Jarrid
Jarrid Gross wrote:
> If the 2.0 V6 makes all its torque before 3000 RPM, then
> its not going to make any real HP.
>
That would be right, these motors are designed for family sedan applications
where low
down torque is more important than high revving BHP
>
> Unless the torque is really flat and only slightly falling after
> 3000 RPM, (Cologne engines not known for good port flow),
> Then one can assume that this engine will make in the 80 BHP
> range.
>
Every site I found says 90 bhp DIN at 5000 rpm
> Just a tad more torque than the 1600, less RPM range than
> the alpine makes at a wash as far as power goes.
So if you were fitting one (which I personally wouldn't do - I reckon there
must be a
better option), remember your putting a family sedan motor into a sports car.
it will
probably pull better at low revs, but not be much (if any) faster at higher
revs.
Depending on how you like to drive you would probably either change the cam
timing and
breathing to make it rev better, or change the final drive (gear it taller), to
take
advantage of the torque much lower in the rev range
Vic
>
> Victor Hughes wrote:
>
> > Ok, although most websites show only power, one (Danish Taunus owners) also
>had
> > torque. Not, however, in lb/ft or even Newton/meters but in " kpm" which I
> > assume means kilograms per meter (the conversion figures 'make sense').
>The 2.0
> > V6 has 15.2 'kpm' at 3000 rpm which converts to 110 lb/ft or 149 N/m. I
>think
> > a stock 1600 Alpine is about 94 lb/ft at 3800 rpm but am unsure as I have no
> > Alpine literature with me.
> >
> > The Danish Taunus owners website has more data (in English) on these 2.0
>engines
> > for those interested: http://www.taunus.dk/teknik/tau-v6.htm
> >
> > I also found this website which has weights and dimensions for many engines
>(not
> > Rootes though) http://angelfire.com/ar/dw42/engfyi.htm
> >
> > If you need to convert power, torque etc this website is helpful
> > http://www.dieselnet.com/calculator/units1.html
> >
> > That's all folks
> >
> > Vic
> > S3, 80 + bhp , 94 lb/ft at 3800 rpm ?
> > Brock Commodore, 250+ bhp, 410 N/m at 3000 rpm
> > Mazda MX5, 82 kW, 136 N/m at 5000 rpm
> >
> > Louis & Laila wrote:
> >
> > > HP is HP, but I am sure it is the difference in torque that the conversion
> > > people are after.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > > Which would make the 90 bhp DIN for these V6s about 97 'Rootes' bhp
> > > >
> > > > Vic
> > > > S3 ST with 82 'Rootes' bhp (about 76 bhp DIN) + whatever extractors,
> > > downdraft
> > > > Weber and slightly higher compression gives
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jan Eyerman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Rootes HP was actually quite conservative. I believe that the 1968
> > > Rapier was
> > > > > quoted as 95 HP and was 88 DIN HP. The Early Minxes were quoted as 53
> > > HP and
> > > > > were 47 or 48 DIN. Nothing like some US cars which went decreased
>from
> > > 200+
> > > > > HP to 130 SAE/DIN HP.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jan Eyerman
> > > > > 1959 Hillman Minx Series III DeLuxe (52 1/2 HP or 47 DIN HP)
> > > > > 1973 Hillman Avenger DL (70 HP or 55 DIN HP)
> > > > >
> > > > > Victor Hughes <hughes@scides.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
> > > > > From the websites I found in Europe, the 2.0 was 90 bhp, the 2.3 was
>105
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > 2.6 was 125. That's in the European DIN way of quoting, which I
> > > understand is
> > > > > more conservative than the method used by Rootes in the 1960s. So 90
> > > bhp (or
> > > > > PS
> > > > > as they say in Europe) DIN may well be worth about 100 Rootes English
> > > bhp.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > >
> > > > > Vic
> > > > >
> > > > > Jarrid Gross wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually the 2.8 engine was 105 HP, the 2.0 would run in the 80 HP
> > > realm,
> > > > > > which would leave you with little more than a new engine, and a tad
> > > more
> > > > > > torque.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jarrid
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Alexander Adan" <adadan@sfsu.edu>
> > > > > > To: "Jarrid Gross" <jarrid_gross@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > Cc: "Alpine List" <alpines@autox.team.net>
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:27 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: 400each 2.6 V6s on Ebay
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the info, Jarrid. I wondered what, if any differences
> > > existed
> > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > various German Ford V6 motors, and whether there might be some
>extra
> > > > > > difficulties with this
> > > > > > > smaller version of the motor. I've been thinking that it might be
> > > wise
> > > > > to
> > > > > > buy more than
> > > > > > > one, if I can scrape up the funds and find a place to put it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For others curious about the motors, basically it's the smallest
> > > > > > displacement version of
> > > > > > > the German Ford V6, which is a popular conversion for Alpines.
