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First thing to do as per MS is to identify which clutch is slipping.
Regarding testing the solenoid, not as simple as the relay.
They have 2 coils - a holding and pull in that is disabled when engaged by
a small switch.
I would suggest leaving it attached to the OD with cover off.
Pull the wire off the GB 3/4 switch and feed directly with 12V. The
solenoid should move the operating lever positively. Check for full motion.
There is supposed to be about 10 thou shaft end float to avoid binding.
If you have a dc ammeter then you should see an initial current of around
18A from memory then almost immediately dropping to around 3-4A. It should
also drop freely when off.
Do check the TS.
Good luck
rg
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On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 1:13=E2=80=AFPM Simon Lachlan <
simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
> Alright=E2=80=A6thanks for the replies so far. Still trying to get all my=
ducks in
> a row before I pick up the spanners.
>
> Next question,,,,solenoids. Do they fail 100% or can they wobble
> inbetween? Likewise, might give same symptoms. (Any straw worth clutchin=
g?)
>
> And again, how to bench test a solenoid?
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> *From:* Roger Grace <roggrace@telus.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2024 4:27 PM
> *To:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Simon Lachlan <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>; Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip
>
>
>
> Agree - I had to re read your note to be sure which clutch you were
> talking about.
>
> If you have the GB cover still on you, could disable the OD by
> disconnecting the solenoid - probably easier than removing the operating
> valve.
>
> Regarding testing the OD relay, yes as MS says they usually fail
> positively and usually the operating coil.
>
> To bench test:
>
> With a 12V supply on W1 and W2 you should hear a clear click for ON and O=
FF
>
> This would prove that the coil is OK
>
> Contacts not quite as easy to verify.
>
> Same test as above but an ohm meter on lowest scale across C1 and C2
>
> An anologue meter is preferable and you can see if there is any dithering
> when the contacts close. Operating should be positive and crisp.
>
> I would also be suspicious of the TS - they can have some weird failure
> modes and go out of adjustment,
>
> rg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&=
utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail>
>
> Virus-free.www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&=
utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 7:39=E2=80=AFAM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gma=
il.com>
> wrote:
>
> *Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!*
>
>
>
> First you need to confirm whether the clutch (on the flywheel) or the
> overdrive is causing the slippage.
>
> To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the overdrive as a badly
> misadjuster overdrive operating valve can produce similar symptoms.
>
> To do this I would remove the overdrive operating valve completely. (Ther=
e
> are other ways but this is absolutely definitive).
>
> Now drive the car up a long hill where you are amle to use full throttle
> at around 3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a few seconds. If it is the clutc=
h
> (on the flywheel) that is causing the slippage these operating conditions=
.
> Test this a few times to be sure.
>
> If there is no slippage we have confirmed that the overdrive clutch is at
> fault.
>
>
>
> Step 1 completed. Please report results.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 9:03 a.m. Michael Salter, <michaelsalter@gmail.co=
m>
> wrote:
>
> In my experience relays are yes/no. No "maybe".
>
>
>
> On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon Lachlan via Healeys, <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> You may recall the very extended overdrive and clutch saga last year. Lon=
g
> story short(ish)=E2=80=A6
>
> OD was slipping in and out depending on oil temperature.
>
> Correctly diagnosed pressure. Checked with gauge.
>
> Attempted rebuild=E2=80=A6going only so far as accumulator and related se=
als.
>
> Stymied as could not get pump out. Turned out to have been =E2=80=9Cfixed=
=E2=80=9D at some
> stage with some form of =E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=9D which was coming=
loose/apart.
>
> Took it up to OD Spares who fixed it..new housing etcetc
>
> Why not a new clutch I thought? Sensible while you=E2=80=99re in the area=
looking
> at a 30+ yr old item.
>
> New clutch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy, wouldn=E2=80=99t engage/disengage/play=
at all.
>
> Gearbox out again.
>
> Refit clutch. Presumed I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s mistake.
>
> Refit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good. Same
>
> Can=E2=80=99t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and enthusiasm by =
now.
>
> Turned out that the new clutch kit was defective. (Thanks Mirek) (Genuine
> B&B from AHSpares).
>
> New one did work.
>
> Saga over until yesterday.
>
> Same sort of symptoms=E2=80=A6..
>
> All=E2=80=99s well for first 10 or so miles. Then the dreaded slippage(?)=
starts.
> But it=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds me more of a slipping clutch=
. (But NO
> smell)
>
> Symptoms continue if it=E2=80=99s in or out of OD.
>
> Symptoms reduce at speed.
>
> Yes, plenty of oil. Over the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sure it=
=E2=80=99s
> 40wt non-detergent topped up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or vice-versa). Am
> confident in state of the filter, magnets etc.
