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boundary="----=_Part_1936227_2044032270.1616150459256"
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Piston ring flutter is a hard to detect phenomenon that will allow a lot of=
pressure loss into the crankcase.
Rings that are too thin will tend to flutter due to less spring pressure. =
=C2=A0The higher the piston speeds as in the wet sleeve TR engine, the more=
likely flutter is to occur. =C2=A0
I'm not sure about the Spitfire engine (too lazy to do the math before coff=
ee) but if you choose thin rings such as those used in the Total Seal set u=
p, the more likely you are to get flutter. The Total Seal solution uses two=
half-height rings with the gap oriented 180 degrees from each other. =C2=
=A0IMHO this is asking for flutter.
Having said that, when they work they work well. We used them successfully =
in a 948 Sprite and a 1.8 liter Integra.
Phil Gott
-----Original Message-----
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
To: ralph hansen <quikrx@yahoo.com>; fot <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2021 5:05 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire 1300 Piston Rings
JE Pistons are owning Pro Seal piston rings and gaskets, and maybe one can =
buy JE Pistons fitted with this brand of rings. On the Pro Seal website, yo=
u can find information about the ring services that JE Pistons is offering.
PS :Total Seal is a misleading name : most of their rings are NOT gapless.M=
arcel.
Van: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
Aan: "Brad Eells" <tr4abrad@gmail.com>, "Enquiries Road, Track" <enquiries@=
roadandtrack.net.au>
Cc: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
Verzonden: Vrijdag 19 maart 2021 03:48:12
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Spitfire 1300 Piston Rings
I always ran Total Seal rings in my Pinto and Celica race engines, never h=
ad a failure=C2=A0
I also used special made teflon buttons to center the wrist pins, again, ne=
ver an issue from them - clips of any kind can and do fail (had 1 failure)
like so many things we try/do with our engines we all find things that work=
for us - usually they work for others but, sometimes not
remember the key, "any significantly advanced technology is totally indisti=
nguishable from magic"
Cheers all,Ralph
On Thursday, March 18, 2021, 09:36:45 PM CDT, Enquiries Road & Track vi=
a Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
if JE are making pistons, surely they will supply rings???
In general, ring & piston design has improved a lot in recent decades
in most cases, you will head for a nitrided steel top ring, a steel centre =
ring (possibly filled with something) and a 3-piece segmented oil ring
in many cases, they can now make a perfectly satisfactory top and second ri=
ng at or under 1mm in thickness. Generally, the thinner it is, the lower th=
e friction but really thin rings require super careful honing and bed-in
best practise is to not have any slots behind the oil ring, but rather=C2=
=A0a ring of small holes=C2=A0
some piston makers have all sorts of clever micro 'tricks" like anti-flutte=
r grooves they machine in the lands between the rings
Whomever supplies the rings will specify the final hone finish required
best practise is to use double "spiro-locks" to retain the gudgeon pin
TerryAustralia
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 9:26 AM Brad Eells via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wro=
te:
Hello Amici,
A discussion with my machine shop man led to some thoughts about piston rin=
g selection.
He recommended getting in touch with Total Seal. I of course took a look at=
their website to discover a mind boggling selection of ring types.
Can any of you share your ring choices?
I will be having JE Pistons make a custom set of forged pistons for me.
I am in need of ring thickness dimensions as well. Should this come from th=
e factory (GT6) pistons I currently have in the car?
Your thoughts are appreciated!
Brad EellsChino CA#72 FP 1969 Triumph Spitfire Mk3#35 DP 1962 Triumph TR419=
65 Triumph TR4A IRS...for the road!
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
dandtrack.net.au
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
com
=20
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
arcel@telenet.be
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
com
------=_Part_1936227_2044032270.1616150459256
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:b=
lack;"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;=
color:black;">Piston ring flutter is a hard to detect phenomenon that will =
allow a lot of pressure loss into the crankcase.</div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><br></div><div=
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black=
;">Rings that are too thin will tend to flutter due to less spring pressure=
. The higher the piston speeds as in the wet sleeve TR engine, the mo=
re likely flutter is to occur. </div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><br></div><div style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;">I'm not =
sure about the Spitfire engine (too lazy to do the math before coffee) but =
if you choose thin rings such as those used in the Total Seal set up, the m=
ore likely you are to get flutter. The Total Seal solution uses two half-he=
ight rings with the gap oriented 180 degrees from each other. IMHO th=
is is asking for flutter.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;">Having said that, wh=
en they work they work well. We used them successfully in a 948 Sprite and =
a 1.8 liter Integra.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;">Phil Gott<br><br><br>----=
-Original Message-----<br>From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <fot@autox=
.team.net><br>To: ralph hansen <quikrx@yahoo.com>; fot <fot@aut=
ox.team.net><br>Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2021 5:05 am<br>Subject: Re: [Fot] Sp=
itfire 1300 Piston Rings<br><br></div><div id=3D"yiv4817956017"><div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;co=
lor:#000000;"><div>JE Pistons are owning Pro Seal piston rings and gaskets,=
and maybe one can buy JE Pistons fitted with this brand of rings. On the P=
ro Seal website, you can find information about the ring services that JE P=
istons is offering.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>PS :Total Seal =
is a misleading name : most of their rings are NOT gapless.</div><div>Marce=
l.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><hr id=3D"yiv4817956017zwchr"><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv4817956017yqt9305980484" id=3D"yiv4817956017yqtfd50602"><div><b>V=
an: </b>"fot" <fot@autox.team.net><br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"Bra=
