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The fact that it=E2=80=99s a BN1 chassis (no flanges on the shocks =
tower) is certainly a red flag and I think that anyone who caught that =
discrepancy should feel obligated to inform prospective buyers. If =
you=E2=80=99re gonna clone a 100M, at least do it on a BN2 chassis. =
Right? =20
Rick is spot on. =E2=80=9CIf a seller doesn=E2=80=99t want honest =
opinions, go offer it somewhere else=E2=80=A6.. =E2=80=9C. =20
Richard Mayor
boyracer466@gmail.com
> On Dec 17, 2023, at 3:29 PM, HealeyRick <healeyrik@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Craig,
>=20
> Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk a tightrope between helping =
bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a seller's sale. I won't comment on =
a sale of someone I know because I don't want to be accused of puffing =
their sale or OTOH submarining one that is being offered by a friend. If =
a seller doesn't want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere else and =
stay off BaT. Someone who benefitted from your advice should be =
thankful. It's not supposed to be a cheerleading squad every time a =
person puts a car up for auction.
>=20
> Happy Healeydays,
> Rick Neville
>=20
> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper =
>> Re: Recent 100 M on BaT
>>=20
>> Rick and Bob: I did it. I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that =
there is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen =
other issues that went unanswered. Being incredulous at the number of =
issues on the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being =
presented, I showed the pictures to my fellow Healey 100 obsessed =
neighbor who said "Aren't those BN1 shock towers?" I had also recently =
watched the walk around video and simply couldn't contain myself. Maybe =
it would have been better to just reach out to the seller, but I didn't =
think of that until just now. Contrary to being savage, I think my =
remarks showed restraint. There is a lot more there, and I didn't =
mention any of the top side problems. (Bob, I laughed when I read your =
"ashtray delete" remark) I think the open discussion of shortcomings of =
cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer and the seller. Imagine the =
embarrassment of a neophyte Healey 100 enthusiast having paid top =
dollar for this car entering it in a concours ("would be welcome and do =
well in any concours") and having it judged to AH Club USA concours =
standards, or more likely declined to be judged. Think he might seek =
legal remedy? I wouldn't want to be the guy who sold it to him.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM =
wrote:
>>> Send Healeys mailing list submissions to
>>>=20
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> healeys-request@autox.team.net =
>>>=20
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> healeys-owner@autox.team.net =
>>>=20
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Healeys digest..."
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>=20
>>> 1. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)
>>> 2. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)
>>> 3. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (rfbegani@gmail.com =
>>> 4. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (David Masucci)
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Cc:=20
>>> Bcc:=20
>>> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>> On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:
>>> > Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take =
over=20
>>> > the registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of =
doing=20
>>> > so came up and we decided that the price of admission was way too =
high=20
>>> > for something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work =
involved.
>>>=20
>>> Try running Team Net for 30+ years!
>>>=20
>>> mjb.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>> Cc: Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com =
>>> Bcc:=20
>>> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>> Rick,
>>>=20
>>> Last I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another =
listing for this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as =
having a replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have =
no issues with it; it is, essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) =
reduced price. The commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he =
knows what s/he got, and is happy with it, that's great.
>>>=20
>>> Bob
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>>> Bob,
>>>>=20
>>>> As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for the =
Healey Marque this 100M discussion has been really helpful and =
interesting. I think your comment " I was surprised Bill let the =
incorrect carbs and distributor slide " raises a great question of what =
exactly is the 100M certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an =
article on what needs to be presented to be certified. =
https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf=C2=A0 =
<https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf> But =
it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that it left the =
factory with. I find it interesting there's no necessity for pictures of =
the engine number. And even if all the body parts, carbs, and =
distributor aren't there, Bill says in the article "If some of these =
items are missing, let the Registry know. It normally does not prevent =
registration provided enough ID points are present." So my impression, =
which I'll try to verify with Bill, is the certification is focused on =
the question whether this is the car that left the factory that matches =
the BMIHT certificate saying it had a louvered hood and not so much on =
whether it still has all the original parts an M would have come with.
>>>> I think one of the benefits of the BaT comments for buyers =
(and probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out major =
deficiencies with an offering. Some buyer might have paid way more this =
car than it would be worth if not for the "savage" comments.
