Re: [Healeys] Parts from UK BJ8

[Alan Seigrist via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>]

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Thanks for that Simon - this article basically says the same as I have.
Rotary vane has better oil flow at lower rpms, gear pump works better at
higher rpms.  So for racing the gear pump is the way to go, but for normal
driving around town and keeping the motor under 3,500 rpms for most of your
driving, the rotary vane produces more oil flow.

On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 11:31 PM Simon Lachlan via Healeys <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:

> I fitted the Welch =E2=80=9CHigh Capacity=E2=80=9D pump some years back. =
Gained some psi
> across the range. Only fitted because it turned up brand new and v.cheap =
on
> eBay.
>
> Anyhow, I dug up the attached which is rather long and rather above my
> technical skills or interest=E2=80=A6.I=E2=80=99d imagine it=E2=80=99s be=
en around the block a few
> times so most of you will have it filed away.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Bob
> Spidell
> *Sent:* 22 February 2023 14:08
> *To:* healeys@autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Parts from UK BJ8
>
>
>
> This was news to me (from Roger Moment's new book; 'engine' section):
>
> "I have found new gear-type pumps to have one gear a few thousandths of a=
n
> inch taller than the other, and neither with the proper clearance to the
> bottom cover plate. This required finding someone with a grinding table w=
ho
> could make the gears identical, and then also machine the bottom of the
> pump housing so that the proper end clearance to the cover plate would
> result." I would at least check this on a gear-type pump.
>
> The only knock on the vane-type pumps that I've aware of is that the
> resistance was so high it would cause the cam gear driving it to wear and
> eventually be stripped. I think this was addressed by adding an extra too=
th
> to the pump driveshaft driven gear, hence lowering the torque on the gear=
s.
> I have no supporting evidence offhand, but I recall reading this somewher=
e
> (now if I could just remember where I put my keys).
>
> FWIW, I have about 7K miles on the 'upgraded'--presumably
> rotary-type--pump from DWM in my BJ8 and my oil pressure is stable, and n=
o
> metal in the oil. I believe the gear-type pump's gears are made of sinter=
ed
> iron; which I recall from long ago caused problems in some aircraft pisto=
n
> engines--Lycomings* IIRC--and I've never really trusted them since (thoug=
h
> my Mustang GT with 475HP has a pump with sintered gears with no issues th=
at
> I know of, but aftermarket vendors offer ones with machined gears for
> boosted engines).
>
> Side note: When my dad was a factory rep for Ford back in the sixties, he
> said owners would bring their cars in because 'The oil pressure drops at
> idle.' Possibly one reason why manufacturers went to idiot lights, though=
 I
> suspect cost was the major factor.
>
>
> *
> https://www.knr-inc.com/shop-talk-articles.html?id=3D101:200110-lycoming-=
oil-pumps&catid=3D25
>
>
> On 2/21/2023 11:18 PM, Alan Seigrist via Healeys wrote:
>
> As I understand it, the rotary vane was much better for maintaining
> pressure at low rpms, which is good for a road car.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 2:18 PM Ricchardd Mayor <boyracer466@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> The rotary vane pump was used in the 100/6 - 26D - engines.  It caused
> many problems.  It is not suitable for any use, contrary to what someone
> may be trying to sell you.
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard Mayor
> boyracer466@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Feb 21, 2023, at 7:35 PM, Alan Seigrist <healey.nut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> As I understand it, the rotary vane pump is superior for road
> applications, gear pump superior for racing applications.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 11:32 AM Ricchardd Mayor <boyracer466@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Bob,  The brand name is =E2=80=9CCounty=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6.. not =E2=80=
=9CCountry=E2=80=9D.  Whatever brand you
> buy just be sure it is the gear style oil pump.
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard Mayor
> boyracer466@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Feb 21, 2023, at 6:49 PM, Alan Seigrist <healey.nut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Not sure why but Longstone Tyres in the UK has crazy good shipping rates.
> It's not the same with anyone else.
>
> Generally speaking when ordering parts from the UK, it seems to add about
> 30% to the total price.  I have had better luck with DHL or Royal Post
> shipping for reliability of delivery in the past... seems customs works i=
n
> concert with USPS & DHL (Deutsche Post) to protect USPS, so FedEx and UPS
> sometimes can get hung up in customs.  It may have improved, not sure....
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 3:31 AM <rfbegani@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have decided to replace my oil pump and my rear bumper.  I remember you
> all seem to say that Moss pumps are from country and are not satisfactory=
,
> and we should buy from the UK such as Dennis Welch.
>
>
>
> Also, have decided to replace my original real bumper because it is
> scratched and blackened in places.
>
>
>
> Also, as the pound is 1.21 to the dollar the parts from DM are almost =C2=
=BD
> price from Moss and others.  My experience with UK on buying Michelin Tir=
es
> was great because freight charges via HM Post is very inexpensive and
> direct to my door.  Is DM freight similar?
>
>
>
> Bob Begani
>
> 67 BJ8
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for that Simon - this article basically says the sa=
me as I have.=C2=A0 Rotary vane has better oil flow at lower rpms, gear pum=
p works better at higher rpms.=C2=A0 So for racing the gear pump is the way=
 to go, but for normal driving around town and keeping the motor under 3,50=
0 rpms for most of your driving, the rotary vane produces more oil flow.</d=
iv><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On =
Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 11:31 PM Simon Lachlan via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:healeys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v lang=3D"EN-GB"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I fitted the Welch =E2=
=80=9CHigh Capacity=E2=80=9D pump some years back. Gained some psi across t=
he range. Only fitted because it turned up brand new and v.cheap on eBay.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Anyhow, I dug up the at=
tached which is rather long and rather above my technical skills or interes=
t=E2=80=A6.I=E2=80=99d imagine it=E2=80=99s been around the block a few tim=
es so most of you will have it filed away.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Simon<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;bo=
rder-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);pad=
