----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Cox" <charles@coastalbay.com>
To: <rocky@tri.net>
Cc: <dave2020@mindspring.com>; <jlieberman@sport.rr.com>; <dave@wcsllc.net>;
<fpspitfire37@msn.com>; "Autox" <autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:53 AM
Subject: Fw: minimum weight requirement
> > Few remember that once upon a time -- for one year only (1982) -- we DID
> weigh with driver.
> >
> > This came in shortly after road racing went to weighing with driver.
> >
> > We discovered a key difference. Road racing typically has one driver per
car
> per event. We often have two, sometimes more. Frequently the co-drivers
are
> him/her -- big and little.
>
> >>>Rocky, I would argue that although it is a difference, it shouldn't
have
> ever been a difference that justifies weighing the car without driver.
There
> are many other forms of motorsport that have more than one driver and they
do
> fine. We shouldn't write the rules to cater to the minority and
particularly
> in light of the ability of the competitor to deal with the difference,
which
> can be done by weighing the car with driver but can't be solved weighing
the
> car without driver.<<<
First of all, of the "other forms" you speak of most tend to be things like
enduro race series that have two drivers. In such cases, with hired guns
behind the wheel (not a huband & wife out for a fun afternoon) they work a
lot more to matching the drivers -- not only similar weight, but also
height, reach, etc. The difference is easily done, usually, with a very
simple (and lightweight) seat insert. They have a 2-car, 4-driver team, the
tall guys go in one car, the short guys in the other, etc. At this
grassroots level, such considerations are not practical.
Second, we SHOULD write rules to cater to the minority -- when the minority
here is 2-driver cars -- because of a number of reasons. First that old
"tyrrany of the majority" thing, we don't screw the minority element just
because we can. Second, it's not a popular vote issue anyway. So, third,
what we do is make the event convenient for the greater number, and if we
can make it work for only 60% of the drivers or we can make it work for
100%, let's go for the 100%. Fourth, not having to worry about
weight-difference issues between co-driver cars means a lot less work, which
consumes time and takes away from the efficiency of the overall event and
thus affects everyone. Now in this, I am not arguing against weighing with
drivers ... I am saying the majority-rule argument is bogus. Other
arguments, not addressed here, may have far more veracity.
> > Best example of the problem I remember was a DP husband/wife. When she
> drove, they had to put 100 pounds of ballast in the car. They did it by
having
> her sit on a 50-pound bag of kitty litter and putting another behind her,
> replacing the "midget shim" they'd previously used for her. And then,
just to
> compound things, that car rolled at the '82 Nationals. Fortunately
> > with him in it (and no injury), but the "what-if" arose had she'd been
in it
> with that 100 pounds of kitty litter part of the equation -- next year the
> with-driver rule was gone.
>
> >>>Where were the scrutineers or tech people when this was done? This
> certainly couldn't be the reason for the change, is it? Again this kind
of
> problem is easily solved if the events and rule book are written
properly.<<<
When was the last time you ever saw a car weighed as part of the tech
inspection? You could roll it through tech 500 pounds underweight, and all
they want to see is if you have a proper helmet, belts, and the throttle
won't hang up or the wheels won't fall off. Competition elements -- such as
weight -- are post-event checks. Pre-event tech doesn't give a damn how you
intend to make weight. Its prime concern is safety, not legality. If they
see ballast in your car, they car not how much it is, but do care how it is
fastened.
Was the rollo the reason for the change? I don't know the inner workings of
the SEB then, but I would suspect it served as a good illustration of the
problem caused by the rule. And then it was just easier to revert to the
former rule.
That was also 20 years ago. Could a good with-driver rule be written today?
Of course it could. Is it wanted or needed? That may be the key to whether
it would be considered again. Present arguments why it is needed and make
your case to the SEB.
Remember, making your case to Team.Net changes nothing, but it may give you
valuable feedback you can incorporate into your SEB proposal. Or it might
even change your mind as to whether to make a proposal at all.
> >>>Charles Cox (I am opposed to weighing without driver, but doesn't
affect my
> class either way)<<<
--Rocky Entriken
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