>>>>=20
>>>> Happy Healeydays
>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>>>> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to =
mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a =
case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing =
people to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is =
worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever =
someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely =
interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days =
'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number of =
Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine =
Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> =46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> =
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>>>>>> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a =
new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of =
what might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>>>>>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> bs
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there =
isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.=20
>>>>>>>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance =
modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily =
copied, then I would consider them be very special.
>>>>>>>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be =
surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
>>>>>>>> Just my opinion.=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> M
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, =
>>>>>>>>> What makes a 100M?=20
>>>>>>>>> Very good question and not easy to answer.
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price =
category is significantly higher than the normal 100,=20
>>>>>>>>> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily =
modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and=20
>>>>>>>>> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis =
would be such a major modification for me, as would a=20
>>>>>>>>> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a =
Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a=20
>>>>>>>>> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original =
Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
>>>>>>>>> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the =
car is. It's a special model with a little more=20
>>>>>>>>> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an =
Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> Josef Eckert
>>>>>>>>> Germany
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>>>>>>>> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>>>>>>>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>>>>>>>> An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik@gmail.com =
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' =
which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a =
'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, =
but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an =
M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an =
earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full =
disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been =
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they =
cars or rock bands).
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>>>>>>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it =
needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body =
parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis =
plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body =
parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with =
non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent =
Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some =
pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis =
and still bring big money at auction.=20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer =
has its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character =
as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if =
a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. =
Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much =
of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original =
carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an =
original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the =
rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there =
is still a 100M cam in the lump!
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>>>>>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell =
>>>>>>>>>> Excellent report, thank you.=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car).=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this =
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its =
value shouldbe less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. =
And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this =
car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would =
need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> If you were following it recently, you might find my =
observations interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to =
help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I =
found.
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It =
has the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded =
BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock =
towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. =
The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were =
replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD =
relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different =
directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of =
then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just =
below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that =
was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care =
to try and make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with =
that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the =
firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the =
firewall, you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what =
would be a BN2 relay position.=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they =
appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate =
appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct =
M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was =
replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to =
the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being =
swapped off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the =
boot shows some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I =
could not make out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in =
from a M bonnet, but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed =
suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the =
boot, but that would be for someone else to decide.=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I =
simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it =
looks old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some =
effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a =
BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to =
fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. =
Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the =
BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the =
car correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is =
straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a =
very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of =
experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the =
quality of the restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to =
shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd =
think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=20=
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> The Millers
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car =
is a test drive."
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>>>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyrik@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
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>>>>>=20
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>>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Bcc:=20
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>> Dear Josef:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Your comments are the same in the USA especially in Florida where =
there are large numbers of retired people. My good friend and President =
of our British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said =
that younger people want Japanese or European sports cars. It is the =
same for those who enjoy boating. Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old. =
I had to give away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our =
summer home on Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort. =
I still have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida =
and will continue to sail in accordance with the agreement with my wife =
that I will not sail alone. =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very large and growing =
thanks to the efforts of Hermann who revived the club. He is a born =
salesman and a lover of old sports cars.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Bob Begani
>>>=20
>>> 67 BJ8
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net =
via Healeys
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 1:15 PM
>>> To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys =
and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's =
like the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's =
traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high =
traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake. A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele =
that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly =
anyone has met Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know =
him either. I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite =
well, having met through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone =
here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. =
All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M =
is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable =
100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is =
also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, =
Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand =
because it offers just enough comfort. But younger people don't want =
these old cars at all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something =
else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and =
that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs =
are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar =
XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.
>>> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The =
beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 =
years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. =
There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs =
anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then =
done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events =
which are expensive, but not inviting.
>>> =20
>>> Josef Eckert
>>> Germany
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: David Masucci <dmasucci@charter.net =
>>> Cc: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>> Bcc:=20
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>> All of this is inevitable, and not a bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just =
continue to enjoy what we can while we can. There will be other passions =
that will entice follow-on generations to enjoy memories from their =
youth.=20
>>>=20
>>> Dave
>>>=20
>>>> On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys =
>>>>=20
>>>> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys =
and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's =
like the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's =
traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high =
traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake. A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele =
that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly =
anyone has met Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know =
him either. I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite =
well, having met through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone =
here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. =
All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M =
is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable =
100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is =
also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, =
Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand =
because it offers just enough comfort. But younger people don't want =
these old cars at all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something =
else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and =
that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs =
are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar =
XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.
