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--00000000000032bf9c0617048c52
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With all due respects Hank you have this backwards.
.*However if the springs are misinstalled in the wrong position or not
properly mounted on their tabs upon assembly or previously "coil bound"
from that procedure or wear, they will not function to keep direct drive
solid without slipping*.
If the springs are installed incorrectly as in even one of them sitting on
top on the little posts, or even one long spring where a short is meant to
be, the unit will be solidly locked in "normal" i.e. non overdrive as there
never going to be enough hydraulic pressure to move a spring beyond "coil
bound".
Don't ask me how I know =F0=9F=98=B3
M
On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 1:07 p.m. Hank Leach via Healeys, <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Ok the pressure gauge implies that the hydraulic system is in good
> condition and that will effectively produce overdrive when the cone clutc=
h
> is pushed forward in the box. When OD is *not required* the solenoid is
> inactive and the 8 springs in the unit have to keep the cone clutch in th=
e
> rearward or in direct drive position.
> These are stout springs and normally are strong enough to engage and hold
> the clutch without slipping, overcoming the hydraulic influence-which
> should be draining at this point..However if the springs are misinstalled
> in the wrong position or not properly mounted on their tabs upon assembly
> or previously "coil bound" from that procedure or wear, they will not
> function to keep direct drive solid without slipping.
> The clutch material should outlive all of us and is not normally, or
> easily, replaced. All you have to keep the car in direct drive are those =
8
> springs and their pressure.
> -Hate to say it but if the re-assembly was defective, the gearbox needs t=
o
> come out and OD removed and checked for correct spring fit-at that time I
> would replace the 8 springs (about $100 from Moss) as a routine repair.
> (photos from my article in AH Mag) Hank
>
> From: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
> To: <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Sent: April 26, 2024 at 9:37 AM PDT
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!
> Spitballing ...
>
> I went through my BJ8's O/D a few years ago. The car had 64K miles on it
> when I bought it (approx. 1984), and about 215K* miles on it when I did t=
he
> overhaul. The O/D cone clutch was serviceable--and AFAIK didn't slip--and=
I
> reinstalled it. If new cone clutches were readily available I *might*
> have bought new, on principle, depending on cost, but all I could find wa=
s
> a re-manned one from DWM. To me this implied they didn't often need
> replacement, whereas known wear items like the accumulator are offered by
> several vendors (I would have installed one with an O-ring if I'd known
> about it).
>
> All this to say, unless the car has extremely high mileage and/or the O/D
> has been abused somehow I'd be surprised if the clutch is worn 'to the
> bone.' Obviously, slippage in the cone clutch would cause Simon's car's
> symptoms; if so, the problem will get progressively worse (and more
> consistent). I think one way to test an O/D clutch would be to really lug
> the car pulling an uphill grade in 4th-O/D, if the clutch is going to sli=
p
> it would do it then (as would a worn engine clutch). There's also a
> (remote) possibility that, for some reason, O/D pressure fluctuates durin=
g
> driving.
>
>
> * Anyone else have this many or more known miles on a Healey?
>
> bs
>
>
>
> On 4/26/2024 4:51 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
>
> "What I can=E2=80=99t do is understand the leap to the OD cone clutch?"
>
> Fair question.
> Between the flywheel and the rear wheels there are only 2 places where
> "slippage" can occur these are the clutch and the overdrive's cone clutch=
.
> The gearbox, other than the cone clutch in the overdrive, is a go/no go
> arrangement, i.e. no "slippage".
> The rear wheel splines, believe it or not, can also produce "slippage " i=
f
> they are in really bad condition but I presume that isn't the case here.
>
> The test that you just completed resulted in no driveline slippage when
> the overdrive was disabled.
> You are reporting slippage when the overdrive operating system is enabled
> so it follows that further diagnosis of that is required.
>
> Yes, your next step would be the same test drive, i.e. full engine torque
> on an uphill grade, to confirm that the slippage issue has returned now
> that the overdriveoperating valvehasbe re-installed.