>
> No, I have not pressure tested it yet and yes, I dread restarting the
> whole bloody process all over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I can face taki=
ng the box
> out again once, let alone multiple times.
>
> What I want and experience tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a mira=
cle cure!
>
> One initial question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work or not work? ie, =
can the
> relay hover between on and off which might lead to the OD coming in and
> out? I think that could happen if the switch is off but the unit still
> hasn=E2=80=99t got the message to disengage from the bulkhead switch.
>
> And a supplementary=E2=80=A6.how do I bench test the relay?
>
> Simon
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
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--00000000000068c0cc0616b5b5ac
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>First thing to do as per MS is to identify which clut=
ch is slipping.</div><div>Regarding testing the solenoid, not as simple as =
the relay.</div><div>They have 2 coils - a holding and pull in that is disa=
bled when engaged by a small switch.</div><div>I would suggest leaving it a=
ttached to the OD with cover off.</div><div>Pull the wire off the GB 3/4 sw=
itch and feed directly with 12V. The solenoid should move the operating lev=
er positively. Check for full motion. There is supposed to be about 10 thou=
shaft end float to avoid binding. <br></div><div>If you have a dc ammeter =
then you should see an initial current of around 18A from memory then almos=
t immediately dropping to around 3-4A. It should also drop freely when off.=
<br></div><div>Do check the TS.</div><div>Good luck</div><div>rg<br></div>=
</div><div id=3D"DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br><table style=3D"=
border-top:1px solid #d3d4de"><tr><td style=3D"width:55px;padding-top:13px"=
><a href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_s=
ource=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail" target=
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envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" alt=3D"" width=3D"46" height=3D"29" style=
=3D"width: 46px; height: 29px;"></a></td><td style=3D"width:470px;padding-t=
op:12px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif=
;line-height:18px">Virus-free.<a href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature=
?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&=
utm_content=3Dwebmail" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color:#4453ea">www.avg.co=
m</a></td></tr></table><a href=3D"#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" wi=
dth=3D"1" height=3D"1"></a></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 1:13=E2=80=AFPM Simon La=
chlan <<a href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com";>simon.lachla=
n@alexarevel.plus.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg3926311272033807895"><div lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class=3D"m_392631127203380789=
5WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Time=
s New Roman",serif">Alright=E2=80=A6thanks for the replies so far. Sti=
ll trying to get all my ducks in a row before I pick up the spanners.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"=
Times New Roman",serif">Next question,,,,solenoids. Do they fail 100% =
or can they wobble inbetween? Likewise, might give same symptoms. (Any stra=
w worth=C2=A0 clutching?)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">And again, how =
to bench test a solenoid?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Simon<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Time=
s New Roman",serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div style=3D"borde=
r-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225=
,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Roger Grace <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:roggrace@telus.net"; target=3D"_blank">roggrace@telus.net</a>>=
; <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 22, 2024 4:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael Sal=
ter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">michae=
lsalter@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Simon Lachlan <<a href=3D"mailto=
:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexare=
vel.plus.com</a>>; Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"=
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [H=
ealeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">Agree - I had to re read your note to be sure which clutch you were talki=
ng about.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you have th=
e GB cover still on you, could disable the OD by disconnecting the solenoid=
- probably easier than removing the operating valve.<u></u><u></u></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regarding testing the OD relay, yes as MS say=
s they usually fail positively and usually the operating coil.<u></u><u></u=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">To bench test:<u></u><u></u></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">With a 12V supply on W1 and W2 you should hea=
r a clear click for ON and OFF<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">This would prove that the coil is OK<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Contacts not quite as easy to verify.<u></u><u></u></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Same test as above but an ohm meter on lo=
west scale across C1 and C2<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">An anologue meter is preferable and you can see if there is any ditheri=
ng when the contacts close. Operating should be positive and crisp.<u></u><=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would also be suspicious of t=
he TS - they can have some weird failure modes and go out of adjustment,<u>=
</u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">rg<u></u><u></u></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div id=3D"m_3926311272033807895m_=
-7026411280735381914DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><table border=3D"1" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpad=
ding=3D"0" style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none =
none;border-color:rgb(211,212,222) currentcolor currentcolor"><tbody><tr><t=
d width=3D"55" style=3D"width:41.25pt;border:medium;padding:9.75pt 0.75pt 0=
.75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature=
?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&=
utm_content=3Dwebmail" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid wi=
ndowtext;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"46" h=
eight=3D"29" style=3D"width: 0.4833in; height: 0.3in;" id=3D"m_392631127203=
3807895Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:ii_18f078d0d69bee2ed7e1" alt=3D"Image re=
moved by sender."></span></a><u></u><u></u></p></td><td width=3D"470" style=
=3D"width:352.5pt;border:medium;padding:9pt 0.75pt 0.75pt"><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"line-height:13.5pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial",sans-serif;color:rgb(65,66,78)">Virus-free.<a href=3D"=
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink=
&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail" target=3D"_blank">=
<span style=3D"color:rgb(68,83,234)">www.avg.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></=