>>>> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The =
beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 =
years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. =
There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs =
anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then =
done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events =
which are expensive, but not inviting.
>>>> =20
>>>> Josef Eckert
>>>> Germany
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>>> Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100
>>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>>> An: "Michael Oritt" <michael.oritt@gmail.com =
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention =
that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>>>>=20
>>>> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is =
worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever =
someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely =
interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days =
'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number of =
Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine =
Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).=20
>>>>=20
>>>> =46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:
>>>>=20
>>>> =
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>>>> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new =
car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of =
what might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.
>>>> =20
>>>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>>>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> bs
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't =
that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.=20
>>>>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance =
modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily =
copied, then I would consider them be very special.
>>>>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be =
surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
>>>>> Just my opinion.=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> M
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, =
>>>>>> What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. In =
my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is =
significantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any modification =
reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a =
modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new =
chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a conversion =
to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, =
etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather =
buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to =
admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what =
the car is. It's a special model with a little more horsepower, but not =
anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. =
Josef Eckert Germany=20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>>>>> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>>>>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>>>>> An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik@gmail.com =
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which =
may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better =
M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but =
I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M =
body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an =
earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full =
disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been =
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they =
cars or rock bands).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>>>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that =
caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it =
needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body =
parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis =
plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body =
parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with =
non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent =
Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some =
pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis =
and still bring big money at auction.=20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer has =
its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as =
an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a =
Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. =
Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much =
of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original =
carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an =
original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the =
rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there =
is still a 100M cam in the lump!
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell =
>>>>>>> Excellent report, thank you.=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car).=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this =
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its =
value should be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. =
And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this =
car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would =
need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>>>>>> If you were following it recently, you might find my =
observations interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to =
help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I =
found.
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has =
the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 =
bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock =
towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. =
The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were =
replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD =
relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different =
directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of =
then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just =
below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that =
was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care =
to try and make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with =
that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the =
firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the =
firewall, you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what =
would be a BN2 relay position.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they =
appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate =
appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct =
M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was =
replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to =
the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped =
off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows =
some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make =
out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, =
but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously =
clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that =
would be for someone else to decide.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I =
simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it =
looks old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some =
effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a =
BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to =
fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. =
Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the =
BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car =
correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is =
straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a =
very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of =
experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the =
quality of the restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to =
shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd =
think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=20=
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> The Millers
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is =
a test drive."
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> =
>>>>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyrik@gmail.com
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> =
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>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>>>>=20
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>>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> =
>>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
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>>>>>=20
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>>>>>=20
>>>> =EF=BB=BF
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>>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>>=20
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
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>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>=20
>>> archives: http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>=20
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> _______________________________________________
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> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>=20
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--Apple-Mail=_B7CF482C-98D4-4CB2-8C63-42C117595F5C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">The fact that =
it=E2=80=99s a BN1 chassis (no flanges on the shocks tower) is certainly =
a red flag and I think that anyone who caught that discrepancy should =
feel obligated to inform prospective buyers. If you=E2=80=99re =
gonna clone a 100M, at least do it on a BN2 chassis. Right? =
<div><br></div><div>Rick is spot on. =E2=80=9CIf a seller =
doesn=E2=80=99t want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere else=E2=80=A6.=
. =E2=80=9C. </div><div><br></div><div><div>
<div>Richard =
Mayor</div><div>boyracer466@gmail.com</div><div><br></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 17, 2023, at 3:29 PM, =
HealeyRick <healeyrik@gmail.com> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset=3D"UTF-8"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;">Craig,<div><br></div><div>Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk =
a tightrope between helping bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a =
seller's sale. I won't comment on a sale of someone I know because I =
don't want to be accused of puffing their sale or OTOH submarining one =
that is being offered by a friend. If a seller doesn't want honest =
