Will writes...
{A quick question. Two of us here (actually three if you include my better
{half) are getting increasingly interested in the Jag MkII and are curious
{about going prices.
I tend to think of Jag MkII prices as being similar to Jag XJ-6 prices:
$0-$4K buys you trouble,
$5K-$8K gets you a daily driver that you may need to work on,
$10K-$15K puts a very nice piece of hardware in your garage.
Below are some excerpts from when I was looking at my Daimler, most of
it applies to Jag MkII's (there are two GIFs of it on
triumph.cs.utah.edu/pub/sol/Images/buja*.gif).
I bought trouble since the Daimler turned out to be rustier than I first
thought. One of these days I'll get around to welding some new
suspension supports in. Either that or find a MkII body in a barn
somewhere...
The bottom line is watch out for rust and have a Jag mechanic put it up
on a lift and check it out for you before buying it.
/\ Lawrence Buja Climate and Global Dynamics Division
\_][ southern@ncar.ucar.edu National Center for Atmospheric Research
\_________________________Boulder,_Colorado___80307-3000__________
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-From: turner@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Mark Turner)
-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 91 19:18:03 EST
-Subject: Re: Daimler/Jag MkII Info
On 12-Dec-91 southern@neit.cgd.ucar.EDU (Lawrence Buja) writes:
>I need some help from the Jaguar MK II folks.
>
>This weekend I may be looking at a '66 Daimler that's for sale
>here in Boulder. The ad reads:
>
>'66 Daimler looks like a Mark II,
>2.5L eng V-8 69K mi. $3300
>
>The price doesn't sound out of line if it's in good shape. But I'd
>like to find out what to look out for. I assume that body rust is
>a major item, since it's of monocoque (sp?) construction. Brakes?
>Engine? Trans? Parts availability? Any other gotchas?
By a curious coincidence I just picked up a copy of the December,
1991 issue of the British magazine, "Your Classic" which has a
long article on MkII's and Daimlers. The article reads:
"But if the MkII is one of the most charismatic cars Jaguar has
ever made, it is also one of the most rust prone. It was only the
company's second monocoque after the 1955 MkI and they'd learned
little in those five years about how to protect stressed mild
steel and open structural box sections against rust. A tired,
tarted MkII is a welder's nightmare."
...
"Assuming the car looks generally tidy outwardly the first thing
to check on the MkII is the rear seat area. If the vendor is
confident in his charge he won't mind if you remove the rear seat
cushion. Check for corrosion where the rear seat meets the floor
and along the edge of the pan and with the seat removed you can
see any problems within the rear inner wheel arches too.
Remember, this is a crucial area of strength which spring hangers
- and thus the axle itself - rely on for location."
They have a diagram showing other rust problems to watch out for:
1. Protruding wing-top side lights tend to rust.
2. Watch seam at front wheel arch for rot.
3. Rubber window seals collect water with dire results.
4. Inner rear arches are vulnerable.
5. Spats rust through from inside. Little protection.
6. Blocked drain holes rot doors from the inside.
7. Bottom of A-post susceptible.
8. Front floor pan vulnerable to kicked up dirt.
9. Body panels go at edges; never well protected.
Most of the mechanical stuff seems to concentrate on the Jaguars
rather than the Daimlers. However there is a sidebar about the
Daimler. It says "When Jaguar bought Daimler it inherited a duff
range of cars but an excellent pair of engines - the Edward
Turner (no relation - M.T.) designed 2.5 and 4.5 litre V8's. ...
Jaguar saw potential in the 2.5 litre unit and fitted it in an old
MkI that was lying around the factory."
"It was a combination that worked beautifully and Jaguar found
themselves with a car that handled rather better than the MkII
(less weight over the front wheels equals less understeer) and
was faster - considerably - than the MkII 2.4"
Hope this helps. It sounds like a neat car. Let us know what
happens.
Mark Turner
University of Pennsylvania
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-From: Shel Hall <76701.103@CompuServe.COM>
-Date: 14 Dec 91 11:33:54 EST
-Subject: Re: Daimler 2.5L Saloons
On 12-Dec-91 southern@neit.cgd.ucar.EDU (Lawrence Buja) writes about
his discovering a 2.5 litre Daimler for sale....
>I need some help from the Jaguar MK II folks.
