Louise, your LAST paragraph, to me is the epitome of this discussion,
nicely put.
In response to "presuming of course, you set any record": well we did, a
two way average
over the flying mile of 191.5mph, this one liter record is greater than
the existing FIM
two way flying mile average or 188mph. Mine was sanctioned by an
organization
with more experience in landspeed trials than any in the universe and time
of
mankind.
WHo is more reputable: an organization with more experience
and knowledge, not for profit or any organization who
is for profit, and has no regular experience in organized
land speed record racing?
That is one way to look at it, there are many others.
In response to "your big hope", you really have NO idea
what my big hope IS. Actually you have a glimpse, it is partially
embodied in your last paragraph.
Yes I have respect for those before me, who laid out the cash.
I have more respect for my peers who have raced for speed
with a similarly configured vehicle, and went faster, over a
flying mile period
respectfully Louise, I TRULY value the effort of
ATTAINING speed more than the effort
at the BANK
Joe (yeah my spouse doesnt like talking to me either) :):)
PS Louise, do you have an ISBN or other number
that I can take to my Borders book store, to get them
to order in some of your new childrens land speed racing book?
I forgot to get one (some) before departing Wendover, after the "Mexican"
food
\"LandSpeed\" Louise Ann Noeth wrote:
> Joe
>
> If I am reading your comments right, your big hope is to avoid paying
> the FIM "fee" for accreditation.
>
> If that is the case, consider that years from now, the name in the
> books will be those who pony up the fees, not yours (presuming, of
> course, you set any record). Second, if you respect the achievements
> of those who came before you (acknowledge the names in the FIM book)
> and the records they which you are now trying to break, then why would
> the racing community have any reason acknowledge, or respect a record
> where the certification (the paperwork) was never completed?
>
> On the other hand, if you are suggesting that the SCTA try to assume
> full responsibility for the certification process, then why bother
> with the FIM at all?
>
> I understand the passion of the many racers who believe SCTA ought
> enjoy a greater status on the world lsr stage and such a movement has
> merit. The snag in this thinking comes when trying to satisfy the need
> for an independent, unbiased "fair witness" to any record.
>
> Pittwood mentioned this in a prior email. Its akin to letting NFL
> owner referee their own games. I believe it is in everyone's best
> interest to have speed records certified, by an independent authority.
> That is not to say SCTA's participation should be negated form this
> area, but that a separate section might be created that deal ONLY with
> certification. Not timing, inspection, licensing, etc.
>
> If you want a world record, it is because you want world respect and
> acknowledgement. As such the world must feel comfortable that your
> achievement has been arrived at in a fair and above reproach method.
> Another metaphor might be like letting any hot shot dictator run
> rough-shod over a population one day and then allow him to join the
> United Nations the next day. Just because he did it doesn't make him
> worthy of respect.
>
> This discussion of world records is tantalizing. I agree it is ripe
> for matriculation, but whatever is done ought to maintain an
> exceedingly high level of integrity, fairness, and consensus, or the
> process may destroy the very thing we are trying to improve.
>
> Speedy Regards,
>
> "LandSpeed" Louise Ann Noeth
>
> LandSpeed Productions
> Telling stories with words and pictures
> ------------------------o0o--------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Amo" <jkamo@rapidnet.com>
> To: "Mike Manghelli" <mmanghel@hughes.net>
> Cc: <Nt788@aol.com>; <kturk@ala.net>; <webmaster@landracing.com>;
> <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:29 AM
> Subject: Re: International Records
>
> > Mike, sooooo, it will be possible to run under FIM/FIA rules in
> establishing
> > BNI internation records, right?
> >
> > And in doing so, we could only incur an additional expense of course
> prep,
> > right?
> >
> > And basically be able to run under FIM/FIA rules, establish BNI
> international
> > records, with the FIM/FIA present, and choose NOT to pay for their
> signature on
> > the record
> >
> > I am REALLY liking this, if so. Because this PUTS the FIA/FIM in
> an
> > interesting (to me anyway)
> > position: they ALREADY readily/historically sign off on SCTA
> clockings as
> > legit/certifiable,
> > and they will have to contemplate the reality of records being set
> > according to their rules, with their ok on the speeds, but NOT gain
> their
> > signature
> >
> > This would be nice, as the FIA might show up without the FIM, we
> could run
> > according to
> > FIM rules, go as fast as we can, have a record, and let people
> decide for
> > themselves, how to
> > consider the record in the grand scheme of things
> >
> > ie: yes it was done under FIM rules, the FIA certified the clocks,
> yes it was
> > the fastest one liter
> > flying mile ever
> >
> > if Burkland's ran a two way average at World Finals last year at say
> 435mph,
> > why wouldnt it be
> > the WORLDS fastest wheel driven record?????
> >
> > if Burklands run a two way average at World of Speed to FIA rules,
> to establish
> > a BNI international record
> > at say 435mph, but does not pay the FIA fee, why wouldnt it be the
> WOrlds
> > fastest wheel driven record??