opinions, go offer it somewhere else and stay off BaT. Someone who =
benefitted from your advice should be thankful. It's not supposed =
to be a cheerleading squad every time a person puts a car up for =
auction.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy Healeydays,</div><div>Rick =
Neville</div></div><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, =
Dec 17, 2023 at 3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper <<a =
href=3D"mailto:craiginchico@gmail.com";>craiginchico@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: large;">Re: =
Recent 100 M on BaT</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: =
large;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: =
large;">Rick and Bob: I did it. I was the one who posted on =
BaT Nov.16 that there is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe =
half a dozen other issues that went unanswered. Being incredulous =
at the number of issues on the bottom of the car, considering how =
glowingly it was being presented, I showed the pictures to my fellow =
Healey 100 obsessed neighbor who said "Aren't those BN1 shock =
towers?" I had also recently watched the walk around video and =
simply couldn't contain myself. Maybe it would have been better to =
just reach out to the seller, but I didn't think of that until just =
now. Contrary to being savage, I think my remarks showed =
restraint. There is a lot more there, and I didn't mention any of =
the top side problems. (Bob, I laughed when I read your =
"ashtray delete" remark) I think the open discussion of =
shortcomings of cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer and the =
seller. Imagine the embarrassment of a neophyte Healey 100 =
enthusiast having paid top dollar for this car entering it in a =
concours ("would be welcome and do well in any concours") and having it =
judged to AH Club USA concours standards, or more likely declined to be =
judged. Think he might seek legal remedy? I wouldn't want to =
be the guy who sold it to him.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size: large;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size: large;"> </div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec =
17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-request@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys-request@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Send =
Healeys mailing list submissions to<br> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><br>To subscribe or =
unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> =
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferrer"=
=
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>or=
, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> =
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-request@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys-request@autox.team.net</a><br><br>You can =
reach the person managing the list at<br> =
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-owner@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys-owner@autox.team.net</a><br><br>When replying, =
please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: =
Contents of Healeys digest..."<br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. =
Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)<br> 2. Re: Recent =
100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)<br> 3. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (<a =
href=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>)<br> 4. Re: Recent =
100M on BAT (David Masucci)<br><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message =
----------<br>From: Mark Bradakis <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@bradakis.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">mark@bradakis.com</a>><br>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Bcc: <br=
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 -0700<br>Subject: Re: =
[Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br>On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via =
Healeys wrote:<br>> Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I =
volunteered to take over<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> the registry, but =
after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> so came up and we =
decided that the price of admission was way too high<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> for something with =
little to no financial gain and a lot of work involved.<br><br>Try =
running Team Net for 30+ =
years!<br><br>mjb.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded =
message ----------<br>From: Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>><br>To: HealeyRick =
<<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: Michael Oritt =
<<a href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>>, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date:&nb=
sp;Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent =
100M on BAT<br><u></u><div>Rick,<br><br>Last I heard, the owner was =
working with BaT to present another listing for this car (or did it =
sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as having a replacement chassis =
and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have no issues with it; it is, =
essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) reduced price. The =
commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he knows what s/he got, =
and is happy with it, that's great.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><div>On =
12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob,<div><br></div><div> =
As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for the<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>Healey Marque<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>this 100M discussion =
has been really helpful and interesting. I think your comment " I =
was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide " =
raises a great question of what exactly is the 100M certificate =
certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on what needs to be =
presented to be certified. <a =
href=3D"https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf"; =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_20=
13.pdf </a> But it seems to me it mainly focuses on the =
body parts that it left the factory with. I find it interesting there's =
no necessity for pictures of the engine number. And even if all =
the body parts, carbs, and distributor aren't there, Bill says in the =
article "If some of these items are missing, let the Registry =
know. It normally does not prevent registration provided enough ID =
points are present." So my impression, which I'll try to verify =
with Bill, is the certification is focused on the question whether this =
is the car that left the factory that matches the BMIHT certificate =
saying it had a louvered hood and not so much on whether it still has =
all the original parts an M would have come with.</div><div> =
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>I think =
one of the benefits of the BaT comments for buyers (and probably not so =
much for sellers) is pointing out major deficiencies with an offering. =
Some buyer might have paid way more this car than it would be worth if =
not for the "savage" comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy =
Healeydays</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec =
16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>I think =
that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that =
aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br><br>How many times have you been asked =
what your Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've =
replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems =
genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; =
these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the =
number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. =
Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>=46rom the late, =
great Gary Anderson:<br><br><a =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" =
target=3D"_blank">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uplo=
ads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br><br><br><div>O=
n 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Some feel that since DMH knew he was =
going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever =
marketing ploy to get rid of what might otherwise have become a =
less-than-desirable inventory of late production 100's by =
outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade. If so it =
was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to =
produce what has ironically become a very special Healey second =
only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Best--Michael =
Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
<<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>The M =
was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extractor--as =
opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call =
that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an =
engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and =
Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br><br>I =
think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance =
at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as =
opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the =
modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that =
ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When =
customers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a =
kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on =
Monday?').<br><br>I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars =
command a significant price premium (hence why of the original, =
documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>bs<br><br><br><div>On=
12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because as =
someone mentioned there isn't that much to hanging the "modification " =
parts on any 100. <div dir=3D"auto">If the "M" designation involved =
significant performance modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, =
which could not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very =
special.<div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his =
"M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion. </div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">M</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. =
josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"=
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><pre =
id=3D"m_-4437042785009811673m_3035444886437018827m_1603492253125454553m_-4=
413793566936237617m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"text-align: left;"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">What makes a 100M?=20
Very good question and not easy to answer.
