--===============5792589706186144847==
--000000000000db5e350617060db0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well ... here's where I believe we are so far.
Presuming that Simon completed the "full torque" test, with the overdrive
hydraulic system totally disabled correctly, we have confirmed that neither
the flywheel clutch nor the overdrive cone clutch slip to produce the
slippage issue that he is chasing.
If the weather improves and Simon can do another road test now that he has
reinstalled the overdrive operating valve *and * the slippage returns we
can be fairly confident that the slippage issue is related to the overdrive
hydraulic system.
Simon has reported that the pump produces over 500 p.s.i. which in my
experience is quite adequate for the overdrive to operate without slippage.=
.
My bet is that either the operating pistons are not receiving that 500
p.s.i. when the valve is opened by the solenoid or something, perhaps an
incorrectly installed spring or 2 or badly leaking piston seals is
preventing the clutch from travelling to the "engaged" position.
M
On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 4:05 p.m. Bob Spidell, <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote=
:
> I lost the plot (not unusual): Have we determined, for sure, that the
> problem is 'slippage,' which would most likely be due to wear in the O/D
> cone clutch? Or have we determined that Simon's O/D is 'dropping out'
> which, to my thinking, would be caused by the 8 strong springs overcoming
> hydraulic pressure (and causing the brake ring to slip or disengage, no?)=
.
>
>
> On 4/26/2024 10:03 AM, Hank Leach wrote:
>
> Ok the pressure gauge implies that the hydraulic system is in good
> condition and that will effectively produce overdrive when the cone clutc=
h
> is pushed forward in the box. When OD is *not required* the solenoid is
> inactive and the 8 springs in the unit have to keep the cone clutch in th=
e
> rearward or in direct drive position.
> These are stout springs and normally are strong enough to engage and hold
> the clutch without slipping, overcoming the hydraulic influence-which
> should be draining at this point..However if the springs are misinstalled
> in the wrong position or not properly mounted on their tabs upon assembly
> or previously "coil bound" from that procedure or wear, they will not
> function to keep direct drive solid without slipping.
> The clutch material should outlive all of us and is not normally, or
> easily, replaced. All you have to keep the car in direct drive are those =
8
> springs and their pressure.
> -Hate to say it but if the re-assembly was defective, the gearbox needs t=
o
> come out and OD removed and checked for correct spring fit-at that time I
> would replace the 8 springs (about $100 from Moss) as a routine repair.
> (photos from my article in AH Mag) Hank
>
> From: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net> <bspidell@comcast.net>
> To: <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Sent: April 26, 2024 at 9:37 AM PDT
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!
> Spitballing ...
>
> I went through my BJ8's O/D a few years ago. The car had 64K miles on it
> when I bought it (approx. 1984), and about 215K* miles on it when I did t=
he
> overhaul. The O/D cone clutch was serviceable--and AFAIK didn't slip--and=
I
> reinstalled it. If new cone clutches were readily available I *might*
> have bought new, on principle, depending on cost, but all I could find wa=
s
> a re-manned one from DWM. To me this implied they didn't often need
> replacement, whereas known wear items like the accumulator are offered by
> several vendors (I would have installed one with an O-ring if I'd known
> about it).
>
> All this to say, unless the car has extremely high mileage and/or the O/D
> has been abused somehow I'd be surprised if the clutch is worn 'to the
> bone.' Obviously, slippage in the cone clutch would cause Simon's car's
> symptoms; if so, the problem will get progressively worse (and more
> consistent). I think one way to test an O/D clutch would be to really lug
> the car pulling an uphill grade in 4th-O/D, if the clutch is going to sli=
p
> it would do it then (as would a worn engine clutch). There's also a
> (remote) possibility that, for some reason, O/D pressure fluctuates durin=
g
> driving.
>
>
> * Anyone else have this many or more known miles on a Healey?
>
> bs
>
>
>
> On 4/26/2024 4:51 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
>
> "What I can=E2=80=99t do is understand the leap to the OD cone clutch?"
>
> Fair question.
> Between the flywheel and the rear wheels there are only 2 places where
> "slippage" can occur these are the clutch and the overdrive's cone clutch=
.
> The gearbox, other than the cone clutch in the overdrive, is a go/no go
> arrangement, i.e. no "slippage".
> The rear wheel splines, believe it or not, can also produce "slippage " i=
f
> they are in really bad condition but I presume that isn't the case here.
