OK.. so to get this all down correctly (as I'm about to do an engine &
clutch job myself)...
>From what I've read here, we need an "early MGB" clutch cover (pressure
plate)... Moss Motors lists two - they don't not seem to differentiate
between early or late, but only list one cover, with a second listed as a
'competition' cover:
190-080 -- $76.30 -- PRESSURE PLATE, new
190-810 -- $89.95 -- PRESSURE PLATE, heavy duty/competition
Their illustration shows a carbon bush type throwout bearing, so I suspect
either cover will do??
http://www.mossmotors.com/cgi-bin/db2www/mossmotors/MossUSA/Shop/ViewProducts.mac/report?T=36265&ModelID=31000&PlateID=2481
As for the cluch disc (driven plate), which specific Volvo model are we
talking... is it for the B18 motors (122, P1800, etc)? Also, I haven't had
my Series V apart for ages (+15 years!) so I don't recall if I have the
coarse or fine spline input shaft on my OD tranny... is the Volvo plate
coarse or fine?
Part numbers would be helpful if anyone has them!
Thanks to all -
Kevin
B395015623
----Original Message Follows----
From: Jarrid Gross <JGross@econolite.com>
Reply-To: Jarrid Gross <JGross@econolite.com>
To: Louis & Laila <bwana@c2i2.com>, Alkon <alkon@bigpond.com.au>, Alpine
list <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: RE: VOLVO Clutch
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:14:53 -0800
Lou and piners,
I had a 7.5 inch clutch (brand new) in a 1725 with stock mechanics, but
running fuel injection. The added torque was all it needed to begin
slipping the clutch at WOT. When the clutch begins to slip on its own, the
result is a snowball effect, where the clutch gets hotter, slips a tad more,
gets hotter slips a tad more, until you are puting all your engine power
into smoke and heat.
Why Rootes used that tiny clutch on the 1725 is beyond me. I use the 8 or 8
1/2 inch now, but it is soooo heavy.
Jarrid
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-alpines@autox.team.net
[mailto:owner-alpines@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Louis & Laila
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:34 AM
To: Alkon; Alpine list
Subject: Re: VOLVO Clutch
Keith,
You are correct in that weight of the car affects the clutch life. It is
equal with that of the torque of the engine. The coeifficent of friction,
caused by the springs in the clutch and the "stickiness" of the disc, resist
either the torque of the engine, or the weight of the car, which acts as
torque through the drive line.
The series 5 style clutch will slip when there is a great deal of torque
from the engine. This slip translates into reduced performance, and
increased wear. This has been proven by many people who race Alpines in the
USA.
It might also be noted that Rootes went to a different clutch for the H120
and Holbay upgrades.
I will use the series 5 style clutch when I can because I have lots (Lots!)
of them. I wouldn't consider them for any performance application.
Lou
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alkon" <alkon@bigpond.com.au>
To: "Alpine list" <alpines@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 3:17 AM
Subject: Re: VOLVO Clutch
The load on the clutch is not only a factor of horsepower. The weight of the
vehicle has a large effect on clutch life. We used a small Ford zephyr
clutch behind a high performance 283 Chev in a Mk 3 Zephyr driving through
the original Ford four speed gearbox. This set up worked ok in the
lightweight Zephyr but the same clutch and gearbox would not have survived
if installed behind the same engine in a full size Chev.
The Alpine is a small lightweight vehicle so I would expect clutch life to
be sufficient to last untill the engine needed attention. I drove a 3.4
Jaguar with manual box and quickly learned that slipping the clutch was a
big "NO NO". The magic smoke escaped as quickly as foward propulsion ceased
:-). Jag drivers manual says " for best acceleration off the line use about
2000rpm, allow cluch to fully engage before flooring it" Slipping the clutch
on normal changes is clutch abuse and does not improve performance. In fact
driving the Jag taught me to allow all the bits of clutch/gearbox etc to
work at their own pace. Fast gear changes never happened with the Jag (Moss)
gearbox. A pause in neutral between gears always helped. The same technique
in my 55 Californian means silent gearchanges occur, and gearbox bits don't
fall in the bottom of the box :-))
Australian car racing involves great races like Bathurst where "hard"
drivers go quickly but often never finish because they break something.
Rootes Australia entered the Humble Minx (badged as Sunbeam ) in the great
race. It finished and put up lap times that I feel were nothing short of
amazing considering that this was a stock unmodified sedan. I personally
have learned the hard way about vehicle abuse. If it is broken I get to walk
:-) so coaxing maximum performance without breaking anything has become
second nature to me.
The point that these Volvo parts are more readily available is a good one
and adaptation of these parts should not be difficult, but to say that the
substitution is needed because the original parts cannot take the power is
not suffucient reason for me to make this change. In Australia I would
simply adapt Holdem ( GM) parts as they are cheaply available where Volvo
parts cost a premium in Australia.
If he Rootes engine drivetrain is not holding together then it was not
assembled correctly. I have rebuilt motors in my previous Hillmans and
pushed them full throttle for up to 100miles without failures. We are
talking about sitting on 6 -7000rpm for 20 miles at a stretch. To the
extent the exhaust piping becomes more than red hot.
I have gone on a bit here but the point I am trying to make is that the
Standard Alpine drive train is more than capable of handling any amount of
enthusiastic street use and a fair amount of classic racing use as well.
Keith
55 Californian
56 Minx
68 Hunter
---- Original Message -----
From: <ellis838@concentric.net>
To: <alpines@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: VOLVO Clutch
The MGB cover and Volvo plate works well is cheaper and easier to get, I
also think the quality of the MG/Volvo parts is better. Sorting the
combination of pivot block and release arm is the only difficult part. The 7
inch Rootes plate seems to like to spit the springs out and the plates I
have bought look like they were rebuilt in the back yard in grandpas spare
time. I figure my 1725 is good for 130+hp and with the 205 tires I am not
sure the stock 7 inch clutch could take the strain...
Jim E
Alkon wrote:
The Volvo clutch throwout bearing is a ball race and runs on a guide tube
around the gearbox input shaft. This type of clutch is totally incompatable
with the Rootes carbon throwout bearing. If you want to use the Volvo clutch
pressure plate then a guide tube and the correct type of throwout bearing
must be used. This work is really fairly simple to do and made easier if you
can steal the right parts off a Volvo. I have done this adaptation to couple
a Jag box to a Chrysler Hemi V8.
Unless you use dragracer clutch techniques. (7000rpm and step off the
clutch.) then the Rootes supplied item will handle anything that your 1600
or 1725 engine can deliver.
Keith
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