> I would do this test drive BEFORE making any adjustments to the overdrive
> valve or solenoid in order to confirm that meerly installing the overdriv=
e
> operating valve resulted in the slippage issue returning.
> Hope the weather improves, beautiful day here.
> M
>
> On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 7:24 a.m. Simon Lachlan, <
> simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Thanks for this.
>>
>> Not sure I understand fully.
>>
>> Once I=E2=80=99d finished the test drive with the OD operating valve out=
of the
>> car, I returned the rod, ball, spring etc and put in the gauge rather th=
an
>> the nut. And got 500+ psi.
>>
>> What I can=E2=80=99t do is understand the leap to the OD cone clutch. No=
t
>> arguing=E2=80=A6just saying no comprende. As I sat in the car, I was thi=
nking that
>> the function of the OD seems OK and that it=E2=80=99s being interfered w=
ith by
>> something in its circuitry=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6relay, solenoid or throttle =
switch. That=E2=80=99s
>> probably wishful thinking as I really don=E2=80=99t want to be swimming =
in those
>> waters.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did, as a matter of course, clean out the tiny hole in the rod but
>> didn=E2=80=99t detect any blockage=E2=80=A6.which doesn=E2=80=99t mean m=
uch as something minute
>> could have been inside and been washed away by the detergent/hot water t=
hen
>> WD40=E2=80=A6..
>>
>>
>>
>> After someone=E2=80=99s advice =E2=80=93 some time back =E2=80=93 I=E2=
=80=99ve got another rod whose
>> aperture has been drilled out to 1.5mm. This was =E2=80=9Cto allow the O=
D to
>> disengage faster=E2=80=9D. Don=E2=80=99t recall if I tried it. Could tha=
t rod be any help
>> here?
>>
>>
>>
>> The ball seems to be sitting square on its seat and the tip of the rod,
>> where the ball sits, is not worn or chipped.
>>
>> Residual pressure=E2=80=A6.. goes to 500+ when I switch OD ON and stays =
there
>> until, engine and switch OFF, I energize the solenoid a few times whereu=
pon
>> it drops to zero.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another test drive(s) seems called for. But the hood is off to enable
>> access and the forecast is grim for the next week.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very open to more suggestions. Thanks,
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2024 12:14 AM
>> *To:* Simon Lachlan <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>
>> *Cc:* Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!
>>
>>
>>
>> Okay, then it is confirmed that neither the clutch (on the flywheel) nor
>> the overdrive cone clutch (in it's normal drive condition) are producing
>> the slippage.
>>
>> From this we can conclude that even when the overdrive solenoid is *not*
>> energized the slippage is occurring at the overdrive cone clutch and tha=
t
>> for some reason hydraulic pressure is finding its way into the overdrive
>> operating cylinders even when the overdrive operating valve is closed.
>>
>> This can be caused by leakage past operating the valve or residual
>> pressure.
>>
>> The question of residual pressure can be resolved by checking that the
>> bleed hole in the bottom of the long overdrive valve push rod is not
>> blocked.
>>
>> Whether or not hydraulic pressure is leaking past the operating valve
>> ball can be checked by ensuring that the ball is clearly on its seat whe=
n
>> the operating valve is *not * energized.
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024, 3:38 p.m. Simon Lachlan, <
>> simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>> Of course. Isn=E2=80=99t that how I got the 520psi?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 25, 2024 6:19 PM
>> *To:* Simon Lachlan <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>
>> *Cc:* Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!
>>
>>
>>
>> Question ... when you got home and did the pressure test I presume that
>> was AFTER you had put the valve with the "top hat", ball, spring and val=
ve
>> rod cap and washer back into position?
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024, 12:29 p.m. Simon Lachlan, <
>> simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>> So, here is Michael=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CStep 1=E2=80=9D completed. (See h=
is email, below).
>>
>> 1. Removed the operating valve and, just for luck, disconnected the
>> two wires into 3rd/4th switch. Took the car for a spin. Up/down
>> longish/steepish hills, 10 miles on motorway. Various rpm=E2=80=A6..n=
o slippage at
>> all.
