Rich:
That's about what I figured as far as adapting goes. I think it may be a
little easier to make it all fit with a flatty than a chizler. Dick J
"called" and announced that he's got some parts I ought to become more
intimately acquainted with real soon.
Is there NOTHING that's not possible with alla guys (and gals) on this
list??? WOW.
Thank ya kindly for your "input" (pun intended) Rich :-)
-Doug in New Yawk
From: "Richard Fox" <v4gr@rcn.com>
To: "Doug Anderson" <boogiewoogie12@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: THE GREAT FORD TOPLOADER TRANS DELIMMA
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:07:51 -0800
Doug; I am using a Lakewood blow shield on my Chrysler and a toploader. By
turning the top loader bearing retainer big OD .100 in it will fit the pilot
hole in the blow shield. then I drilled through where the trans blot holes
were and welded nuts to the inside had to put one new hole in one of the
legs of trans and elongate one. Then I turned collar around .030 or
something (been awhile) to fit the Chevy throwout bearing. I'm using the
same Long type pressure plate. The chevy blow shield can be redrilled to
pick up most of the Chrysler bolt holes but I had to go to a Chevy ring gear
on the flywheel to fit inside the blow shield. You may have to grind a very
small amount off the spline ends to clear the pilot bearing in the crank and
maybe ream or make another pilot bearing from a new ford part. Rich Fox
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Anderson <boogiewoogie12@hotmail.com>
To: land-speed@autox.team.net <land-speed@autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:30 AM
Subject: THE GREAT FORD TOPLOADER TRANS DELIMMA
>Hi ever'body..
>
>-all you lovers of all crusty, rusty ol' Ford Parts out there in
cyberland:
>
>Let's play I'VE got questions, and YOU'VE got answers OK ? ok!
>
>Some of ya' may have heard some of this tale before from me, and some
>haven't but let's see what pops up from it and maybe we can all learn
>something How'szat?
>
>I've been trying to figure out the bestus,cheapest,and/or most effective
way
>of mating the later model Ford so called "3 speed with overdrive" cast
iron
>toploader transmission to a '49-'53 Ford flatty block for my circa 1950
>Track racin' roadster pick'em up project I've got in the plannin' stages
>along with all else. These thing have about a .8 to 1 high gear and I'm
>thinkin' they would be just great on our modern superhighways for keeping
up
>with the dam yuppies with their SUV's and cellphones.
>
>I've been asking LOTS of folks over the summer and it hasn't helped my
brain
>much. I'm still confused. -Maybe it's just a personal problem. Maybe not.
>But I thought I'd give it a shot and ask you all collectively for your
>advise to try to come to terms with this delimma so I can really start to
>hunt down the proper parts to put it all together.
>
>First, just to clarify exactly what I've got, here are a few "specs" and a
>brief description -so that theres no mistaken' this thing for somethin'
else
> -OK?
>
>As far as I've been able to determine these things came in Ford Econoline
>vans in the 1978-1983 period of time in the US. Also believed to have
come
>in some mid size Granadas, Fairmonts, and the like. It seems they were a
>"stopgap" means of getting O.D. into these vehicles fast -before the "T-5"
>was fully developed and ready for use.. I guess what Ford did was order
>these things from (allegedly) Borg-Warner, and later Tremec. It appears
>that all they are is a conventional cast iron "toploader" 4 speed with
>redesigned gear ratios. From what I've seen they are externally
identical.
>Here are some pretty accurate measurements I took off last night from the
>one I swapped from my buddy Tommy Hockman down Pennsylvania way:
>
>
>-Total Length; bellhousing face to the very end of the tailshaft housing:
24
>1/4"
>
>-Nose of input shaft to the bellhousing face of main case; 6 1/2"
>
>-Four bolt pattern to mate to bellhousing; the holes are spaced apart 8 ="
>from side to side. -the lower two bolt holes are 6 1/4" below the top
two.
>(much the same in appearance as a T-10 or a Muncie.)
>
>-The pilot shaft on the input shaft is .670" in diameter and 1.135" in
>length.