>
> The test that you just completed resulted in no driveline slippage when
> the overdrive was disabled.
> You are reporting slippage when the overdrive operating system is enabled
> so it follows that further diagnosis of that is required.
>
> Yes, your next step would be the same test drive, i.e. full engine torque
> on an uphill grade, to confirm that the slippage issue has returned now
> that the overdriveoperating valvehasbe re-installed.
> I would do this test drive BEFORE making any adjustments to the overdrive
> valve or solenoid in order to confirm that meerly installing the overdriv=
e
> operating valve resulted in the slippage issue returning.
> Hope the weather improves, beautiful day here.
> M
>
> On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 7:24 a.m. Simon Lachlan, <
> simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Thanks for this.
>>
>> Not sure I understand fully.
>>
>> Once I=E2=80=99d finished the test drive with the OD operating valve out=
of the
>> car, I returned the rod, ball, spring etc and put in the gauge rather th=
an
>> the nut. And got 500+ psi.
>>
>> What I can=E2=80=99t do is understand the leap to the OD cone clutch. No=
t
>> arguing=E2=80=A6just saying no comprende. As I sat in the car, I was thi=
nking that
>> the function of the OD seems OK and that it=E2=80=99s being interfered w=
ith by
>> something in its circuitry=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6relay, solenoid or throttle =
switch. That=E2=80=99s
>> probably wishful thinking as I really don=E2=80=99t want to be swimming =
in those
>> waters.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did, as a matter of course, clean out the tiny hole in the rod but
>> didn=E2=80=99t detect any blockage=E2=80=A6.which doesn=E2=80=99t mean m=
uch as something minute
>> could have been inside and been washed away by the detergent/hot water t=
hen
>> WD40=E2=80=A6..
>>
>>
>>
>> After someone=E2=80=99s advice =E2=80=93 some time back =E2=80=93 I=E2=
=80=99ve got another rod whose
>> aperture has been drilled out to 1.5mm. This was =E2=80=9Cto allow the O=
D to
>> disengage faster=E2=80=9D. Don=E2=80=99t recall if I tried it. Could tha=
t rod be any help
>> here?
>>
>>
>>
>> The ball seems to be sitting square on its seat and the tip of the rod,
>> where the ball sits, is not worn or chipped.
>>
>> Residual pressure=E2=80=A6.. goes to 500+ when I switch OD ON and stays =
there
>> until, engine and switch OFF, I energize the solenoid a few times whereu=
pon
>> it drops to zero.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another test drive(s) seems called for. But the hood is off to enable
>> access and the forecast is grim for the next week.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very open to more suggestions. Thanks,
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2024 12:14 AM
>> *To:* Simon Lachlan <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>
>> *Cc:* Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!
>>
>>
>>
>> Okay, then it is confirmed that neither the clutch (on the flywheel) nor
>> the overdrive cone clutch (in it's normal drive condition) are producing
>> the slippage.
>>
>> From this we can conclude that even when the overdrive solenoid is *not*
>> energized the slippage is occurring at the overdrive cone clutch and tha=
t
>> for some reason hydraulic pressure is finding its way into the overdrive
>> operating cylinders even when the overdrive operating valve is closed.
>>
>> This can be caused by leakage past operating the valve or residual
>> pressure.
>>
>> The question of residual pressure can be resolved by checking that the
>> bleed hole in the bottom of the long overdrive valve push rod is not
>> blocked.
>>
>> Whether or not hydraulic pressure is leaking past the operating valve
>> ball can be checked by ensuring that the ball is clearly on its seat whe=
n
>> the operating valve is *not * energized.
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024, 3:38 p.m. Simon Lachlan, <
>> simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>> Of course. Isn=E2=80=99t that how I got the 520psi?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 25, 2024 6:19 PM
>> *To:* Simon Lachlan <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>
>> *Cc:* Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!
>>
>>
>>
>> Question ... when you got home and did the pressure test I presume that
>> was AFTER you had put the valve with the "top hat", ball, spring and val=
ve
>> rod cap and washer back into position?
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024, 12:29 p.m. Simon Lachlan, <
>> simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>> So, here is Michael=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CStep 1=E2=80=9D completed. (See h=
is email, below).