>> 2. Had a puncture=E2=80=A6..nail in tyre. Rear RHS. Flat as a pancake=
at
>> once. Nearly onto rim. Nail! I imagine the inner tube is shredded and=
the
>> tyre may be a write-off. (Usually are!). Anyhow, I bore you with this=
as
>> I=E2=80=99m convinced that I=E2=80=99d never have got the wheel off w=
ithout the little
>> scissors jack which I carry to get the car up the first few inches un=
til
>> the Healey jack comes into play. Just a suggestion=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.
>> 3. Got home and jacked car up to test pressure. Steady at 520psi
>> which, I recall, is plenty. Stayed at 520 across rev range. Dropped v=
ery
>> slowly once engine was off and dropped to zero as I engaged/disengage=
d OD a
>> few times. Which is normal I think?
>> 4. Solenoid makes a robust =E2=80=9Cclick=E2=80=9D when it should and=
engages the OD
>> when activated.
>>
>> So what=E2=80=99s a sensible =E2=80=9CStep 2=E2=80=9D??
>>
>> I have been urged to check the setting of the Throttle Switch (TS).
>> Assuming that the slippage returns (and why wouldn=E2=80=99t it?), I=E2=
=80=99ll short the
>> TS out to see if that fixes it. If it does, I=E2=80=99ll check the adjus=
tment.
>>
>> Suggestions would be more than welcome=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6I do dread havin=
g to take that
>> box out again. I=E2=80=99ve got a very adequate ramp and a very strong v=
olunteer(?)
>> but, regardless of all that, it=E2=80=99s still quite a task. And, like =
a few of
>> us, I=E2=80=99m not as young as I once was. I=E2=80=99ve always enjoyed =
the lines from the
>> manual which I reproduce, below. =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDGently ease=
=E2=80=9D!?!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Simon
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2024 3:21 PM
>> *To:* Simon Lachlan <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>
>> *Cc:* Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip
>>
>>
>>
>> *Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!*
>>
>>
>>
>> First you need to confirm whether the clutch (on the flywheel) or the
>> overdrive is causing the slippage.
>>
>> To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the overdrive as a badly
>> misadjuster overdrive operating valve can produce similar symptoms.
>>
>> To do this I would remove the overdrive operating valve completely.
>> (There are other ways but this is absolutely definitive).
>>
>> Now drive the car up a long hill where you are amle to use full throttle
>> at around 3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a few seconds. If it is the clut=
ch
>> (on the flywheel) that is causing the slippage these operating condition=
s.
>> Test this a few times to be sure.
>>
>> If there is no slippage we have confirmed that the overdrive clutch is a=
t
>> fault.
>>
>>
>>
>> Step 1 completed. Please report results. MS.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon Lachlan via Healeys, <
>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> You may recall the very extended overdrive and clutch saga last year. Lo=
ng
>> story short(ish)=E2=80=A6
>>
>> OD was slipping in and out depending on oil temperature.
>>
>> Correctly diagnosed pressure. Checked with gauge.
>>
>> Attempted rebuild=E2=80=A6going only so far as accumulator and related s=
eals.
>>
>> Stymied as could not get pump out. Turned out to have been =E2=80=9Cfixe=
d=E2=80=9D at
>> some stage with some form of =E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=9D which was =
coming loose/apart.
>>
>> Took it up to OD Spares who fixed it..new housing etcetc
>>
>> Why not a new clutch I thought? Sensible while you=E2=80=99re in the are=
a looking
>> at a 30+ yr old item.
>>
>> New clutch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy, wouldn=E2=80=99t engage/disengage/pla=
y at all.
>>
>> Gearbox out again.
>>
>> Refit clutch. Presumed I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s mistake.
>>
>> Refit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good. Same
>>
>> Can=E2=80=99t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and enthusiasm by=
now.
>>
>> Turned out that the new clutch kit was defective. (Thanks Mirek) (Genuin=
e
>> B&B from AHSpares).
>>
>> New one did work.