I barely qualify; I have friends who run a Jaguar-only garage here
in Atlanta, and another friend who has a 3.8 Mk II, and I've
actually seen an example of the Daimler model in question....
>This weekend I may be looking at a '66 Daimler that's for sale
>here in Boulder. The ad reads:
>
>'66 Daimler looks like a Mark II,
>2.5L eng V-8 69K mi. $3300
>
>The price doesn't sound out of line if it's in good shape.
Actually, it sounds like a steal to me; really clean, original, low
mileage Mk IIs that haven't been buggered by ham-fisted mechanics are
usually priced at $8,000 and up around here.
>But I'd like to find out what to look out for.
(1) Rust never sleeps.
(2) People who don't understand the original design may have tried
to "improve" things, especially the wiring, the ignition system,
the carburettors and possibly other things. These are unlikely
to work any better than the original, and you won't be able to
find them in any manual.
(3) Anything resembling engine problems. The cooling systems on all
the older Jaguars was very marginal, and damage from overheating
should be suspected. Assume guilt unless proven innocent. Run
a compression test, and look closely at the oil and coolant _after_
a nice long test drive. I'm not aware of any particular weak
points in this engine; in fact, I've never seen one opened up.
(4) The same engine was used in the Daimler Dart, a/k/a/ SP-250, and
that car was infamous, in its day, for short clutch life.
(5) In the SP-250 it had 2 big SU carbs on a cross-over manifold; I
don't know what they used in the sedan.
(6) Veneer peeling. It doesn't look like it would be a big deal to
fix, but it is quite tricky to do. The veneer was glued to the
curved surfaces in a type of form-fitting pneumatic press, and
getting any loose veneer stuck back correctly is very difficult.
They used real varnish back then, or something very much like it,
and it didn't take kindly to direct sun. Once the varnish burned
off, dampness attacked the glue, and the veneer fell off. Mk.2
re-wood kits have been advertised in Hemmings, but the copy I have
at hand doesn't have an ad.
(7) The rear fender skirts. Be sure they are there and they work.
>I assume that body rust is a major item ...
See #1, above. However, the steel used in the body was pretty heavy,
and repair of minor rust damage is no big deal (says my buddy with the
rusty, but fast, Mk.II.)
Do pay special attention to the suspension mounting points and the
rocker panels, though, as well as around the windshield and along the
bottom of the doorskins.
>Brakes?
Nothing special as far as I know. The car has rather modest power, so
the Mk.II brakes, even the 2.4 version, should be OK.
>Engine?
See above. The number of these cars in the US is very small, even if
you count the SP-250. I'm told any Jaguar specialist can order the
parts, but I'd expect the "Daimler" parts would be harder to get than
the "Jaguar" parts. My understanding is that the engine is the only
major difference from the Mk.II.
>Trans?
Depends on the trans they used. Could be the Jaguar 'box or the older
Moss 'box, with or without OD, or the automatic with or without the
"intermediate speed hold" feature. The automatics were all US units, I
think, and I understand the manual 'boxes are basically interchangable.
If it's a manual, keep in mind the comments on the SP-250 clutch,
above, as I don't know if the sedan got the same unit.
>Parts availability?
The Jaguar parts are very available, if somewhat expensive, and there
are enough Daimlers in England that I bet most other stuff is
available. I'd be sure anything on the as-bought gig-list is available
before I gave the man the money, as his discovery of a fault whose
rectification requires an unobtainable part may be the reason for sale.
I've just found a chap with a set of manuals for the car, as well as a
set of Mk.II manuals, and I'll have an opportunity to compare them
later today; if I find anything mentionable, I'll relay it ASAP.
>Any other gotchas?
An 'E' Type will only let you carry one nice young blondes; the Daimler
will let you carry her and two spares. And you can't get a nice 'E'
Type for $3,300 either.
Buy it and have fun.
-Shel
Atlanta, Georgia
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-From: Wayne Angevine <angevine@badger.Colorado.EDU>
-Subject: Lawrence's Daimler
-Date: 26 Dec 91 11:11:24
What a car! Lawrence was nice enough to call me to go out and pick
up the Daimler last Saturday. I assumed that he'd put kids and all
in the Daimler and I'd drive the Subaru home, but I guess he didn't
want to rerig the car seats. What I didn't remember was that the
Daimler was . . .