d Eells" <tr4abrad@gmail.com>, "Enquiries Road, Track" <enquiries@=
roadandtrack.net.au><br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc: </b>"fot" <fot@autox.te=
am.net><br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Vrijdag 19 maart 2021 03:48:=
12<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] Spitfire 1300 Piston Rings=
<br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><div><div clas=
s=3D"yiv4817956017yqt9305980484" id=3D"yiv4817956017yqtfd17380"><div class=
=3D"yiv4817956017ydp3e5e7d0dyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:'helveti=
ca neue' , 'helvetica' , 'arial' , sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I always ran Total Seal rings in my Pinto and Celi=
ca race engines, never had a failure </div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I also used special made teflon buttons to=
center the wrist pins, again, never an issue from them - clips of any kind=
can and do fail (had 1 failure)</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">like so many things we try/do with our engines we all=
find things that work for us - usually they work for others but, sometimes=
not</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">rememb=
er the key, "any significantly advanced technology is totally indistinguish=
able from magic"</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Cheers all,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Ralph</div><br clear=3D"none">
=20
</div><div class=3D"yiv4817956017ydpac21c6fdyahoo_quoted" id=3D"yiv=
4817956017ydpac21c6fdyahoo_quoted_7049381340">
<div style=3D"font-family:'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica' , 'ari=
al' , sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Thursday, March 18, 2021, 09:36:45 PM CDT, Enquiries=
Road & Track via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div><div id=3D"yiv4817956017ydpac21c6fdyiv2862446882"><div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">if JE are making pistons, surely they will supply rings??=
?<div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>In general, ring & piston design ha=
s improved a lot in recent decades</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=
in most cases, you will head for a nitrided steel top ring, a steel centre =
ring (possibly filled with something) and a 3-piece segmented oil ring</div=
><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>in many cases, they can now make a perf=
ectly satisfactory top and second ring at or under 1mm in thickness. Genera=
lly, the thinner it is, the lower the friction but really thin rings requir=
e super careful honing and bed-in</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>b=
est practise is to not have any slots behind the oil ring, but rather =
a ring of small holes </div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>some pi=
ston makers have all sorts of clever micro 'tricks" like anti-flutter groov=
es they machine in the lands between the rings</div><div><br clear=3D"none"=
></div><div>Whomever supplies the rings will specify the final hone finish =
required</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>best practise is to use do=
uble "spiro-locks" to retain the gudgeon pin</div><div><br clear=3D"none"><=
/div><div>Terry</div><div>Australia</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></di=
v><br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yiv4817956017ydpac21c6fdyiv2862446882gma=
il_quote"><div class=3D"yiv4817956017ydpac21c6fdyiv2862446882yqt5107703797"=
id=3D"yiv4817956017ydpac21c6fdyiv2862446882yqt84488"><div class=3D"yiv4817=
956017ydpac21c6fdyiv2862446882gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 =
at 9:26 AM Brad Eells via Fot <<a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@a=
utox.team.net" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
noreferrer noopener">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></=
div><blockquote class=3D"yiv4817956017ydpac21c6fdyiv2862446882gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 20=
4 );padding-left:1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello Amici,<div><br clear=3D"none"=
></div><div>A discussion with my machine shop man led to some thoughts abou=
t piston ring selection.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>He recomme=
nded getting in touch with Total Seal. I of course took a look at their web=
site to discover a mind boggling selection of ring types.</div><div><br cle=
ar=3D"none"></div><div>Can any of you share your ring choices?</div><div><b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><div>I will be having JE Pistons make a custom set o=
f forged pistons for me.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>I am in ne=
ed of ring thickness dimensions as well. Should this come from the factory =
(GT6) pistons I currently have in the car?</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></d=
iv><div>Your thoughts are appreciated!<br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><di=
v style=3D"font-size:12.8px;"><b><span color=3D"#000000" data-mce-style=3D"=
color: #000000;" style=3D"color: #000000;">Brad Eells</span></b></div><div =
style=3D"font-size:12.8px;"><b><span color=3D"#000000" data-mce-style=3D"co=
lor: #000000;" style=3D"color: #000000;">Chino CA</span></b></div><div styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.8px;"><b><span color=3D"#000000" data-mce-style=3D"color:=
#000000;" style=3D"color: #000000;">#72 FP 1969 Triumph Spitfire Mk3</span=
></b></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;"><b><span color=3D"#000000" data=
-mce-style=3D"color: #000000;" style=3D"color: #000000;">#35 DP 1962 Triump=
h TR4</span></b></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;"><b><span color=3D"#0=
00000" data-mce-style=3D"color: #000000;" style=3D"color: #000000;">1965 Tr=
iumph TR4A IRS...for the road!</span></b><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><di=
v style=3D"font-size:12.8px;"><b><span color=3D"#000000" data-mce-style=3D"=
color: #000000;" style=3D"color: #000000;"><img class=3D"yiv4817956017" wid=
th=3D"96" height=3D"94" src=3D"https://docs.google.com/uc?export=3Ddownload=
&id=3D1HyYLxa1_Lz_Q0kLM3GRJryNDgfOwZyUc&revid=3D0B9vVTDWaFCqFVmR6Q1=
FsMExZTHVLcHpja3BpSC9ucGcveHdJPQ"><br clear=3D"none"></span></b></div><div>=
<br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; href=3D"mailto:fot@=
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</blockquote></div></div>
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------=_Part_1936227_2044032270.1616150459256--
--===============8206356538816092267==
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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
--===============8206356538816092267==--
|