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Alright=E2=80=A6thanks for the replies so far. Still trying to get all =
my ducks in a row before I pick up the spanners.
Next question,,,,solenoids. Do they fail 100% or can they wobble =
inbetween? Likewise, might give same symptoms. (Any straw worth =
clutching?)
And again, how to bench test a solenoid?
Simon
=20
From: Roger Grace <roggrace@telus.net>=20
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 4:27 PM
To: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
Cc: Simon Lachlan <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>; Healeys =
<healeys@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip
=20
Agree - I had to re read your note to be sure which clutch you were =
talking about.
If you have the GB cover still on you, could disable the OD by =
disconnecting the solenoid - probably easier than removing the operating =
valve.
Regarding testing the OD relay, yes as MS says they usually fail =
positively and usually the operating coil.
To bench test:
With a 12V supply on W1 and W2 you should hear a clear click for ON and =
OFF
This would prove that the coil is OK
Contacts not quite as easy to verify.
Same test as above but an ohm meter on lowest scale across C1 and C2
An anologue meter is preferable and you can see if there is any =
dithering when the contacts close. Operating should be positive and =
crisp.
I would also be suspicious of the TS - they can have some weird failure =
modes and go out of adjustment,
rg
=20
=20
=20
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<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&=
utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail>=20
Virus-free. =
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&=
utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail> www.avg.com
=20
On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 7:39=E2=80=AFAM Michael Salter =
Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!
=20
First you need to confirm whether the clutch (on the flywheel) or the =
overdrive is causing the slippage.=20
To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the overdrive as a badly =
misadjuster overdrive operating valve can produce similar symptoms.=20
To do this I would remove the overdrive operating valve completely. =
(There are other ways but this is absolutely definitive).
Now drive the car up a long hill where you are amle to use full throttle =
at around 3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a few seconds. If it is the =
clutch (on the flywheel) that is causing the slippage these operating =
conditions. Test this a few times to be sure.
If there is no slippage we have confirmed that the overdrive clutch is =
at fault.
=20
Step 1 completed. Please report results.=20
=20
=20
=20
On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 9:03 a.m. Michael Salter, =
In my experience relays are yes/no. No "maybe".
=20
On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon Lachlan via Healeys, =
You may recall the very extended overdrive and clutch saga last year. =
Long story short(ish)=E2=80=A6
OD was slipping in and out depending on oil temperature.
Correctly diagnosed pressure. Checked with gauge.
Attempted rebuild=E2=80=A6going only so far as accumulator and related =
seals.
Stymied as could not get pump out. Turned out to have been =
=E2=80=9Cfixed=E2=80=9D at some stage with some form of =
=E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=9D which was coming loose/apart.
Took it up to OD Spares who fixed it..new housing etcetc
Why not a new clutch I thought? Sensible while you=E2=80=99re in the =
area looking at a 30+ yr old item.
New clutch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy, wouldn=E2=80=99t =
engage/disengage/play at all.
Gearbox out again.
Refit clutch. Presumed I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s mistake.
Refit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good. Same
Can=E2=80=99t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and enthusiasm by =
now.
Turned out that the new clutch kit was defective. (Thanks Mirek) =
(Genuine B&B from AHSpares).
New one did work.
Saga over until yesterday.
Same sort of symptoms=E2=80=A6..
All=E2=80=99s well for first 10 or so miles. Then the dreaded =
slippage(?) starts. But it=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds me more =
of a slipping clutch. (But NO smell)
Symptoms continue if it=E2=80=99s in or out of OD.
Symptoms reduce at speed.
Yes, plenty of oil. Over the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sure =
it=E2=80=99s 40wt non-detergent topped up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or =
vice-versa). Am confident in state of the filter, magnets etc.
No, I have not pressure tested it yet and yes, I dread restarting the =
whole bloody process all over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I can face =
taking the box out again once, let alone multiple times.
What I want and experience tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a =
miracle cure!
One initial question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work or not work? ie, =
can the relay hover between on and off which might lead to the OD coming =
in and out? I think that could happen if the switch is off but the unit =
still hasn=E2=80=99t got the message to disengage from the bulkhead =
switch.
And a supplementary=E2=80=A6.how do I bench test the relay?
