Jay_Laifman@countrywide.com writes:
>If you've got an old Alpine with nothing particular of importance about
>it,
>and only need to put a VIN on, and you put a VIN on from a same
>year/model
>Alpine, there is no fraud, especially if you disclose it to the buyer.
Disclosure must be made to DMV and any VIN cannot be switched without
their knowledge or permission. My statement that a fraud would occur
was predicated on an owner selling a vehicle with altered VIN to a
buyer without informing either the buyer or DMV. It doesn't make any
difference whether the vehicles were damaged or if there were or were
not something to hide. Even if both vehicles were in perfect
condition, if you switch the VIN's without DMV approval, sell the
vehicle without disclosure, then you have violated 10750/10751 and you
have committed a fraud.
>Also, just because a law says something is illegal, it does not mean its
>immoral or unethical. Some laws do prohibit immoral and unethical acts,
>which in and of themselves are immoral or unethical and don't need the
>law
>to make them so, like murder or fraud. Then there are actions that
>become
>illegal only because of the law, like speeding limits and VIN plates.
That is a huge generalization. Let's talk about changing VIN #'s, not
abortion or some other obviously controversial issue. Knowingly
changing a VIN without approval from DMV or informing a buyer is
illegal and unethical. I don't see how anyone could possibly justify
that. You seem to think that if there's nothing wrong with the cars
involved in the switch that someone can make the change without DMV
approval as long as they inform any potential buyers, at least that's
how I read you. That is not what the law says you must do. The law
says you must inform DMV and gain their approval FIRST.
As far as your comment about things that are illegal because of the
law, I think you are oversimplifying. OK, maybe speeding is not
immoral in itself, but there are ramifications to speeding that you
fail to take into account. And that is that by speeding you endanger
the lives of others, to me that is immoral & unethical.
>As to the particular sections cited, note that, as I indicated above,
>Section 10751 says that if there has been no theft, there is no
>violation:
I suggest you reread subsection (a) which reads..."No person shall
knowingly buy, sell, offer for sale, receive or have in his/her
possession any vehicle...from which any (VIN)...has been removed,
defaced, altered or destroyed...unless the vehicle...has attached
thereto an identification number ASSIGNED OR APPROVED BY THE
DEPARTMENT..." .
>Bottom line, there are worse things in the world you
>can do.
A classic statement of moral relativism.
This is all I'm saying, in a nutshell. If someone wants to change the
VIN on their car they must first inform the DMV and obtain their
permission to do so. That's it. Now, if a person decides NOT to do
that and make changes, then any action that follows, by definition is
illegal; even if they inform a potential buyer of the change because
they did not first inform and gain permission from the DMV.
Please do not misread me, I do not intend any insult or malice toward
anyone (printed media is so inadequate!).
CNA
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