>
>-The clutch spline is 1.057 (1 1/16") and is 10 spline. Kind'a small..
>
>-the Throwout bearing collar is 1.437 diameter where the bearing rides,
> -and 4.850" where it fits into the
bellhousing.
>
>That's it for basic "specs" -pretty standard stuff I think.
>
>
>This is one of the transmissions that can convert to the (hard to find)
Jeep
>top shift cover and lever. I've located one, and am in process of getting
>it as I'd like to have it for my application in a 50 year old Racing Track
>roadster setup.
>
>Frank Oddo just mentioned it in his column in Street Rodder Magazine in
the
>JAN. 2001 issue. He did not seem to know much of its history however..
>He also mentioned that he had written of the Jeep shifter conversion for
the
>4 speed application in the DEC. 1990 issue.
>
>Does anyone have a copy of that issue you could photocopy his article for
me
>????? I'd love to get a copy of it! I have always had a large degree of
>respect for Frank Oddo's opinions. Bet you have as well.
>
>
>Friend (and list member) John Linville up in New Hamsha' showed me a
>brainstorm of a slick,trick setup that he dreamed up and built to mate a
>Muncie to his Race flatty: John figgered out that a Chevy Lakewood
>scattershield could be whittled on and re-drilled to make it fit the '49
to
>'53 blocks. I forgot if he also had to whittle on the Muncie shaft and
>throwout collar or notto make it all come together. Think he had to cut a
>wee bit off the tip of the input. How about it John -what 'zactl'y did
you
>do to it to get it to all mate together? Inquirin' minds wanna know!
>
>I'm thinkin' this same trick could be pulled off to make the Ford 4 speed
or
>3 speed w/OD Trans. fit as well. Can anyone confirm this guess ????
>
>Another option, though probably more spendy, is one that Vern Tardel told
me
>about recently when we last were gabbin' on the phone: According to Vern,
it
>is possible to mate a later Ford toploader trans to a late flatty by using
a
>"late" Mercury bell housing ( which is supposedly "tin" and about 3 = to
4"
>"tall" with the earlier Ford large diameter Transmission hole and an eight
>bolt circle.)
>
>Anyway Offenhauser has an "adapter" (listed in Speedway Motors catalog as
#
>560-5174 @ $ 179.95 + freight -plus a "bearing and arm kit" @ $ 82.95. =
>like $ 175 bucks. Hell I've only got about $ 125 dolla in my whole
>tranny... I know, I know "if you wanna ---- with the big dogs. J )
>
>-BUT I have heard from many that Offenhauser is notorious of late for
taking
>an order (and your hard earned.) and then NOT deliverin' da' goods -at
>least for a long,long time. DON'T want to go there. This adapter by the
>way, is for mating a CHEV Muncie or B-W T-10 transmission and not a Ford
so
>re-work would have to be done to it upon purchase anyway so I'm not
thinking
>this is such a great idea So..I'm thinkin' that John's idea might just
>well be "the way ta' go" -not to mention that you can have your cake and
eat
>it too. Well maybe in this case it's not cake but a scattershield -but
>that can be a warm feeling at night. nez pa?
>
>
>I don't have an engine yet, but am planning to use a "latemodel" '49 to
'53
>block. I also want to use the neat old crusty ALBRO aluminum flywheel
that
>John so kindly offered up for the cause. It's got a bronze insert in it
for
>a 10" clutch and is drilled and tapped for a "Long" style pressure plate.
>Though it sounds a little small, I think it will be fine after resurfacing
>in a lathe for what I want to do with this project I'm plannin'..
>
>
>Ok it'stime to spill da' beans: Can some of you PLEASE tell the ways you
can
>think of to mate this flywheel and Transmission to a Flatmotor?
>
> "Please to keep in mind this is a budget operation".
>
>
>Thanks for your time, trouble, thoughts, and deeds! You're th' best.
>
> -Dirty Doug 11-30-00 (who's frantically tryin' to keep his head above
>water inna last three weeks of Colleggggg......arghhhh!)
>
>
>
>
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