ding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</spa=
n></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@a=
utox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>&gt; <b>=
On Behalf Of </b>Bob Spidell<br><b>Sent:</b> 22 February 2023 14:08<br><b>T=
o:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys@=
autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Parts from UK BJ8<u></u=
><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">This was news to me =
(from Roger Moment&#39;s new book; &#39;engine&#39; section):<br><br>&quot;=
I have found new gear-type pumps to have one gear a few thousandths of an i=
nch taller than the other, and neither with the proper clearance to the bot=
tom cover plate. This required finding someone with a grinding table who co=
uld make the gears identical, and then also machine the bottom of the pump =
housing so that the proper end clearance to the cover plate would result.&q=
uot; I would at least check this on a gear-type pump.<br><br>The only knock=
 on the vane-type pumps that I&#39;ve aware of is that the resistance was s=
o high it would cause the cam gear driving it to wear and eventually be str=
ipped. I think this was addressed by adding an extra tooth to the pump driv=
eshaft driven gear, hence lowering the torque on the gears. I have no suppo=
rting evidence offhand, but I recall reading this somewhere (now if I could=
 just remember where I put my keys). <br><br>FWIW, I have about 7K miles on=
 the &#39;upgraded&#39;--presumably rotary-type--pump from DWM in my BJ8 an=
d my oil pressure is stable, and no metal in the oil. I believe the gear-ty=
pe pump&#39;s gears are made of sintered iron; which I recall from long ago=
 caused problems in some aircraft piston engines--Lycomings* IIRC--and I&#3=
9;ve never really trusted them since (though my Mustang GT with 475HP has a=
 pump with sintered gears with no issues that I know of, but aftermarket ve=
ndors offer ones with machined gears for boosted engines).<br><br>Side note=
: When my dad was a factory rep for Ford back in the sixties, he said owner=
s would bring their cars in because &#39;The oil pressure drops at idle.&#3=
9; Possibly one reason why manufacturers went to idiot lights, though I sus=
pect cost was the major factor.<br><br><br>* <a href=3D"https://www.knr-inc=
.com/shop-talk-articles.html?id=3D101:200110-lycoming-oil-pumps&amp;catid=
=3D25" target=3D"_blank">https://www.knr-inc.com/shop-talk-articles.html?id=
=3D101:200110-lycoming-oil-pumps&amp;catid=3D25</a><br><br><br><u></u><u></=
u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 2/21/2023 11:18 PM, Alan Seigrist via =
Healeys wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;m=
argin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">As I understand it, the rotar=
y vane was much better for maintaining pressure at low rpms, which is good =
for a road car.<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 2:18 PM=
 Ricchardd Mayor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_bl=
ank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquot=
e style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left=
:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margi=
n-right:0cm"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The rotary vane pump was used in t=
he 100/6 - 26D - engines.=C2=A0 It caused many problems.=C2=A0 It is not su=
itable for any use, contrary to what someone may be trying to sell you. =C2=
=A0 <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Richard=C2=A0Mayor<br><a href=3D"mai=
lto:boyracer466@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a><u></=
u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">On Feb 21, 2023, at 7:35 PM, Alan Seigrist &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healey=
.nut@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">healey.nut@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u=
><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As I understand it, the rotary vane pump is superior=
 for road applications, gear pump superior for racing applications. <u></u>=
<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 11:32 AM Ricchardd Mayor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:boyracer466@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-righ=
t:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">Bob, =C2=A0The brand name is =E2=80=9CCounty=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6.. not =
=E2=80=9CCountry=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 Whatever brand you buy just be sure it is =
the gear style oil pump.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Richard=
=C2=A0Mayor<br><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">b=
oyracer466@gmail.com</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><=
/u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:=
5pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 21, 2023, at 6:49 PM, Alan Seigrist=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">healey.nut@g=
mail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Not sure why but Longst=
one Tyres in the UK has crazy good shipping rates.=C2=A0 It&#39;s not the s=
ame with anyone else.<br><br>Generally speaking when ordering parts from th=
e UK, it seems to add about 30% to the total price.=C2=A0 I have had better=
 luck with DHL or Royal Post shipping for reliability of delivery in the=C2=
=A0past... seems customs works in concert=C2=A0with USPS &amp; DHL (Deutsch=
e=C2=A0Post) to protect USPS, so FedEx and UPS sometimes can get hung up in=
 customs.=C2=A0 It may have improved, not sure....<u></u><u></u></p></div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 3:31 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></d=
iv><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:non=
e;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-lef=
t:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I h=
ave decided to replace my oil pump and my rear bumper.=C2=A0 I remember you=
 all seem to say that Moss pumps are from country and are not satisfactory,=
 and we should buy from the UK such as Dennis Welch.=C2=A0 </span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Also, ha=
ve decided to replace my original real bumper because it is scratched and b=
lackened in places.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-famil=
y:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;fon=
t-family:Arial,sans-serif">Also, as the pound is 1.21 to the dollar the par=
ts from DM are almost =C2=BD price from Moss and others.=C2=A0 My experienc=
e with UK on buying Michelin Tires was great because freight charges via HM=
 Post is very inexpensive and direct to my door.=C2=A0 Is DM freight simila=
r?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-seri=
f">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif">Bob Begani</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fami=
ly:Arial,sans-serif">67 BJ8 </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_____=
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