>From
> > > what
> > > > > > I understand the
> > > > > > > block is the same and thus the conversion kit that is used for the
> > > 2.8
> > > > > > liter motor could be
> > > > > > > used for this, even though it's only a 2.0 liter motor. I'm not
> > > sure of
> > > > > > this however, and
> > > > > > > need to do more research.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The motors were listed in a "Dutch" auction on ebay starting at
>$250
> > > > > each,
> > > > > > and they are
> > > > > > > described as unused surplus motors rather than rebuilt. Since
>only
> > > two
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the 400 motors
> > > > > > > were sold in the ebay auction, the seller still has a bunch to
>sell.
> > > > > From
> > > > > > the exchange
> > > > > > > I've had with her so far I think she's willing to sell them for
>the
> > > > > > starting price of $250
> > > > > > > plus a shipping and packing charge--I don't know yet how she feels
> > > about
> > > > > > the motors being
> > > > > > > picked up in person. (Possibly a savings for me as I live in
> > > > > California.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's her original description of the motors, from the ebay
> > > auction:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > COMPLETE...READY TO INSTALL New 2.0 Liter V6 Assemblies consist of
> > > > > > Cylinder block w/
> > > > > > > piston, cylinder heads, crank and camshaft, Flywheel, Intake, Oil
> > > Filter,
> > > > > > Oil Pan, Spark
> > > > > > > Plugs, 2 Barrel Carb., Distributor w/ wires, Water Pumps, Fuel
>Pump,
> > > > > Valve
> > > > > > Covers, All
> > > > > > > internal Parts in Engine. (2000 CC) Standard Application: Taunus,
> > > > > Granada,
> > > > > > Consul
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alex Adan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jarrid Gross wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Carefull on the magic german V6 engines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Parts are absolutely NOT available in the US, and
> > > > > > > > some parts like the exhaust manifolds, which you will
> > > > > > > > need, are not the same as the larger (2.8) V6, and
> > > > > > > > might be tough to find as well.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Transmisions COULD also be of concern becuase
> > > > > > > > ford was fond of changing the locations of the starter,
> > > > > > > > making otherwise compatible transmisions dependant
> > > > > > > > upon a particular bellhousing, input shaft length, and
> > > > > > > > consequently a specific transmision.
> > > > > > > > Case in point is that the german V6 in US Capris
> > > > > > > > used an external shifter version of the pinto single
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > rail transmision due to the fact that the pinto engine
> > > > > > > > and bellhousing used a ford starter, and the german
> > > > > > > > mercury engine used a bosch starter on the opposite
> > > > > > > > side of the engine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think these engines would be a steal at $250
> > > > > > > > considering that they are new, just be aware of the
> > > > > > > > true cost of ownership once you get them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jarrid Gross
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Alexander Adan wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't know if anyone is still interested in the V6 engines
> > > that
> > > > > were
> > > > > > on ebay, but
> > > > > > > > > I've been in touch with the woman who is selling them, and she
> > > has
> > > > > > plenty left
> > > > > > > > > (according to the auction results, there was one bidder who
>took
> > > two
> > > > > > motors out of the
> > > > > > > > > 400). She told me that these are unused surplus motors, not
> > > rebuilt.
> > > > > > I'm in
> > > > > > > > > California, so I'm seriously considering picking one up for a
>V6
> > > > > > conversion as my
> > > > > > > > > pieced together (by a previous owner) Series IV has been
>garaged
> > > due
> > > > > > to alarming (and
> > > > > > > > > expensive sounding) noises that go away when the front
> > > spark-plug
> > > > > wire
> > > > > > is pulled.
> > > > > > > > > I've needed a new transmission for quite awhile as well, so
>I'm
> > > > > > thinking about
> > > > > > > > > swapping the whole works.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If anyone is interested in more information about the motors,
> > > let me
> > > > > > know and I'll be
> > > > > > > > > happy to ask her.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Alex Adan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > '65 Series IV with Series II clutch, homebrew soft top, and
>who
> > > knows
> > > > > > what else. . .
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