Simon
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
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http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Alright=E2=80=A6thanks for the =
replies so far. Still trying to get all my ducks in a row before I pick =
up the spanners.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Next question,,,,solenoids. Do =
they fail 100% or can they wobble inbetween? Likewise, might give same =
symptoms. (Any straw worth=C2=A0 clutching?)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>And again, how to bench test a =
solenoid?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div=
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Roger Grace =
<roggrace@telus.net> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 22, 2024 4:27 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael Salter =
<michaelsalter@gmail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> Simon Lachlan =
<simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com>; Healeys =
<healeys@autox.team.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] =
Overdrive pressure or clutch slip<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Agree - I had to re read your note to be sure which =
clutch you were talking about.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>If you have the GB cover still on you, could disable =
the OD by disconnecting the solenoid - probably easier than removing the =
operating valve.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regarding =
testing the OD relay, yes as MS says they usually fail positively and =
usually the operating coil.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>To bench test:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>With a 12V supply on W1 and W2 you should hear a clear =
click for ON and OFF<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>This =
would prove that the coil is OK<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Contacts not quite as easy to =
verify.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Same test as above =
but an ohm meter on lowest scale across C1 and =
C2<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>An anologue meter is =
preferable and you can see if there is any dithering when the contacts =
close. Operating should be positive and =
crisp.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I would also be =
suspicious of the TS - they can have some weird failure modes and go out =
of adjustment,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>rg<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div =
id=3D"m_-7026411280735381914DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D1 cellspacing=3D3 cellpadding=3D0 =
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style=3D'width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_sou=
rce=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail" =
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src=3D"cid:~WRD0000.jpg" alt=3D"Image removed by =
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style=3D'width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:13.5pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>V=
irus-free.<a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_sou=
rce=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'color:#4453EA'>www.avg.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></td>=
</tr></table></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 7:39<span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>=E2=80=AF</span>AM Michael =
Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><u>Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the =
repair!!</u></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>First =
you need to confirm whether the clutch (on the flywheel) or the =
overdrive is causing the slippage. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the overdrive =
as a badly misadjuster overdrive operating valve can produce similar =
symptoms. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>To do this =
I would remove the overdrive operating valve completely. (There are =
other ways but this is absolutely =
definitive).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Now drive the =
car up a long hill where you are amle to use full throttle at around =
3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a few seconds. If it is the clutch (on the =
flywheel) that is causing the slippage these operating conditions. Test =
this a few times to be sure.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>If there is no slippage we have confirmed that the =
overdrive clutch is at fault.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Step 1 completed. Please report =
results. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 9:03 a.m. Michael Salter, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>In =
my experience relays are yes/no. No =
"maybe".<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon Lachlan via Healeys, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>You may recall the very =
extended overdrive and clutch saga last year.</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Long story =
short(ish)=E2=80=A6</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>OD was slipping in and out =
depending on oil temperature.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Correctly diagnosed =
pressure. Checked with gauge.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Attempted =
rebuild=E2=80=A6going only so far as</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>accumulator and related =
seals.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Stymied as could not get pump out. Turned out to have been =
=E2=80=9Cfixed=E2=80=9D at some stage with some form of =
=E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=9D which was coming =
loose/apart.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times =
New Roman",serif'>Took it up to OD Spares who fixed it..new housing =
etcetc</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Why not a new clutch I thought? Sensible while =
you=E2=80=99re in the area looking at a 30+ yr old =
item.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>New clutch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy, wouldn=E2=80=99t</span> =
<span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>engage/disengage/play at =
all.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Gearbox out again.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Refit clutch. Presumed =
I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s =
mistake.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Refit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good. =
Same</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Can=E2=80=99t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and =
enthusiasm by now.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Turned out that the new =
clutch kit was defective. (Thanks Mirek) (Genuine B&B from =
AHSpares).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>New one did work.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Saga over until =
yesterday.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Same sort of =
symptoms=E2=80=A6..</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>All=E2=80=99s well for =
first 10 or so miles. Then the dreaded slippage(?) starts. But =
it=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds me more of a slipping clutch. =
(But NO smell)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times =
New Roman",serif'>Symptoms continue if it=E2=80=99s in or out of =
OD.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Symptoms reduce at speed.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Yes, plenty of oil. Over =
the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sure it=E2=80=99s 40wt</span> =
<span style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>non-detergent topped =
up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or vice-versa).</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Am confident in state of =
the filter, magnets etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>No, I have not pressure =
tested it yet and yes, I dread restarting the whole bloody process all =
over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I can face taking the box out again =
once, let alone multiple times.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>What I want and experience =
tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a miracle =
cure!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>One initial question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work or =
not work? ie, can the relay hover between on and off</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>which might lead to the OD =
coming in and out? I think that could happen if the switch is off but =
the unit still hasn=E2=80=99t got the message to disengage from the =
bulkhead switch.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>And a =
supplementary=E2=80=A6.how</span> <span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>do I bench test</span> <span style=3D'font-family:"Times =
New Roman",serif'>the relay?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Simon</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
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