span></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at=
7:39<span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=E2=80=AF</sp=
an>AM Michael Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><=
blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none=
none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u>Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!</u=
></b><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">First you need to confirm whether the cl=
utch (on the flywheel) or the overdrive is causing the slippage.=C2=A0<u></=
u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST dis=
able the overdrive as a badly misadjuster overdrive operating valve can pro=
duce similar symptoms.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">To do this I would remove the overdrive operating valve completely. (T=
here are other ways but this is absolutely definitive).<u></u><u></u></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Now drive the car up a long hill where you =
are amle to use full throttle at around 3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a few=
seconds. If it is the clutch (on the flywheel) that is causing the slippag=
e these operating conditions. Test this a few times to be sure.<u></u><u></=
u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If there is no slippage we have con=
firmed that the overdrive clutch is at fault.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">Step 1 completed. Please report results.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024,=
9:03 a.m. Michael Salter, <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; t=
arget=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></=
div><blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style=
:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor r=
gb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In my experience relays are yes/no. No "m=
aybe".<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. S=
imon Lachlan via Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; tar=
get=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div=
><blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:no=
ne none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(=
204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><d=
iv><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You may=
recall the very extended overdrive and clutch saga last year.</span> <span=
style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Long story short(i=
sh)=E2=80=A6</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Ti=
mes New Roman",serif">OD was slipping in and out depending on oil temp=
erature.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times =
New Roman",serif">Correctly diagnosed pressure. Checked with gauge.</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman&q=
uot;,serif">Attempted rebuild=E2=80=A6going only so far as</span> <span sty=
le=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">accumulator and relate=
d seals.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times =
New Roman",serif">Stymied as could not get pump out. Turned out to hav=
e been =E2=80=9Cfixed=E2=80=9D at some stage with some form of =E2=80=9Cche=
mical metal=E2=80=9D which was coming loose/apart.</span><u></u><u></u></p>=
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Took it up=
to OD Spares who fixed it..new housing etcetc</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><=
span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Why not a new =
clutch I thought? Sensible while you=E2=80=99re in the area looking at a 30=
+ yr old item.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"=
Times New Roman",serif">New clutch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy, wouldn=E2=
=80=99t</span> <span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif=
">engage/disengage/play at all.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Gearbox out again.</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",ser=
if">Refit clutch. Presumed I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s mistake=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Rom=
an",serif">Refit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good. Same</span><u></u><u></u></p=
><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Can=E2=80=
=99t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and enthusiasm by now.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman"=
,serif">Turned out that the new clutch kit was defective. (Thanks Mirek) (G=
enuine B&B from AHSpares).</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:"Times New Roman",serif">New one did work.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif=
">Saga over until yesterday.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font=
-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Same sort of symptoms=E2=80=A6..=
</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roma=
n",serif">All=E2=80=99s well for first 10 or so miles. Then the dreade=
d slippage(?) starts. But it=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds me more =
of a slipping clutch. (But NO smell)</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=
=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Symptoms continue if it=
=E2=80=99s in or out of OD.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-=
family:"Times New Roman",serif">Symptoms reduce at speed.</span><=
u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",=
serif">Yes, plenty of oil. Over the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sur=
e it=E2=80=99s 40wt</span> <span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman=
",serif">non-detergent topped up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or vice-ver=
sa).</span> <span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">A=
m confident in state of the filter, magnets etc.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p=
><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">No, I have n=
ot pressure tested it yet and yes, I dread restarting the whole bloody proc=
ess all over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I can face taking the box out agai=
n once, let alone multiple times.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style=3D=
"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">What I want and experience =
tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a miracle cure!</span><u></u><u></u=
></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">One i=
nitial question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work or not work? ie, can the=
relay hover between on and off</span> <span style=3D"font-family:"Tim=
es New Roman",serif">which might lead to the OD coming in and out? I t=
hink that could happen if the switch is off but the unit still hasn=E2=80=
=99t got the message to disengage from the bulkhead switch.</span><u></u><u=
></u></p><p><span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">A=
nd a supplementary=E2=80=A6.how</span> <span style=3D"font-family:"Tim=
es New Roman",serif">do I bench test</span> <span style=3D"font-family=
:"Times New Roman",serif">the relay?</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><=
span style=3D"font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Simon</span><u=
></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_=
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