RHD!
Actually, it was no big deal, except it was more fun than I've had
in a long time. There's rather a lot of car over on your left side
when sitting in the driver's seat, so I was never tempted to forget
where I was sitting and slide over to the left of the lane.
I had never driven a proper British saloon, and I loved it. All
that wonderful wood, nice gauges, a buch of toggle switches, and
some very nice leather seats. The driving position was among the
most comfortable I've ever experienced. The seat supports the
back and legs nicely and fit me perfectly (I guess I'm about standard
English size - I'd fit in a Europa or Seven too.) The ride was
excellent but the handling was impressive for such a large car.
The little V8 got me up to highway speed faster than I expected,
although it wasn't stunning off the line with the automatic.
I think one of those with the Jaguar six and a manual transmission
would be a hell of a tourer. If I needed a sedan...
While I'm on the subject, what is the status of Mk2s these days?
How outrageous are they (pricewise, that is) ? Were they sold in
this country with manual or only automatic trans? Is there a good
reference? The Classic Motorbooks catalog had several books listed
which covered this car, too many to buy them all.
Wayne (cars moved and advertised :-)) Angevine
University of Colorado
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-From: Shel Hall <76701.103@CompuServe.COM>
-Date: 27 Dec 91 20:38:55 EST
-Subject: The Net's New Daimler
Folks-
On Thu, 26 Dec 91, at 09:01:34 Wayne Angevine
<angevine@badger.Colorado.EDU> writes a long and complimentary note
about Lawrence's new old Daimler, and ends up asking ...
>>> While I'm on the subject, what is the status of Mk2s these days?<<<
What do you want? You can have a new one, if you'd like. A firm in
England is "remanufacturing" them. I saw one today, and it was
astounding. The paint under the Wilton trunk mat was as perfect as it
was on the outside of the car, the leather was wonderful, the wood was
far beyond merely perfect, and it was a general knockout.
It also had real steering gear (rack and pinion instead of the original
recirculating ball), _integrated_ air conditioning, and a host of other
improvements. Everything was built and finished at least as well at
the cars were when they were new.
>>> How outrageous are they (pricewise, that is)? <<<
The remanufactured ones are $70,000.
Nice, used, 3.8 Mk.2s go for $6,000-8,000 around here, but a show-
winning restoration will be much more. And, of course, you can have a
rusted-out barn rat for much less.
I assume you know that the same body also got 2.4 and 3.4 liter
engines, and there was an attempt at a "cheap" car, called a "340"; it
was a 3.4 Mk.2 with a plastic interior.
If Lawrence's Daimler is fairly nice, he got an _outstanding_ deal by
Atlanta standards.
>>> Were they sold in this country with manual or only automatic
trans? <<<
The Jaguars got both, and the transmissions fitted pretty much
paralleled the transmissions fitted to the 'E' Types of the same years;
i.e. the later manual transmissions were all-synchro.
I talked to my Jaguar man today, and he says the manual transmission
Daimler SP-250 (a/k/a Dart) sports car got a Triumph Isis gearbox, and
he assumes the sedan got that, too, though he's never seen a manual
tranny in one. The Isis gearbox (he says) is very much like a TR-3
unit, but with different ratios and a different input shaft.
He also said that the clutch in those is OK (contrary to my
recollection and earlier posting on the subject) it's the gearbox that
was a bit of a problem; the non-synchro low couldn't take too many ham-
fisted engagements.
He further says that the automatic could be a "POS three-band Borg
Warner" or the later "Model 8" ... he says the Model 8 is OK but the
"three-band" was known to leak on the show-room floor. He's worked on
Jags since 1960 or so, by the way.
I don't know about the Daimler, but the Mk.2 had a dashboard switch
that would hold the automatic in 2nd gear (out of 3); if you saw
something labelled "intermediate speed hold" that was it.
Since the Daimler was (and still is) Jaguar's "up-market" badge, it may
be that the Daimler only came with the automatic, but I am just
speculating here ...
>>>Is there a good reference? The Classic Motorbooks catalog had
several books listed which covered this car, too many to buy them
all.<<<
I don't have any suggestions here, except to say that good books, and
the knowledge they contain, are much cheaper than mistakes on old cars.
-Shel
Atlanta, Georgia....
|