Tim, If I have screwed this up, straighten me out.
>
> If I have not, then what we have is the various, very salient point
> raised by Tom Bryant about apples and oranges. If you vehicle smashes
> a salt record at Maxton, then you best get your butt and the beast to
> the salt and prove it. Otherwise, all you have done is exceeded a
> speed at a particular track, but you have NOT unseated the current
> record holder.
>
> Having said that. If you ran under a standard set of international
> rules for a world record, then you can claim that honor -- but still,
> you have not unseated the class record holder unless you do the deed
> where they did the deed.
>
> The more I think about this, the more I believe that class records at
> a particular venue are sacred and sacrosanct to that piece of real
> estate. As such, nothing, no record, no exit speed, no 1/4 speed can
> usurp that achievement.
>
> For those who wish to test their mettle/metal against a higher
> standard, there is the subject of world records, an achievement
> tougher to realize, but that much more satisfying when having done so.
>
> Ask Al Teague, Bill Summers or the Vesco brothers. When they speak of
> the moment, there is a reverence in their voice, a humbleness in their
> manner and gratitude towards everyone that helped them to get there.
>
> This is the type of record opportunity I believe can be made more
> readily available to the "common racer" not just "those with the big
> bucks."
>
> Speedy Regards,
>
> "LandSpeed" Louise Ann Noeth
>
> LandSpeed Productions
> Telling stories with words and pictures
> ------------------------o0o--------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Amo" <jkamo@rapidnet.com>
> To: "tim schoeny" <tschoen@fuse.net>
> Cc: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>; "Malcolm Pittwood"
> <MPittwood@compuserve.com>; "LSR List" <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 7:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Recap on 'World Records Topic'
>
> > Tim, Respectfully, please remember you cant "take out a current
> > SCTA/BNI record" with a pass at Maxton. 132 speed trap is FAR from
> a
> > 5280 ft speed trap. Joe :)
> >
> > tim schoeny wrote:
> >
> > > Ok lets try a real-world test of this idea this Spring.I'll try to
> take out a
> > > current SCTA/BNI record that was set at B'ville-but I'll do it at
> Maxton by at
> > > least 1% and make a backup run(in the same direction of course)
> and then
> > > interested parties can debate what this all means in the context
> of a "world
> > > standard" record attempt.Anybody interested?
> > >
> Tim Schoeny
> > >
> > > John Beckett wrote:
> > >
> > > > List
> > > >
> > > > Don't see how this idea can get any less threatening than this.
> > > >
> > > > John Beckett
> > > > #79, Worlds Fastest Chevette
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Joe Amo" <jkamo@rapidnet.com>
> > > > To: "Malcolm Pittwood" <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
> > > > Cc: "LSR List" <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 8:18 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Recap on 'World Records Topic'
> > > >
> > > > > Malcom,
> > > >
> > > > > I especially like
> > > > >
> > > > > """Any new single worldwide body ( a streamlined group with
> little
> > > > bureaucracy
> > > > > and minimal overheads) would not take over from any existing
> group or
> > > > > organisation and NONE of the records set under conditions used
> in the past
> > > > > years - 8, 60 or 100 - would be thrown out or dismissed in any
> way.
> > > > Indeed
> > > > > the current bodies may continue their historical methods for
> ever more.
> > > > As
> > > > > long as racers want to run to them they will continue."""
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Malcolm Pittwood wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Tim and the List,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With so many mailings and a few 'offshoot' topics I thought
> I should try
> > > > to
> > > > > > summarise to date what I understand the
> aim/desire/wish/dream of all
> > > > this
> > > > > > chat was about. I present my summary on the basis of a few
> statements
> > > > of
> > > > > > 'fact' (well they may just have been said long enough so as
> to be
> > > > accepted
> > > > > > as ...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The FIA as a Governing Body is considered by the majority
> of land
> > > > speed
> > > > > > racers to be unable to meet the needs of racers who wish to
> claim Worlds
> > > > > > Best Speeds or 'World Records'. The FIA rules do not
> embrace all types
> > > > of
> > > > > > race vehicles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The FIM as a Governing body is only slightly better at
> meeting
> > > > two/three
> > > > > > wheel racers needs, but they demand a high $ price for
> sanctioning
> > > > attempts
> > > > > > and approving records.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The FIA and FIM Land Speed Records are (after 100 years)
> seen to
> > > > remain
> > > > > > reputable record achievements accepted world wide, because
> of these
> > > > > > organisations regulations for making an attempt.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The SCTA/BNI has had to run most events at Bonneville to
> meet racers
> > > > > > needs and to fit with the salt conditions and these do not
> accord with
> > > > any
> > > > > > other groups 'standards'. The speeds are accurate but are
> not
> > > > comparable
> > > > > > with FIA/FIM or, to some extent, even Bonneville's own past
> rules
> > > > records.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The SCTA/BNI is a National American group that for 60
> years has
> > > > organised
> > > > > > Land Speed Racing Events and Land Speed Record Attempts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The USFRA organises a US racing event on the salt flats
> and their
> > > > > > records, classes etc are attuned with the SCTA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The ECTA is a more recent group that organises Land Speed
> Racing
> > > > events
> > > > > > at Maxton in the USA (on the east coast) to rules that are
> appropriate
> > > > for
> > > > > > that airfield location and to suit US National Car and bike
> > > > classifications
> > > > > > (SCTA).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The Motor Sport Association of the UK governs British
> National
> > > > attempts
> > > > > > (and International FIA attempts) to the operating standards
> of the FIA,
> > > > but
> > > > > > nationally over shorter timed distances ie Less than a mile
> or kilo).
