Subject: Re: [WPTA] Request for feedback on wet sanding

From: Robert Kellogg via Wpta <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 07:10:03 -0500

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There is a guy in Butler named Mike Pintell who can probably do this. He is g=
oing to do some body work and paint on my E Type in March. He was recommend t=
o me by Bill Hahn. He showed me some of previous work and it looks quite goo=
d. Attached is a photo of his card.=20

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> On Feb 7, 2023, at 6:52 AM, Tim Prell via Wpta <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Can any members provide a referral for an auto body shop or detailer in th=
e Cranberry or Pittsburgh area that has good results wet sanding a paint job=
 to create a better finish? I was a doubter in the past but saw how it broug=
ht a 20 year-old ski boat back to new condition and might try it on one of m=
y vintage cars.
>=20
> thanks,
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> [email-masked]
>=20
> -------------------------------------
>=20
> http://www.wptriumph.org
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/wpta/rkellogg19@=
gmail.com
>=20
>=20

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-------------------------------------

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Pat Ledford via Wpta <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 08:26:16 -0500

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Tim there is a restoration shop just North of Cranberry on Route 19, the
club did a tour of his shop a number of years ago and the work looked
excellent.  The name is Hahn Auto restoration, 321 Perry Hwy harmony PA.
It is 4.9 miles North of Cranberry.
*Patrick *

*1980 TR-8 TPVDV8AT209637*

* Western Pennsylvania Triumph Association*

*The Wedge Owners Association (TWOA)*

On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 6:42 AM Tim Prell via Wpta <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Can any members provide a referral for an auto body shop or detailer in
> the Cranberry or Pittsburgh area that has good results wet sanding a paint
> job to create a better finish? I was a doubter in the past but saw how it
> brought a 20 year-old ski boat back to new condition and might try it on
> one of my vintage cars.
>
> thanks,
> Tim
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/wpta/[email-masked]
>
>
> --
*Patrick *

*1980 TR-8 TPVDV8AT209637*

* Western Pennsylvania Triumph Association*

*The Wedge Owners Association (TWOA)*

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<div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:gar=
amond,serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir=3D"auto">Tim there is a r=
estoration shop just North of Cranberry on Route 19, the club did a tour of=
 his shop a number of years ago and the work looked excellent.=C2=A0 The na=
me is Hahn Auto restoration, 321 Perry Hwy harmony PA.=C2=A0 It is 4.9 mile=
s North of Cranberry.<br clear=3D"all"></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-sma=
rtmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div><div><div><font size=3D"4" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:garamond,serif"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;arial black&quo=
t;,sans-serif"><i style=3D"font-family:&quot;arial black&quot;,sans-serif">=
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"2" style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(=
0,0,0)">Patrick</font> </span></i></span></span></font><span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif"><i style=3D"font-family:&quot;a=
rial narrow&quot;,sans-serif"><font size=3D"1" style=3D"font-family:&quot;a=
rial narrow&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></font></i></span></div>=
<div><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif"><i sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif"><font size=3D"1" sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">198=
0 TR-8 TPVDV8AT209637<br></font></i></span></div></div></div><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif"><i style=3D"font-family:&=
quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif"><font size=3D"1" style=3D"font-family:&=
quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Western Pennsylvania Triumph Association<br></font></i></span></div><div><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif"><i style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif"><font size=3D"1" style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;arial narrow&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">The Wedge =
Owners Association (TWOA)<br></font></i></span></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div><br></div></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 6:42 AM Tim Prell=
 via Wpta &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">wpta=
@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:so=
lid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr">C=
an any members provide a referral for an auto body shop or detailer in the =
Cranberry or Pittsburgh area that has good results wet sanding a paint job =
to create a better finish? I was a doubter in the past but saw how it broug=
ht a 20 year-old ski boat back to new condition and might try it on one of =
my vintage cars.<div><br></div><div>thanks,</div><div>Tim</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a><br>
<br>
-------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.wptriumph.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.wptriumph.org</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.=
net/mailman/options/wpta/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"g=
mail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><d=
iv><font size=3D"4"><span style=3D"font-family:garamond,serif"><span style=
=3D"font-family:arial black,sans-serif"><i><span style=3D"font-family:comic=
 sans ms,sans-serif"><font size=3D"2">Patrick</font> </span></i></span></sp=
an></font><span style=3D"font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif"><i><font size=
=3D"1"><br></font></i></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial na=
rrow,sans-serif"><i><font size=3D"1">1980 TR-8 TPVDV8AT209637<br></font></i=
></span></div></div></div><span style=3D"font-family:arial narrow,sans-seri=
f"><i><font size=3D"1">
Western Pennsylvania Triumph Association<br></font></i></span></div><div><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif"><i><font size=3D"1">The W=
edge Owners Association (TWOA)<br></font></i></span></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div>