> >
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Mike Manghelli wrote:
> >
> > > Ok, I knew there were motorcycle guys and gals out there but, I
> ignored that
> > > to get some points across.
> > >
> > > The answer is NO. I can hear you now...... We are working on
> FIM
> > > sanctioning for the motorcycle guys at World Finals, since the FIA
> does not
> > > have a class for motorcycles. Now, most motorcycle records for
> the FIM are
> > > set with streamliners, so where does that leave Joe and Jon with
> their bike?
> > > We were going to allow you to run on the FIA/FIM/BNI international
> course if
> > > you could run within 3% of the existing FIM record for the class
> your bike
> > > would run against. We were only allowing this because we
> understand that
> > > some of you guys are going faster with street bikes than the FIM
> > > streamliners have set records at. And Yes, you were going to pay
> for the
> > > extra course prep and also the sanctioning fee for the AMA and
> FIM, just
> > > like the car guys do for the SCCA and FIA. Would this be a BNI
> > > international record also? Because the World Finals got canceled
> this year
> > > the SCTA/BNI board did not get that far, but my opinion is yes...
> Now
> > > remember that we were going to have two courses at the World
> Finals; regular
> > > 5 mile SCTA/BNI course and an 11 mile FIA/FIM/BNI international
> course.
> > > Cars for international records were going to be on the 11 mile
> course! All
> > > the rest of us lowly SCTA/BNI racers were going to be on the 5
> mile course
> > > (unless you only qualified for short, then you could only run 3 of
> the 5.
> > > here again the SCTA/BNI will not allow a longer course than
> defined for
> > > their records.)
> > >
> > > Again, the BNI international records are there because of the cost
> and
> > > length of time it takes the FIA to certify (announce, publish) the
> record.
> > > We are trying to make our racers happy!
> > >
> > > Mike (not stirring the pot, just trying to present facts)
> Manghelli
> > > SCTA President
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe Amo <jkamo@rapidnet.com>
> > > Subject: Re: International Records
> > >
> > > >Mike, looking at #5. Is there any provision for us to come to
> World
> > > Finals,
> > > >and run for BNI internation records on the regular course?
> Meaning can I
> > > run a
> > > >bike, according to FIA rules, on the regular long course? If so
> then is
> > > there
> > > >any extra cost involved since I am not running on the long course
> that
> > > requires
> > > >additional course prep? You mentioned that the BNI
> international records
> > > are
> > > >available to set records by the FIA rules as a lower cost
> alternative to
> > > paying
> > > >the FIA fee. Does this truly mean that we can come run at World
> Finals,
> > > abiding
> > > >by FIA rules, on the long course, at regular WF fees?
> > > >
> > > >At any rate, running a meet and abiding by FIA rules, without
> them present
> > > is a
> > > >very intriguing idea, as they really would have a tough time
> refuting the
> > > SCTA
> > > >records as World Records, as they already sign off on the
> authenticity of
> > > the
> > > >SCTA certified speed clockings.
> > > >
> > > >Joe :)
> > > >
> > > >Mike Manghelli wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> 4. Distance of runs; To ensure the highest of integrity the
> SCTA/BNI
> > > will
> > > >> only allow our records to run on two different courses, they
> are; Short
> > > >> course, a two mile approach to one mile timed trap. Long
> course a two
> > > mile
> > > >> approach to 3, one mile timed traps. The only exception exists
> for FIA
> > > and
> > > >> BNI international records. The BNI international record is
> established
> > > >> under the exact same criteria as an FIA record. The FIA does
> not
> > > stipulate
> > > >> the length of approach to the timed mile and or Kilo trap (ref
> page 108
> > > >> SCTA/BNI 200 rule book).
> > > >>
> > > >> 5. Why BNI international records? Competitors wanted a
> lower cost
> > > >> alternate to being recognized than the FIA. (you have already
> been told
> > > >> about the LSA, that was the whole purpose for that
> organization) We
> > > >> (SCTA/BNI) are providing that by following all FIA rules
> (including 1 hr
> > > >> turn around) during the event and then recognizing them in our
> rule book.
> > > >> So if you want the "extra" length of the course you must run
> FIA/BNI
> > > >> international. Does this cost extra? Only for course
> preparation, (last
> > > >> year was going to be double the $360 entry fee). Can I run my
> roadster
> > > on
> > > >> the FIA/BNI international course? NO. Only streamliners and
> lakesters
> > > are
> > > >> allowed on the extra long course. Once again SCTA/BNI wants to
> uphold
> > > the
> > > >> integrity of their records and will not allow a roadster or
> coupe the
> > > chance
> > > >> to run on an extended course. Even if they do not set a
> record, we do
> > > not
> > > >> want to let Keith run a five mile approach to the timed mile
> and have the
> > > >> "bragging rights" over some one else. That is not fair, just
> like trying
> > > to
> > > >> compare, Bonneville, El Mirage, Muroc and Maxton records.
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