>>
>> 1. Removed the operating valve and, just for luck, disconnected the
>> two wires into 3rd/4th switch. Took the car for a spin. Up/down
>> longish/steepish hills, 10 miles on motorway. Various rpm=E2=80=A6..n=
o slippage at
>> all.
>> 2. Had a puncture=E2=80=A6..nail in tyre. Rear RHS. Flat as a pancake=
at
>> once. Nearly onto rim. Nail! I imagine the inner tube is shredded and=
the
>> tyre may be a write-off. (Usually are!). Anyhow, I bore you with this=
as
>> I=E2=80=99m convinced that I=E2=80=99d never have got the wheel off w=
ithout the little
>> scissors jack which I carry to get the car up the first few inches un=
til
>> the Healey jack comes into play. Just a suggestion=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.
>> 3. Got home and jacked car up to test pressure. Steady at 520psi
>> which, I recall, is plenty. Stayed at 520 across rev range. Dropped v=
ery
>> slowly once engine was off and dropped to zero as I engaged/disengage=
d OD a
>> few times. Which is normal I think?
>> 4. Solenoid makes a robust =E2=80=9Cclick=E2=80=9D when it should and=
engages the OD
>> when activated.
>>
>> So what=E2=80=99s a sensible =E2=80=9CStep 2=E2=80=9D??
>>
>> I have been urged to check the setting of the Throttle Switch (TS).
>> Assuming that the slippage returns (and why wouldn=E2=80=99t it?), I=E2=
=80=99ll short the
>> TS out to see if that fixes it. If it does, I=E2=80=99ll check the adjus=
tment.
>>
>> Suggestions would be more than welcome=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6I do dread havin=
g to take that
>> box out again. I=E2=80=99ve got a very adequate ramp and a very strong v=
olunteer(?)
>> but, regardless of all that, it=E2=80=99s still quite a task. And, like =
a few of
>> us, I=E2=80=99m not as young as I once was. I=E2=80=99ve always enjoyed =
the lines from the
>> manual which I reproduce, below. =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDGently ease=
=E2=80=9D!?!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Simon
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2024 3:21 PM
>> *To:* Simon Lachlan <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>
>> *Cc:* Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip
>>
>>
>>
>> *Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!*
>>
>>
>>
>> First you need to confirm whether the clutch (on the flywheel) or the
>> overdrive is causing the slippage.
>>
>> To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the overdrive as a badly
>> misadjuster overdrive operating valve can produce similar symptoms.
>>
>> To do this I would remove the overdrive operating valve completely.
>> (There are other ways but this is absolutely definitive).
>>
>> Now drive the car up a long hill where you are amle to use full throttle
>> at around 3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a few seconds. If it is the clut=
ch
>> (on the flywheel) that is causing the slippage these operating condition=
s.
>> Test this a few times to be sure.
>>
>> If there is no slippage we have confirmed that the overdrive clutch is a=
t
>> fault.
>>
>>
>>
>> Step 1 completed. Please report results. MS.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon Lachlan via Healeys, <
>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> You may recall the very extended overdrive and clutch saga last year. Lo=
ng
>> story short(ish)=E2=80=A6
>>
>> OD was slipping in and out depending on oil temperature.
>>
>> Correctly diagnosed pressure. Checked with gauge.
>>
>> Attempted rebuild=E2=80=A6going only so far as accumulator and related s=
eals.
>>
>> Stymied as could not get pump out. Turned out to have been =E2=80=9Cfixe=
d=E2=80=9D at
>> some stage with some form of =E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=9D which was =
coming loose/apart.
>>
>> Took it up to OD Spares who fixed it..new housing etcetc
>>
>> Why not a new clutch I thought? Sensible while you=E2=80=99re in the are=
a looking
>> at a 30+ yr old item.
>>
>> New clutch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy, wouldn=E2=80=99t engage/disengage/pla=
y at all.
>>
>> Gearbox out again.
>>
>> Refit clutch. Presumed I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s mistake.
>>
>> Refit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good. Same
>>
>> Can=E2=80=99t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and enthusiasm by=
now.
>>
>> Turned out that the new clutch kit was defective. (Thanks Mirek) (Genuin=
e
>> B&B from AHSpares).
>>
>> New one did work.
>>
>> Saga over until yesterday.
>>
>> Same sort of symptoms=E2=80=A6..
>>
>> All=E2=80=99s well for first 10 or so miles. Then the dreaded slippage(?=
) starts.