In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category =
is significantly higher than the normal 100,=20
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified =
100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and=20
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be =
such a major modification for me, as would a=20
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber =
carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a=20
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for =
the same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. =
It's a special model with a little more=20
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina =
BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: =
none;"> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;"> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;"> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px;">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">An: "HealeyRick" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>></div><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><div style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; =
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; =
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; =
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;">Note the =
Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what =
Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with =
aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I don't think =
either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more =
sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and parts on a =
BN1 (a BN2,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><em>maybe</em>). The main =
problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br><br><br><div>On =
12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote><div =
dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so =
bad it needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the =
100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the =
oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on =
the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even =
cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain =
Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an =
M? Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted =
with new chassis and still bring big money at =
auction. <div> </div><div>To me, what makes an M an M is the =
motor. If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal =
replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 =
with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor =
and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right =
serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The =
BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor =
caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? =
C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a =
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M =
cam in the lump!</div><div><div> </div><div>Happy =
Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec =
14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Excellent report, thank =
you.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I was one =
of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a =
BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only point out =
obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far as =
I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat =
disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting =
some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and =
didn't have the hand scribing like my car).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>The other thing =
that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice =
car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><em>should</em>be less than =
a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous =
owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you present it =
for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk =
alongside the page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><div>On 12/14/2023 =
8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div><blockquote><div style=3D"font-family:=
inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: =
transparent;"><div>If you were following it recently, you might =
find my observations interesting. So I went down to Michael's =
motor cars to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. =
Here is what I found.</div><div> </div><div>It has the BN1 inner =
fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame =
mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have =
a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being =
replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows =
non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount. </div><div> </div><div>What I found most interesting is =
that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took =
shining a light it different directions to just make out the slight =
evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able =
to reach inside the vent just below that area with my fingers and feel =
the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can =
tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes seem as =
they never existed. Along with that, where a BN2 would have the =
single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed =
into welded captive nuts on the firewall, you can see plain sheet =
screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay =
position. </div><div> </div><div>I also feel the engine tag is =
a repo because of the lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the =
numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end result. I took my repo =
engine tag along to compare, and they appeared identical in the =
stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that =
doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there =
could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove =
a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in power, =
and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power. </div><div> </div><div>The boot lid shows no evidence =
of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, and if you look =
closely you can see that the boot shows some previous age/life. I'd =
believe it to be original. I could not make out any evidence of the =
bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the =
underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I =
couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone =
else to decide. </div><div> </div><div>Mike had asked me if =
the cold air box was original, and I simply don't have that =
experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's =
original. It does indeed look to have some age, =
so?</div><div> </div><div>I feel at some point in this car's life =
someone went to some effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts =
were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that =
there was an attempt to fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is =
fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that the =
holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were erasing =
evidence of a BN1 chassis? </div><div> </div><div>With all =
that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car =
is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look =
good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. =
I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, =
so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the =
restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to shroud =
brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think =
winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an =
issue. </div></div><div> </div><div>The =
Millers<br> <br>"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an =
antique car is a test =
drive."</div></blockquote></div>__________________________________________=
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itt@gmail.com</a><br><br></blockquote></div></blockquote><br></div>_______=
________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net<span =
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>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <<a =
href=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <<a =
href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de"; =
target=3D"_blank">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>><br>Cc: <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date:&nb=
sp;Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent =
100M on BAT<br><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dear =
Josef:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Your comments =
are the same in the USA especially in Florida where there are large =
numbers of retired people. My good friend and President of our =
British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said that =
younger people want Japanese or European sports cars. It is the =
same for those who enjoy boating. Sailors today are 55 to 80 years =
old. I had to give away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition =
at our summer home on Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and =
comfort. I still have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta =
Gorda, Florida and will continue to sail in accordance with the =
agreement with my wife that I will not sail alone. <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Also, our =
British Car Club of SW Florida is very large and growing thanks to the =
efforts of Hermann who revived the club. He is a born salesman and =
a lover of old sports cars.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Bob =
Begani<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">67 =
BJ8<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div =
