--===============1843278736627841888==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am probably not alone in having been at the track with a spare set of
pads in the parts box when I have run across these fitment problems on a
Saturday night getting ready for the next day.
Bob Kramer
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 12:24 AM Brad Eells via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
wrote:
> Fun part is that Porterfield sends you the metric Datsun 240Z pad for the
> 16P caliper that you then have to machine to fit the pin locations.
>
> Went round and round with them...they weren=E2=80=99t listening...
>
> Brad Eells
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered problems with
> Carbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me. The frictio=
n
> pad surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer edge of the rotor.
> I could not believe it. I sent them back. I took photos and video to
> document my discoveries with all these pads and I would happily share
> them. When I locate the Porterfield photo, I will share it. Of course
> Porterfield would correct this if I send them details of my findings,
> but... I cannot believe the total BS learning experience I have been fac=
ed
> with. I simply cannot believe that these companies ship these inferior
> products. Hawk has been the only company that has sent me the exact same
> product that fits every time.
>
> TOTAL BS.
>
> Dave H.
>
> On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott <vfracing@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulat=
e, work
> reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with
> squaring every two races.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < timmmurphh@gmail.com> <
> timmmurphh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the
> Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using. We used to get almost 4 or 5
> race weekends out of a set of pads. Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half r=
ace
> weekends. What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?
>
>
>
> Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound
> brake pads that we were using. Anyone have other suggestions? We like t=
he
> stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear =
is
> getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
>
>
>
> Tim and Ryan Murphy
>
> #317 TR4 BRG
>
>
>
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *DAVE HOGYE via Fo=
t
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM
> *To:* Phil Gott <vfracing@aol.com>; Phil Gott via Fot <fot@autox.team.net=
>;
> ralph hansen <quikrx@yahoo.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] squaring pads
>
>
>
> The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing
> plate the quicker this becomes a problem. I've measured .010-.012" tota=
l
> clearance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech
> pads. The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (we=
re
> definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory,
> right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by
> .035". The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot. Th=
is
> immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely. T=
he
> pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers. Not good.
> The Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface =
in
> a couple of weekends of racing. Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excus=
es
> and denials when I brought this to their attention.
>
> If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot get
> cocked as severely under hard braking. Squaring of pad surface may still
> be desirable at some point, but pay close attention between of the width =
of
> the backing plate and the caliper slot.
>
> I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory
> pads and the same dimension on every order. No variations. The Hawk pad=
s
> also have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut. Wider at
> the outer edge. This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduc=
es
> uneven wear.
>
> I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality
> control.
>
> As you apply the brakes, the piston extends. If the pad can move greatly
> within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the
> backing plate of the pad as it should. If the backing plate is not squar=
e,
> the pad will also rotate a little. Definitely not good.
>
> Beware,
>
> Dave H.
>
>
>
> On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to
> different surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly
> they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, th=
e greater the
> binding.
>
> Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good
> dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the frictio=
n
> material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
>
> Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do
> not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic
> irregularities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first
> session out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting ne=
w
> pads on the car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if
> you are bedding in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for
> temperature effects).
>
> Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in th=
e
> rotor surface.
>
> Phil Gott
>
> 114 TR4A
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < fot@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to
> make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces -
> in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage,
> these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together,
> you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to t=
he
> angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the al=
l
> important heat sink that makes brakes work....
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot =
<
> fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks!
>
> -Marhieu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>
>
>
--0000000000005e130f058e806afe
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">I am probably not alone in having been at the track with a=
spare set of pads in the parts box when I have run across these fitment pr=
oblems on a Saturday night getting ready for the next day.<div><br clear=3D=
"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gma=
il_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Kramer</div></div></div><br></div></div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu=
, Jul 25, 2019 at 12:24 AM Brad Eells via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@aut=
ox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Fun part is that Porterf=
ield sends you the metric Datsun 240Z pad for the 16P caliper that you then=
have to machine to fit the pin locations.<div><br></div><div>Went round an=
d round with them...they weren=E2=80=99t listening...<br><br><div id=3D"gma=
il-m_9170696528488436AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Brad Eells<div>Sent fr=
om my iPhone</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, D=
AVE HOGYE via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div dir=3D"ltr">
=20
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(51,51,51)">I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered probl=
ems with Carbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me.=C2=A0=
The friction pad surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over t=
he outer edge of the rotor.=C2=A0 I could not believe it.=C2=A0 I sent them=
back.=C2=A0 I took photos and video to document my discoveries with all th=
ese pads and I would happily share them.=C2=A0 When I locate the Porterfiel=
d photo, I will share it.=C2=A0 Of course Porterfield would correct this if=
I send them details of my findings, but...=C2=A0 I cannot believe the tota=
l BS learning experience I have been faced with.=C2=A0 I simply cannot beli=
eve that these companies ship these inferior products.=C2=A0 Hawk has been =
the only company that has sent me the exact same product that fits every ti=
me.</p><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(51,51,51)">TOTAL BS.</p><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helv=
etica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Dave H.</p><blockquote type=3D"=
cite">On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott <<a href=3D"mailto:vfracing@=
aol.com" target=3D"_blank">vfracing@aol.com</a>> wrote: <br> <br>I=E2=80=
=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, work r=
easonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with squ=
aring every two races. <br> <br><div id=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81=
da09d-AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < <a href=3D"mailto:timmmurphh@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> < <a href=3D"mail=
to:timmmurphh@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> wro=
te: <br> <br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D=
"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-WordSection1"><p class=3D"gmail-m_91=
70696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe that explains the high wear ra=
te that we are seeing lately on the Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are us=
ing.=C2=A0 We used to get almost 4 or 5 race weekends out of a set of pads.=
=C2=A0 Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half race weekends.=C2=A0 What is the =
wear rate for others that are using this pad?</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_917069=
6528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528=
488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-=
169E.560 Blue/9012 compound brake pads that we were using.=C2=A0 Anyone hav=
e other suggestions?=C2=A0 We like the stopping power, fast warm up and fee=
l of the Carbotech pads but the wear is getting a little pricey at about $2=
00 a set.</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">=
=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Tim =
and Ryan Murphy</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNor=
mal">#317 TR4 BRG</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoN=
ormal">=C2=A0</p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;bo=