>> But it=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds me more of a slipping clutc=
h. (But NO
>> smell)
>>
>> Symptoms continue if it=E2=80=99s in or out of OD.
>>
>> Symptoms reduce at speed.
>>
>> Yes, plenty of oil. Over the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sure
>> it=E2=80=99s 40wt non-detergent topped up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or
>> vice-versa). Am confident in state of the filter, magnets etc.
>>
>> No, I have not pressure tested it yet and yes, I dread restarting the
>> whole bloody process all over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I can face tak=
ing the box
>> out again once, let alone multiple times.
>>
>> What I want and experience tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a mir=
acle cure!
>>
>> One initial question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work or not work? ie,=
can the
>> relay hover between on and off which might lead to the OD coming in and
>> out? I think that could happen if the switch is off but the unit still
>> hasn=E2=80=99t got the message to disengage from the bulkhead switch.
>>
>> And a supplementary=E2=80=A6.how do I bench test the relay?
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
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--000000000000db5e350617060db0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">Well ...=C2=A0 here's where I believe we are so far.<=
div dir=3D"auto">Presuming that Simon completed the "full torque"=
test, with the overdrive hydraulic system totally disabled correctly, we h=
ave confirmed that neither the flywheel clutch nor the overdrive cone clutc=
h slip to produce the slippage issue that he is chasing.</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">If the weather improves and Simon can do another road test now that he=
has reinstalled the overdrive operating valve <u style=3D"font-weight:bold=
">and=C2=A0</u>=C2=A0the slippage returns we can be fairly confident that t=
he slippage issue is related to the overdrive hydraulic system.=C2=A0</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">Simon has reported that the pump produces over 500 p.s.i.=
which in my experience is quite adequate for the overdrive to operate with=
out slippage..</div><div dir=3D"auto">My bet is that either the operating p=
istons are not receiving that 500 p.s.i. when the valve is opened by the so=
lenoid or something, perhaps an incorrectly installed spring or 2 or badly =
leaking piston seals is preventing the clutch from travelling to the "=
engaged" position.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail=
_attr">On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 4:05 p.m. Bob Spidell, <<a href=3D"mailto=
:bspidell@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcas=
t.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
=20
=20
=20
<div>
I lost the plot (not unusual): Have we determined, for sure, that
the problem is 'slippage,' which would most likely be due to we=
ar in
the O/D cone clutch? Or have we determined that Simon's O/D is
'dropping out' which, to my thinking, would be caused by the 8
strong springs overcoming hydraulic pressure (and causing the brake
ring to slip or disengage, no?). <br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 4/26/2024 10:03 AM, Hank Leach
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div>Ok the pressure gauge implies that the hydraulic system is in
good condition and that will effectively produce overdrive when
the cone clutch is pushed forward in the box. When OD is <strong>no=
t
required</strong> the solenoid is inactive and the 8 springs
in the unit have to keep the cone clutch in the rearward or in
direct drive position.</div>
<div>These are stout springs and normally are strong enough to
engage and hold the clutch without slipping, overcoming the
hydraulic influence-which should be draining at this
point..However if the springs are misinstalled in the wrong
position or not properly mounted on their tabs upon assembly or
previously "coil bound" from that procedure or wear, they=
will
not function to keep direct drive solid without slipping.</div>
<div>The clutch material should outlive all of us and is not
normally, or easily, replaced. All you have to keep the car in
direct drive are those 8 springs and their pressure.<br>
-Hate to say it but if the re-assembly was defective, the
gearbox needs to come out and OD removed and checked for correct
spring fit-at that time I would replace the 8 springs (about
$100 from Moss) as a routine repair. (photos from my article in
AH Mag) Hank<br>
<br>
From: "Bob Spidell" <a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.ne=
t" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"><bspidell@comcast.net=
></a> <br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank"><healeys@autox.team.net></a> <br>
Sent: April 26, 2024 at 9:37 AM PDT <br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!