style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; =
border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; padding: 3pt =
0in 0in;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>josef-eckert--- via =
Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, December 16, 2023 =
1:15 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>; Michael Oritt <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M =
on BAT<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;">As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for =
Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed =
extremely.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">It's like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on =
motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and =
the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">A =
100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand.</span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past =
is almost extinct.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey =
here.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him =
either.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I =
saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met =
through friends.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">But back to the 100M.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with =
a LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le =
Mans.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is =
slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. =
Nobody actually pays that here.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>There is also non who would =
pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 =
BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough =
comfort.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">But younger people don't want these old cars at =
all.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from =
the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they =
know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also =
out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 =
which are definitely the better cars =
compared.</span></span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;">Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten =
pretty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekends =
that were offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former =
glance for a long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do =
work for the clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old =
and what is then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away =
from these events which are expensive, but not =
inviting.</span></span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"> </span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Josef Eckert</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Germany</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"> <u></u><u></u></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><br><br><br>------=
---- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: David Masucci <<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmasucci@charter.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">dmasucci@charter.net</a>><br>To: "<a =
href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de"; =
target=3D"_blank">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de"; =
target=3D"_blank">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>><br>Cc: Bob =
Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>, Michael Oritt <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>>, Ahealey help <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date:&nb=
sp;Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent =
100M on BAT<br><div>All of this is inevitable, and not a bad =
thing. Let=E2=80=99s just continue to enjoy what we can while we can. =
There will be other passions that will entice follow-on generations to =
enjoy memories from their =
youth. <div><br></div><div>Dave<br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via =
Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:</div><br><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;"><span lang=3D"en"><span><span>As far as I can =
see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and comparable =
vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>It's like the =
pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>They can no =
longer keep up with today's traffic and on motorways they are quite =
problematic due to the high traffic density and the many trucks that =
also recklessly swerve to overtake.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>A 100M and also =
a 100 are no longer in demand.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>The clientele =
that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost =
extinct.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>Hardly anyone =
has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>I'm 66 years =
old now and didn't know him either.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>I saw Geoff =
once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met through =
friends.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>But back to the =
100M.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>Hardly anyone =
here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a =
100M.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>All of these =
are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>If a genuine =
100M is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a =
comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that =
here.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>There is also non who would =
pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>But as I said, =
Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand =
because it offers just enough comfort.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>But younger =
people don't want these old cars at all.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>They are =
looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that =
also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from their youth. =
Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too =
expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely =
the better cars compared.<br></span></span></span></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"><span =
lang=3D"en"><span><span>Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten =
pretty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekends =
that were offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former =
glance for a long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do =
work for the clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old =
and what is then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away =
from these events which are expensive, but not =
inviting.</span></span></span></span></div><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">Josef =
Eckert</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:=
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: =
none;">Germany</span></div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;"> </p><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px;">Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">An: "Michael Oritt" <<a href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>></div><p style=3D"margin:=
0px;"> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;"> </p><div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; =
line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">I think =
that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that =
aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br><br>How many times have you been asked =
what your Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've =
replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems =
genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; =
these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the =
number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. =
Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>=46rom the late, =
great Gary Anderson:<br><br><a =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" =
target=3D"_blank">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uplo=
ads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br><br><br><div>O=
n 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:</div><blockquote><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, =
255);">Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a =
new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get =
rid of what might otherwise have become a =
less-than-desirable inventory of late production 100's by =
outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade. If so it =
was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to =
produce what has ironically become a very special Healey second =
only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"> </div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Best--Michael =
Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" =
dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>The M was rated at =
110HP--more if you got the optional branch extractor--as opposed to a =
stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call that =
significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an engine =
(the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff =
weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br><br>I think at =
least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance at the =
Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed =
to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications =
were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans =
in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers started =
asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a kit, then the =
complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on =
Monday?').<br><br>I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars =
command a significant price premium (hence why of the original, =
documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>bs<br><br><br><div>On=
12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div><blockquote><div =
dir=3D"auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned =
there isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any =
100. <div dir=3D"auto">If the "M" designation involved significant =
performance modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could =
not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.<div =
dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would =
not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion. </div><div =
dir=3D"auto"> </div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., =
Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><pre dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"text-align: left;"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">What makes a 100M? Very good =
question and not easy to answer. In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, =
especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal =
100, is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily =
modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and no longer an =
M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major =
modification for me, as would a conversion to disc brakes at the front =
or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no =
longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey =
100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding =
the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model =
with a little more horsepower, but not anything particularly special. =
Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany =
</span></pre><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: =
none;"> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;"> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;"> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px;">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">An: "HealeyRick" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>></div><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p><div style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;">Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' =
which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a =
'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, =
etc.).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I don't =
think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat =
more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and parts on =
a BN1 (a BN2,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><em>maybe</em>). The main =
problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br><br><br><div>On =
12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote><div =
dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so =
bad it needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the =
100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the =
oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on =
the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even =
cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain =
Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an =
M? Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted =
with new chassis and still bring big money at =
auction. <div> </div><div>To me, what makes an M an M is the =
motor. If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal =
replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 =
with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor =
and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right =
serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The =
BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor =
caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? =
C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a =
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M =
cam in the lump!</div><div><div> </div><div>Happy =
Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec =
14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Excellent report, thank =
you.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I was one =
of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a =
BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only point out =
obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far as =
I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat =
disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting =
some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and =
didn't have the hand scribing like my car).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>The other thing =
that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice =
car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><em>should</em><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>be less than a comparably =
restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or =
should have known about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a =
BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the =
page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and =
T Miller wrote:</div><blockquote><div style=3D"font-family: inherit; =
font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: =
transparent;"><div>If you were following it recently, you might =
find my observations interesting. So I went down to Michael's =
motor cars to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. =
Here is what I found.</div><div> </div><div>It has the BN1 inner =
fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame =
mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have =
a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being =
replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows =
non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount. </div><div> </div><div>What I found most interesting is =
that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took =
shining a light it different directions to just make out the slight =
evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able =
to reach inside the vent just below that area with my fingers and feel =
the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can =
tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes seem as =
they never existed. Along with that, where a BN2 would have the =
single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed =
into welded captive nuts on the firewall, you can see plain sheet =
screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay =
position. </div><div> </div><div>I also feel the engine tag is =
a repo because of the lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the =
numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end result. I took my repo =
engine tag along to compare, and they appeared identical in the =
stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that =
doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there =
could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove =
a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in power, =
and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power. </div><div> </div><div>The boot lid shows no evidence =
of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, and if you look =
closely you can see that the boot shows some previous age/life. I'd =
believe it to be original. I could not make out any evidence of the =
bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the =
underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I =
couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone =
else to decide. </div><div> </div><div>Mike had asked me if =
the cold air box was original, and I simply don't have that =
experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's =
original. It does indeed look to have some age, =
so?</div><div> </div><div>I feel at some point in this car's life =
someone went to some effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts =
were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that =
there was an attempt to fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is =
fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that the =
holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were erasing =
evidence of a BN1 chassis? </div><div> </div><div>With all =
that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car =
is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look =
good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. =
I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, =
so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the =
restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to shroud =
brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think =
winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an =
issue. </div></div><div> </div><div>The =
Millers<br> <br>"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an =
antique car is a test =
drive."</div></blockquote></div>__________________________________________=
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12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;">Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a><span style=3D"caret-color:=
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys"; style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;">Unsubscribe/Manage:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.co=
m" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.com<=
/a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=
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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
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