>>
>> Saga over until yesterday.
>>
>> Same sort of symptoms=E2=80=A6..
>>
>> All=E2=80=99s well for first 10 or so miles. Then the dreaded slippage(?=
) starts.
>> But it=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds me more of a slipping clutc=
h. (But NO
>> smell)
>>
>> Symptoms continue if it=E2=80=99s in or out of OD.
>>
>> Symptoms reduce at speed.
>>
>> Yes, plenty of oil. Over the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sure
>> it=E2=80=99s 40wt non-detergent topped up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or
>> vice-versa). Am confident in state of the filter, magnets etc.
>>
>> No, I have not pressure tested it yet and yes, I dread restarting the
>> whole bloody process all over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I can face tak=
ing the box
>> out again once, let alone multiple times.
>>
>> What I want and experience tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a mir=
acle cure!
>>
>> One initial question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work or not work? ie,=
can the
>> relay hover between on and off which might lead to the OD coming in and
>> out? I think that could happen if the switch is off but the unit still
>> hasn=E2=80=99t got the message to disengage from the bulkhead switch.
>>
>> And a supplementary=E2=80=A6.how do I bench test the relay?
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
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--00000000000032bf9c0617048c52
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">With all due respects Hank you have this backwards.=C2=A0=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8=
px">.<i>However if the springs are misinstalled in the wrong position or no=
t properly mounted on their tabs upon assembly or previously "coil bou=
nd" from that procedure or wear, they will not function to keep direct=
drive solid without slipping</i>.</span><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">If the springs are installed incorrectly as in even o=
ne of them sitting on top on the little posts, or even one long spring wher=
e a short is meant to be, the unit will be solidly locked in "normal&q=
uot; i.e. non overdrive as there never going to be enough hydraulic pressur=
e to move a spring beyond "coil bound".<br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">Don't ask me how I know =F0=9F=98=B3</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 1:07 p.m. Hank Leach via =
Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.n=
et</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Ok the press=
ure gauge implies that the hydraulic system is in good condition and that w=
ill effectively produce overdrive when the cone clutch is pushed forward in=
the box. When OD is <strong>not required</strong> the solenoid is inactive=
and the 8 springs in the unit have to keep the cone clutch in the rearward=
or in direct drive position.</div>
<div>These are stout springs and normally are strong enough to engage and h=
old the clutch without slipping, overcoming the hydraulic influence-which s=
hould be draining at this point..However if the springs are misinstalled in=
the wrong position or not properly mounted on their tabs upon assembly or =
previously "coil bound" from that procedure or wear, they will no=
t function to keep direct drive solid without slipping.</div>
<div>The clutch material should outlive all of us and is not normally, or e=
asily, replaced. All you have to keep the car in direct drive are those 8 s=
prings and their pressure.<br>-Hate to say it but if the re-assembly was de=
fective, the gearbox needs to come out and OD removed and checked for corre=
ct spring fit-at that time I would replace the 8 springs (about $100 from M=
oss) as a routine repair. (photos from my article in AH Mag) Hank<br><br>Fr=
om: "Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; tar=
get=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> <br>To: <=
<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferr=
er">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> <br>Sent: April 26, 2024 at 9:37 AM PDT =
<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2! <br>Sp=
itballing ...<br><br>I went through my BJ8's O/D a few years ago. The c=
ar had 64K miles on it when I bought it (approx. 1984), and about 215K* mil=
es on it when I did the overhaul. The O/D cone clutch was serviceable--and =
AFAIK didn't slip--and I reinstalled it. If new cone clutches were read=
ily available I <em>might</em> have bought new, on principle, depending on =
cost, but all I could find was a re-manned one from DWM. To me this implied=
they didn't often need replacement, whereas known wear items like the =
accumulator are offered by several vendors (I would have installed one with=
an O-ring if I'd known about it).<br><br>All this to say, unless the c=
ar has extremely high mileage and/or the O/D has been abused somehow I'=
d be surprised if the clutch is worn 'to the bone.' Obviously, slip=
page in the cone clutch would cause Simon's car's symptoms; if so, =
the problem will get progressively worse (and more consistent). I think one=
way to test an O/D clutch would be to really lug the car pulling an uphill=
grade in 4th-O/D, if the clutch is going to slip it would do it then (as w=
ould a worn engine clutch). There's also a (remote) possibility that, f=
or some reason, O/D pressure fluctuates during driving.<br><br><br>* Anyone=
else have this many or more known miles on a Healey?<br><br>bs<br><br><br>=
<br></div>
<div>On 4/26/2024 4:51 AM, Michael Salter wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">"What I can=E2=80=99t do is understand the leap to the OD cone =