<br>
Spitballing ...<br>
<br>
I went through my BJ8's O/D a few years ago. The car had 64K
miles on it when I bought it (approx. 1984), and about 215K*
miles on it when I did the overhaul. The O/D cone clutch was
serviceable--and AFAIK didn't slip--and I reinstalled it. If ne=
w
cone clutches were readily available I <em>might</em> have
bought new, on principle, depending on cost, but all I could
find was a re-manned one from DWM. To me this implied they
didn't often need replacement, whereas known wear items like th=
e
accumulator are offered by several vendors (I would have
installed one with an O-ring if I'd known about it).<br>
<br>
All this to say, unless the car has extremely high mileage
and/or the O/D has been abused somehow I'd be surprised if the
clutch is worn 'to the bone.' Obviously, slippage in the co=
ne
clutch would cause Simon's car's symptoms; if so, the probl=
em
will get progressively worse (and more consistent). I think one
way to test an O/D clutch would be to really lug the car pulling
an uphill grade in 4th-O/D, if the clutch is going to slip it
would do it then (as would a worn engine clutch). There's also =
a
(remote) possibility that, for some reason, O/D pressure
fluctuates during driving.<br>
<br>
<br>
* Anyone else have this many or more known miles on a Healey?<br>
<br>
bs<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>On 4/26/2024 4:51 AM, Michael Salter
wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">"What I
can=E2=80=99t do is understand the leap to the OD cone clutch=
?"</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">=C2=A0Fair
question.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">Between
the flywheel and the rear wheels there are only 2 places
where "slippage" can occur these are the clutch and=
the
overdrive's cone clutch.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">The
gearbox, other than the cone clutch in the overdrive, is a
go/no go arrangement, i.e. no "slippage".</span></d=
iv>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">The
rear wheel splines, believe it or not, can also produce
"slippage " if they are in really bad condition but=
I
presume that isn't the case here.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">The
test that you just completed resulted in no driveline
slippage when the overdrive was disabled.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">You are
reporting slippage when the overdrive operating system is
enabled so it follows that further diagnosis of that is
required.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;f=
ont-size:12.8px">=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Yes, your next step
would be the same test drive, i.e. full engine torque on
an uphill grade, to confirm that the slippage issue has
returned now that the overdriveoperating valvehasbe
re-installed.=C2=A0=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">I would do this test
drive BEFORE making any adjustments to the overdrive valve
or solenoid in order to confirm that meerly installing the
overdrive operating valve resulted in the slippage issue
returning.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Hope the weather
improves, beautiful day here.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">M</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 7:24 a.m.
Simon Lachlan, <<a href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.p=
lus.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">simon.lac=
hlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">Hi,
Thanks for this.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">Not
sure I understand fully. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">Once
I=E2=80=99d finished the test drive with the OD operati=
ng
valve out of the car, I returned the rod, ball,
spring etc and put in the gauge rather than the nut.
And got 500+ psi. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">What I
can=E2=80=99t do is understand the leap to the OD cone
clutch. Not arguing=E2=80=A6just saying no comprende. A=
s I
sat in the car, I was thinking that the function of
the OD seems OK and that it=E2=80=99s being interfered =
with
by something in its circuitry=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6relay, s=
olenoid or
throttle switch. That=E2=80=99s probably wishful thinki=
ng as
I really don=E2=80=99t want to be swimming in those wat=
ers.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">I did,
as a matter of course, clean out the tiny hole in
the rod but didn=E2=80=99t detect any blockage=E2=80=A6=
.which
doesn=E2=80=99t mean much as something minute could hav=
e
been inside and been washed away by the
detergent/hot water then WD40=E2=80=A6..</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">After
someone=E2=80=99s advice =E2=80=93 some time back =E2=
=80=93 I=E2=80=99ve got another
rod whose aperture has been drilled out to 1.5mm.
This was =E2=80=9Cto allow the OD to disengage faster=
=E2=80=9D.