rder-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><=
p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><strong>From:</=
strong> Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_bl=
ank">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>DAVE =
HOGYE via Fot<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM<br><=
strong>To:</strong> Phil Gott <<a href=3D"mailto:vfracing@aol.com"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">vfracing@aol.com</a>>; Phil Gott via Fot <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>>; ralph=
hansen <<a href=3D"mailto:quikrx@yahoo.com"; target=3D"_blank">quikrx@ya=
hoo.com</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Fot] squaring pads</p></d=
iv></div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">=C2=
=A0</p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(51,51,51)">The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and t=
he pad backing plate the quicker this becomes a problem.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I'=
ve measured .010-.012" total clearance on an NOS street pad and as muc=
h as .070" on a set of Carbotech pads.=C2=A0 The edges of the Carbotec=
h backing plates looked to have been, (were definitely), ground off on and =
belt sander or grinder from the factory, right down to the edge of the fric=
tion pad and they were out of square by .035".=C2=A0 The side of the p=
ad was making contact with the caliper slot.=C2=A0 This immediately caused =
problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.=C2=A0 The pistons even =
left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.=C2=A0 Not good.=C2=A0 The =
Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface i=
n a couple of weekends of racing.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, Carbotech made many =
excuses and denials when I brought this to their attention.=C2=A0=C2=A0 </s=
pan></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;c=
olor:rgb(51,51,51)">If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the=
piston cannot get cocked as severely under hard braking.=C2=A0 Squaring of=
pad surface may still be desirable at some point, but pay close attention =
between of the width of the backing plate and the caliper slot.=C2=A0=C2=A0=
</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(51,51,51)">I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a c=
learance as factory pads and the same dimension on every order.=C2=A0 No va=
riations.=C2=A0 The Hawk pads also have the same shape as factory pads, mor=
e like a pie cut.=C2=A0 Wider at the outer edge.=C2=A0 This helps compensat=
es for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven wear.=C2=A0 </span></p><p><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51=
,51)">I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their qual=
ity control. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvet=
ica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">As you apply the brakes, the piston ext=
ends.=C2=A0 If the pad can move greatly within the caliper slot, the piston=
with take the side load, not the backing plate of the pad as it should.=C2=
=A0 If the backing plate is not square, the pad will also rotate a little.=
=C2=A0 Definitely not good. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;fon=
t-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Beware, </span></p><p><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,5=
1,51)">Dave H. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helv=
etica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"> =C2=A0 </span></p><blockquote><p cla=
ss=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">On July 21, 2019 at =
12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=
=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: <br><br>The pads wear unevenl=
y both radially and a bit circumferentially due to different surface speeds=
and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D=
in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater the binding.=C2=A0<=
/p><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Using =
some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good dust co=
llector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction materia=
l parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.</p></div><div><p class=
=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Yes, this does change =
the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do not change rotors as th=
ey are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irregularities between the t=
wo quickly get dealt with during the first session out after squaring the p=
ads. This would be the same as putting new pads on the car with the old rot=
ors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are bedding in new brakes, whi=
ch to some extent you are (except for temperature effects).</p></div><div><=
p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Different from =
a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in the rotor surface.<=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">=
Phil Gott</p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">114 TR4A</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170=
696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p><div><p class=
=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom=
:12pt"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < <a href=
=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>>=
wrote:</p></div><blockquote><div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436=
ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetic=
a,sans-serif">=C2=A0 </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_917069652848=
8436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helv=
etica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_91706965=
28488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
Helvetica,sans-serif">not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the ro=
tors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unma=
tched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a sligh=
t advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wea=
r together, you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contac=
t due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose m=
ass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work.... </span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> =C2=A0 </span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 </span=
></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(38,40,42)">On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huo=
vinen via Fot < <a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">=
fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m=
_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> =C2=A0 </span></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"=
> =C2=A0 </span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">=C2=A0 </span></p><p><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Sq=
uaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks! </=
span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;=
color:rgb(38,40,42)">-Marhieu </span></p><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_917069652=
8488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:H=
elvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">=C2=A0 </span></p></div><p class=
=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom=
:12pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________ <br><a href=
=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox=
.team.net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; rel=3D"noopener=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.=
net/archive" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve </a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; rel=3D"noopener" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: =
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com"; rel=
=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/q=
uikrx@yahoo.com</a> <br><br> </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blo=
ckquote><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________=
<br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.=
net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/d=
onate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archi=
ve: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com</a>=
<br><br></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170=
696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-default-style"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font=
-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br>=C2=A0 </span></p><bl=
ockquote><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________ <br=
><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net=
</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/dona=
te.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive:=
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a h=
ref=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@comcast.net"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@comcast.net<=
/a> <br><br></p></blockquote><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da=
09d-default-style"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br>=C2=A0 </span></p></div></div></blockquote>=
</blockquote><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-se=
rif;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436default-style"><b=
r>=C2=A0</p>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>______=
_________________________________________</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto=
:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a></span><br><sp=
an></span><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank"=
>http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.n=
et/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"=
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pi=
permail/fot</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad@gmail.com</a></span><br><span><=
/span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div>_________________=
______________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
t/rkramer56@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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