clutch?"</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">=C2=A0Fair question.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">Between the flywheel and the rear wheels there are only 2 places whe=
re "slippage" can occur these are the clutch and the overdrive=
9;s cone clutch.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">The gearbox, other than the cone clutch in the overdrive, is a go/no=
go arrangement, i.e. no "slippage".</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">The rear wheel splines, believe it or not, can also produce "sl=
ippage " if they are in really bad condition but I presume that isn=
9;t the case here.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">The test that you just completed resulted in no driveline slippage w=
hen the overdrive was disabled.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">You are reporting slippage when the overdrive operating system is en=
abled so it follows that further diagnosis of that is required.</span></div=
>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',serif;font-size:1=
2.8px">=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Yes, your next step would be the same=
test drive, i.e. full engine torque on an uphill grade, to confirm that th=
e slippage issue has returned now that the overdriveoperating valvehasbe re=
-installed.=C2=A0=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">I would do this test drive BEFORE mak=
ing any adjustments to the overdrive valve or solenoid in order to confirm =
that meerly installing the overdrive operating valve resulted in the slippa=
ge issue returning.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Hope the weather improves, beautiful =
day here.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">M</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 7:24 a.m. Simon Lachlan, =
<<a href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"; rel=3D"noopener no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>> wrote=
:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Hi, Thanks for this.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Not sure I understand fully. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Once I=E2=80=99d finished the test drive with the OD operating valv=
e out of the car, I returned the rod, ball, spring etc and put in the gauge=
rather than the nut. And got 500+ psi. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">What I can=E2=80=99t do is understand the leap to the OD cone clutc=
h. Not arguing=E2=80=A6just saying no comprende. As I sat in the car, I was=
thinking that the function of the OD seems OK and that it=E2=80=99s being =
interfered with by something in its circuitry=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6relay, solen=
oid or throttle switch. That=E2=80=99s probably wishful thinking as I reall=
y don=E2=80=99t want to be swimming in those waters.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">I did, as a matter of course, clean out the tiny hole in the rod bu=
t didn=E2=80=99t detect any blockage=E2=80=A6.which doesn=E2=80=99t mean mu=
ch as something minute could have been inside and been washed away by the d=
etergent/hot water then WD40=E2=80=A6..</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">After someone=E2=80=99s advice =E2=80=93 some time back =E2=80=93 I=
=E2=80=99ve got another rod whose aperture has been drilled out to 1.5mm. T=
his was =E2=80=9Cto allow the OD to disengage faster=E2=80=9D. Don=E2=80=99=
t recall if I tried it. Could that rod be any help here?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">The ball seems to be sitting square on its seat and the tip of the =
rod, where the ball sits, is not worn or chipped.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Residual pressure=E2=80=A6.. goes to 500+ when I switch OD ON and s=
tays there until, engine and switch OFF, I energize the solenoid a few time=
s whereupon it drops to zero.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Another test drive(s) seems called for. But the hood is off to enab=
le access and the forecast is grim for the next week.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Very open to more suggestions. Thanks,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Simon</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
'Calibri',sans-serif">From:</span></strong><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',sans-serif"> Michael Salter <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> <br><strong>Sent:</strong> Friday,=
April 26, 2024 12:14 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Simon Lachlan <<a href=
=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br><strong>Cc:</=
strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopen=
er noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>=
Subject:</strong> Re: Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Okay, then it is confirmed that neither the clutch (=
on the flywheel) nor the overdrive cone clutch (in it's normal drive co=
ndition) are producing the slippage.=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">From this we can conclude that even when the overdri=
ve solenoid is <strong><u>not</u></strong> energized=C2=A0the slippage is o=
ccurring at the overdrive cone clutch and that for some reason hydraulic pr=
essure is finding its way into the overdrive operating cylinders even when =
the overdrive operating valve is closed.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This can be caused by leakage past operating the val=
ve or residual pressure.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The question of residual pressure can be resolved by=