Don=E2=80=99t recall if I tried it. Could that rod be a=
ny
help here?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">The
ball seems to be sitting square on its seat and the
tip of the rod, where the ball sits, is not worn or
chipped.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">Residual
pressure=E2=80=A6.. goes to 500+ when I switch OD ON an=
d
stays there until, engine and switch OFF, I energize
the solenoid a few times whereupon it drops to zero.</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">Another
test drive(s) seems called for. But the hood is off
to enable access and the forecast is grim for the
next week.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">Very
open to more suggestions. Thanks,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">Simon</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Time=
s New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;pa=
dding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',sans-serif">From:</span></strong><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',sans-serif"> Michae=
l
Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"=
rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gma=
il.com</a>>
<br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, April 26, 2024
12:14 AM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> Simon Lachlan <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br>
<strong>Cc:</strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:he=
aleys@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: Overdrive pressure
or clutch slip Step 2!</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Okay, then it is confirmed that
neither the clutch (on the flywheel) nor the
overdrive cone clutch (in it's normal drive
condition) are producing the slippage.=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">From this we can conclude that
even when the overdrive solenoid is <strong><u>not</u=
></strong>
energized=C2=A0the slippage is occurring at the
overdrive cone clutch and that for some reason
hydraulic pressure is finding its way into the
overdrive operating cylinders even when the
overdrive operating valve is closed.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This can be caused by leakage
past operating the valve or residual pressure.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The question of residual
pressure can be resolved by checking that the
bleed hole in the bottom of the long overdrive
valve push rod is not blocked.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Whether or not hydraulic
pressure is leaking past the operating valve ball
can be checked by ensuring that the ball is
clearly on its seat when the operating valve is <stro=
ng><u>not=C2=A0</u></strong>=C2=A0energized.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">M</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024, 3:38
p.m. Simon Lachlan, <<a href=3D"mailto:simon.lachl=
an@alexarevel.plus.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #ccccc=
c 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&=
#39;Times New Roman',serif">Of course. Isn=E2=80=99t that how
I got the 520psi?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&=
#39;Times New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',sans-serif">From:</span></stron=
g><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',sans-serif"=
> Michael
Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gm=
ail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michaelsa=
lter@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, April 25,
2024 6:19 PM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> Simon Lachlan <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br>
<strong>Cc:</strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:healeys@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: Overdrive
pressure or clutch slip Step 2!</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Question=C2=A0 ... when yo=
u
got home and did the pressure test I presume
that was AFTER you had put the valve with
the "top hat", ball, spring and valve=
rod
cap and washer back into position?</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">M</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024,
12:29 p.m. Simon Lachlan, <<a href=3D"mail=
to:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:soli=
d #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin:5.0pt 0cm 5.0pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:'Times New Roman',serif">So, here is Michael=E2=80=99s
=E2=80=9CStep 1=E2=80=9D completed. (Se=
e his email,
below).</span></p>
<ol>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Removed the operating
valve and, just for luck,
disconnected the two wires into 3<sup=
>rd</sup>/4<sup>th</sup>
switch. Took the car for a spin.
Up/down longish/steepish hills, 10
miles on motorway. Various
rpm=E2=80=A6..no slippage at all.</sp=
an></li>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Had a puncture=E2=80=A6..nail in
tyre. Rear RHS. Flat as a pancake
at once. Nearly onto rim. Nail! I
imagine the inner tube is shredded
and the tyre may be a write-off.
(Usually are!). Anyhow, I bore you
with this as I=E2=80=99m convinced th=
at
I=E2=80=99d never have got the wheel =
off
without the little scissors jack
which I carry to get the car up
the first few inches until the
Healey jack comes into play. Just
a suggestion=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.</span=
></li>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Got home and jacked car up
to test pressure. Steady at 520psi
which, I recall, is plenty. Stayed
at 520 across rev range. Dropped
very slowly once engine was off
and dropped to zero as I
engaged/disengaged OD a few times.
Which is normal I think?</span></li>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Solenoid makes a robust
=E2=80=9Cclick=E2=80=9D when it shoul=
d and engages
the OD when activated.</span></li>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:'Times New Roman',serif">So what=E2=80=99s a sensible =E2=80=
=9CStep
2=E2=80=9D??</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:'Times New Roman',serif">I have been urged to check
the setting of the Throttle Switch
(TS). Assuming that the slippage
returns (and why wouldn=E2=80=99t it?),=
I=E2=80=99ll
short the TS out to see if that
fixes it. If it does, I=E2=80=99ll chec=
k the
adjustment.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:'Times New Roman',serif">Suggestions would be more
than welcome=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6I do drea=
d having to
take that box out again. I=E2=80=99ve g=
ot a
very adequate ramp and a very strong
volunteer(?) but, regardless of all
that, it=E2=80=99s still quite a task. =
And,
like a few of us, I=E2=80=99m not as yo=
ung
as I once was. I=E2=80=99ve always enjo=
yed
the lines from the manual which I
reproduce, below. =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=
=BF=BDGently ease=E2=80=9D!?!