> > > > Most
> > > > > > UK racers are used to organising private record attempts for
> single
> > > > > > vehicles with all that is entailed and the big # sterling
> bills.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * The DLRA in Australia organises an event for Land Speed
> Racers at Lake
> > > > > > Gairdner using regulations based on SCTA/BNI rules and
> standards.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * In the recent past, the Land Speed Authority (LSA) was
> created in the
> > > > USA
> > > > > > to be an International accrediting body for Land Speed
> Attempts (2 or
> > > > more
> > > > > > wheels). This body was not accepted by the FIA and did not
> gain much
> > > > racer
> > > > > > support and exists in name only today. Its influence and
> recognition
> > > > did
> > > > > > not spread beyond the USA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As we are just entering the 21st Century, the idea was
> suggested that
> > > > 'open
> > > > > > minds' on the LSR LIst could arrive at a Land Speed Attempt
> STANDARD
> > > > that
> > > > > > could be used anywhere in the world. Any record set
> anywhere to this
> > > > > > standard, if it was the fastest, would be accepted by racers
> as a 'World
> > > > > > Record'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The minds of the LSR List have put forward many comments on
> the topic.
> > > > The
> > > > > > chat has reached the stage (my assessment) when if there is
> ever going
> > > > to
> > > > > > be a Unified Speed Record community then Standards have to
> be developed,
> > > > > > put in print, discussed and accepted. This will take time
> and much
> > > > effort.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any new single worldwide body ( a streamlined group with
> little
> > > > bureaucracy
> > > > > > and minimal overheads) would not take over from any existing
> group or
> > > > > > organisation and NONE of the records set under conditions
> used in the
> > > > past
> > > > > > years - 8, 60 or 100 - would be thrown out or dismissed in
> any way.
> > > > Indeed
> > > > > > the current bodies may continue their historical methods for
> ever more.
> > > > As
> > > > > > long as racers want to run to them they will continue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IF a new body is formed that meets the wishes of speed
> racers around the
> > > > > > World, then in years to come it will maintain a full list of
> World
> > > > Record
> > > > > > Speeds relevant to this century and accepted by the racers
> themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As any organisation will be faced with costs ($s or #s or
> Lira etc..)
> > > > then
> > > > > > fees (dues) will have to be paid (unless an overall
> commercial sponsor
> > > > is
> > > > > > acceptable). Even with a great volunteer effort nothing can
> be free.
> > > > > > However the amounts should be low as it will be a STANDARDS
> Authority
> > > > not a
> > > > > > club and organisers of events/attempts anywhere across the
> world will be
> > > > > > asked to contribute something (pay!!).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tim wanted to know the benefits and to know specific
> answers - here are
> > > > > > mine:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Benefit: - Car Speed Racers anywhere in the world running
> cars of a type
> > > > > > that are not streamliners (say 97%+) would be able to set
> World Records
> > > > to
> > > > > > an Internationally accepted Standard. (Bikers would gain
> less as FIM
> > > > > > recognise many types of machine).
> > > > > > Who will lose? Only those who do not wish to recognise that
> the World
> > > > > > extends beyond their own country when their claims to being
> the Worlds
> > > > > > fastest are no longer accepted.
> > > > > > Will ECTA/SCTA/USFRA accept a new standard? I cannot answer
> that as I
> > > > am
> > > > > > not a member of any of these organisations or the clubs
> within them. If
> > > > > > they do not embrace the new Standards then that is their
> committees
> > > > choice.
> > > > > > Nothing will be forced on them.
> > > > > > Do racers want this? I do not know - we have not voted
> (another poll
> > > > for
> > > > > > landracing.com, Jonathan). I would think that 21st century
> racers would
> > > > > > like to run to 21st century standards. If we do not set
> something down
> > > > in
> > > > > > print now, no one will ever know. I would have thought that
> many people
> > > > > > would like to have their efforts recognised worldwide.
> > > > > > More Rules? & Higher Costs? Perhaps different rules for
> some already
> > > > > > racing but not more. I would favour less rules than any
> group before,
> > > > but
> > > > > > that may not be possible. Higher costs? There will be a
> cost to run
> > > > any
> > > > > > organising group (unless it takes on commercial sponsorship)
> and those
> > > > > > competing to its rules will foot the bill. However, these
> costs may be
> > > > > > instead of paying money to others, it will depend on the
> circumstances
> > > > > > around the World. If an event can operate to 'all'
> standards then the
> > > > > > racers costs will not increase.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England.
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