checking that the bleed hole in the bottom of the long overdrive valve pus=
h rod is not blocked.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Whether or not hydraulic pressure is leaking past th=
e operating valve ball can be checked by ensuring that the ball is clearly =
on its seat when the operating valve is <strong><u>not=C2=A0</u></strong>=
=C2=A0energized.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">M</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024, 3:38 p.m. Simon Lachlan, <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"; rel=3D"noopener noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>> wrote:</=
p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Of course. Isn=E2=80=99t that how I got the 520psi?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
'Calibri',sans-serif">From:</span></strong><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',sans-serif"> Michael Salter <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> <br><strong>Sent:</strong> Thursda=
y, April 25, 2024 6:19 PM<br><strong>To:</strong> Simon Lachlan <<a href=
=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br><strong>Cc:</=
strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopen=
er noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>=
Subject:</strong> Re: Overdrive pressure or clutch slip Step 2!</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Question=C2=A0 ... when you got home and did the pre=
ssure test I presume that was AFTER you had put the valve with the "to=
p hat", ball, spring and valve rod cap and washer back into position?<=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">M</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024, 12:29 p.m. Simon Lachlan, &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"; rel=3D"noopener nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>> wrote:<=
/p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin:5.0pt 0cm 5.0pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">So, here is Michael=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CStep 1=E2=80=9D completed. (=
See his email, below).</span></p>
<ol>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
;,serif">Removed the operating valve and, just for luck, disconnected the t=
wo wires into 3<sup>rd</sup>/4<sup>th</sup> switch. Took the car for a spin=
. Up/down longish/steepish hills, 10 miles on motorway. Various rpm=E2=80=
=A6..no slippage at all.</span></li>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
;,serif">Had a puncture=E2=80=A6..nail in tyre. Rear RHS. Flat as a pancake=
at once. Nearly onto rim. Nail! I imagine the inner tube is shredded and t=
he tyre may be a write-off. (Usually are!). Anyhow, I bore you with this as=
I=E2=80=99m convinced that I=E2=80=99d never have got the wheel off withou=
t the little scissors jack which I carry to get the car up the first few in=
ches until the Healey jack comes into play. Just a suggestion=E2=80=A6=E2=
=80=A6.</span></li>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
;,serif">Got home and jacked car up to test pressure. Steady at 520psi whic=
h, I recall, is plenty. Stayed at 520 across rev range. Dropped very slowly=
once engine was off and dropped to zero as I engaged/disengaged OD a few t=
imes. Which is normal I think?</span></li>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
;,serif">Solenoid makes a robust =E2=80=9Cclick=E2=80=9D when it should and=
engages the OD when activated.</span></li>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">So what=E2=80=99s a sensible =E2=80=9CStep 2=E2=80=9D??</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">I have been urged to check the setting of the Throttle Switch (TS).=
Assuming that the slippage returns (and why wouldn=E2=80=99t it?), I=E2=80=
=99ll short the TS out to see if that fixes it. If it does, I=E2=80=99ll ch=
eck the adjustment.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Suggestions would be more than welcome=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6I do dread =
having to take that box out again. I=E2=80=99ve got a very adequate ramp an=
d a very strong volunteer(?) but, regardless of all that, it=E2=80=99s stil=
l quite a task. And, like a few of us, I=E2=80=99m not as young as I once w=
as. I=E2=80=99ve always enjoyed the lines from the manual which I reproduce=
, below. =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDGently ease=E2=80=9D!?! </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">Thanks, Simon</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman'=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
'Calibri',sans-serif">From:</span></strong><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri',sans-serif"> Michael Salter <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> <br><strong>Sent:</strong> Monday,=
April 22, 2024 3:21 PM<br><strong>To:</strong> Simon Lachlan <<a href=
=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br><strong>Cc:</=
strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopen=
er noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>=
Subject:</strong> Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip</span></p=
>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><u>Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!</u>=
</strong></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First you need to confirm whether the clutch (on the=
flywheel) or the overdrive is causing the slippage.=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the overdrive=
as a badly misadjuster overdrive operating valve can produce similar sympt=
oms.=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">To do this I would remove the overdrive operating va=