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:'Times New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:'Times New Roman',serif">Thanks, Simon</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:'Times New Roman',serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid =
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',sans-serif">From:</span=
></strong><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',san=
s-serif"> Michael
Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaels=
alter@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">m=
ichaelsalter@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Monday,
April 22, 2024 3:21 PM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> Simon Lachlan
<<a href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@a=
lexarevel.plus.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br>
<strong>Cc:</strong> Healeys <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re:
[Healeys] Overdrive pressure or
clutch slip</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><u>Corre=
ct
diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!</u>=
</strong></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First you need to
confirm whether the clutch (on the
flywheel) or the overdrive is
causing the slippage.=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">To do this you
ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the
overdrive as a badly misadjuster
overdrive operating valve can
produce similar symptoms.=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">To do this I
would remove the overdrive
operating valve completely. (There
are other ways but this is
absolutely definitive).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Now drive the
car up a long hill where you are
amle to use full throttle at
around 3000 RPM (maximum torque)
for a few seconds. If it is the
clutch (on the flywheel) that is
causing the slippage these
operating conditions. Test this a
few times to be sure.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If there is no
slippage we have confirmed that
the overdrive clutch is at fault.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Step 1
completed. Please report
results.=C2=A0MS.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-l=
eft:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin:5.0pt 0cm 5.0pt 4.=
8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon.,
Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon
Lachlan via Healeys, <<a href=
=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;bord=
er-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin:5.0pt 0cm 5.0p=
t 4.8pt">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">You may recall the very
extended overdrive and
clutch saga last year.</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:'=
;Times New Roman',serif">Long story short(ish)=E2=80=A6</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">OD was slipping in and out
depending on oil
temperature.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Correctly diagnosed
pressure. Checked with
gauge.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Attempted rebuild=E2=80=A6going
only so far as</span> <span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">accumulator and relate=
d
seals.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Stymied as could not get
pump out. Turned out to
have been =E2=80=9Cfixed=E2=
=80=9D at some
stage with some form of
=E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=
=9D which was
coming loose/apart.</span></p=
>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Took it up to OD Spares
who fixed it..new housing
etcetc</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Why not a new clutch I
thought? Sensible while
you=E2=80=99re in the area lo=
oking
at a 30+ yr old item.</span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">New clutch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy,
wouldn=E2=80=99t</span> <span=
style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">engage/disengage/pla=
y at
all.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Gearbox out again.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Refit clutch. Presumed I=E2=80=99d
made some beginner=E2=80=99s
mistake.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Refit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good.
Same</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Can=E2=80=99t recall whether I
tried again. Lost count
and enthusiasm by now.</span>=
</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Turned out that the new
clutch kit was defective.
(Thanks Mirek) (Genuine
B&B from AHSpares).</span=
></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">New one did work.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Saga over until yesterday.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Same sort of symptoms=E2=80=A6..</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">All=E2=80=99s well for first 10 or
so miles. Then the dreaded
slippage(?) starts. But
it=E2=80=99s not quite the sa=
me.
Reminds me more of a
slipping clutch. (But NO
smell)</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Symptoms continue if it=E2=80=99s
in or out of OD.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Symptoms reduce at speed.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Yes, plenty of oil. Over
the full mark. Looks very
clean. Pretty sure it=E2=80=
=99s
40wt</span> <span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:'Times New Roman',serif">non-detergent topped up
with 30wt non-detergent.
(Or vice-versa).</span> <span=
style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Am confident in stat=
e of
the filter, magnets etc.</spa=
n></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">No, I have not pressure
tested it yet and yes, I
dread restarting the whole
bloody process all over
again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I=
can
face taking the box out
again once, let alone
multiple times.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">What I want and experience
tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely=
to
get is a miracle cure!</span>=
</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">One initial question=E2=80=A6..do
OD relays either work or
not work? ie, can the
relay hover between on and
off</span> <span style=3D"fon=
t-family:'Times New Roman',serif">which might lead to the OD
coming in and out? I think
that could happen if the
switch is off but the unit
still hasn=E2=80=99t got the
message to disengage from
the bulkhead switch.</span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">And a supplementary=E2=80=A6.how</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:'=
;Times New Roman',serif">do I bench test</span> <span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:'Times New Roman',serif">the relay?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:=
9;Times New Roman',serif">Simon</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferrer noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/heal=
eys</a>
s/bspidell@comcast.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/bspidell@comcast.net</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
rer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.htm=
l</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/he=
aleys</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferr=
er noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/h=
ealeys</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/li=
stinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
s/michaelsalter@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gma=
il.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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