lve completely. (There are other ways but this is absolutely definitive).</=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Now drive the car up a long hill where you are amle =
to use full throttle at around 3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a few seconds.=
If it is the clutch (on the flywheel) that is causing the slippage these o=
perating conditions. Test this a few times to be sure.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If there is no slippage we have confirmed that the o=
verdrive clutch is at fault.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Step 1 completed. Please report results.=C2=A0MS.</p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin:5.0pt 0cm 5.0pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon Lachlan via =
Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin:5.0pt 0cm 5.0pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">You may reca=
ll the very extended overdrive and clutch saga last year.</span> <span styl=
e=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Long story short(ish)=E2=
=80=A6</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">OD was slipp=
ing in and out depending on oil temperature.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Correctly di=
agnosed pressure. Checked with gauge.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Attempted re=
build=E2=80=A6going only so far as</span> <span style=3D"font-family:'T=
imes New Roman',serif">accumulator and related seals.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Stymied as c=
ould not get pump out. Turned out to have been =E2=80=9Cfixed=E2=80=9D at s=
ome stage with some form of =E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=9D which was comi=
ng loose/apart.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Took it up t=
o OD Spares who fixed it..new housing etcetc</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Why not a ne=
w clutch I thought? Sensible while you=E2=80=99re in the area looking at a =
30+ yr old item.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">New clutch=
=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy, wouldn=E2=80=99t</span> <span style=3D"font-family=
:'Times New Roman',serif">engage/disengage/play at all.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Gearbox out =
again.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Refit clutch=
. Presumed I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s mistake.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Refit gearbo=
x=E2=80=A6no good. Same</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Can=E2=80=99=
t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and enthusiasm by now.</span></p=
>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Turned out t=
hat the new clutch kit was defective. (Thanks Mirek) (Genuine B&B from =
AHSpares).</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">New one did =
work.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Saga over un=
til yesterday.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Same sort of=
symptoms=E2=80=A6..</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">All=E2=80=99=
s well for first 10 or so miles. Then the dreaded slippage(?) starts. But i=
t=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds me more of a slipping clutch. (But =
NO smell)</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Symptoms con=
tinue if it=E2=80=99s in or out of OD.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Symptoms red=
uce at speed.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Yes, plenty =
of oil. Over the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sure it=E2=80=99s 40wt=
</span> <span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">non-det=
ergent topped up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or vice-versa).</span> <span sty=
le=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Am confident in state of=
the filter, magnets etc.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">No, I have n=
ot pressure tested it yet and yes, I dread restarting the whole bloody proc=
ess all over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I can face taking the box out agai=
n once, let alone multiple times.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">What I want =
and experience tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a miracle cure!</spa=
n></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">One initial =
question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work or not work? ie, can the relay =
hover between on and off</span> <span style=3D"font-family:'Times New R=
oman',serif">which might lead to the OD coming in and out? I think that=
could happen if the switch is off but the unit still hasn=E2=80=99t got th=
e message to disengage from the bulkhead switch.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">And a supple=
mentary=E2=80=A6.how</span> <span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman=
',serif">do I bench test</span> <span style=3D"font-family:'Times N=
ew Roman',serif">the relay?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Simon</span>=
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
nk" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferr=
er">Healeys@autox.team.net</a>
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eam.net/mailman/options/healeys/bspidell@comcast.net</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div><br><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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r>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
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