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From: Clayton Yonker via Wpta <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 09:07:36 -0500

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Hi Tim,

This is something that is pretty straight forward if you want to do your
own work. You can do a panel at a time and spread it out to make it less
labor intensive. To get a perfect job you can use a guide coat on top of
the panel you want to wet sand. If you're just looking to get a decent job
you don't need a guide coat. Use 1800-2000 or higher sandpaper and sand the
panel. Keep it wet and you'll be able to see where the orange peel is. Sand
until it is no longer visible. If you're sanding a run, use a paint stir
stick and wrap it with sandpaper and concentrate on the run, moving in
circles until it's gone.

Paint comes off pretty quickly so keep an eye out to make sure you don't
sand through. If you have a low spot just use your hand to get it instead
of a sanding block. Same thing with high spots. They become pretty obvious
while you're sanding so don't worry that you'll miss anything. Keep about
1/2"-1" from your edges.

When you're done sanding use a buffer with a standard pad and polishing
compound that is used for taking out sand marks and then switch to a sponge
pad and a glazing compound. Don't use anything with substantial grit. It
will have the opposite effect. Keep away from edges and contours. If you
need to buff an edge or contour, turn the buffer so it pushes off of the
edge. Never have it pull towards the edge or it will tear the paint off.
Move in circular patterns and don't stay in one place. Wipe the surface
clean with a microfiber rag or soft clean up rags from a paint store.

If you're doing this on laquer, you rarely get orange peel but if you do be
very careful. Lacquer is very thin and easy to go through. Painting over it
is another issue. Lacquer loves heat so a higher spin speed is good but you
need to be careful. Acrylic and polyurethane like less heat. I keep the
spin speed around 1500 rpm for those.

If you want to attempt this yourself, you should be able to do it. It's a
good idea to get masking plastic to avoid the compound going all over
everything. It's about $25 for a roll. It'll be more than you need but it's
pretty handy.

Clay

On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 6:38 AM Tim Prell via Wpta <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/wpta/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi=C2=A0Tim,<div><br></div><div>This is something that is =
pretty straight forward if you want to do your own work. You can do a panel=
 at a time and spread it out to make it less labor intensive. To get a perf=
ect job you can use a guide coat on top of the panel you want to wet sand. =
If you&#39;re just looking to get a decent job you don&#39;t need a guide c=
oat. Use 1800-2000 or higher sandpaper=C2=A0and sand the panel. Keep it wet=
 and you&#39;ll be able to see where the orange peel is. Sand until it is n=
o longer visible. If you&#39;re sanding a run, use a paint stir stick and w=
rap it with sandpaper and concentrate on the run, moving=C2=A0in circles un=
til it&#39;s gone.</div><div><br></div><div>Paint comes off pretty quickly =
so keep an eye out to make sure you don&#39;t sand through. If you have a l=
ow spot just use your hand to get it instead of a sanding block. Same thing=
 with high spots. They become pretty obvious while you&#39;re sanding so do=
n&#39;t worry that=C2=A0you&#39;ll miss anything. Keep about 1/2&quot;-1&qu=
ot; from your edges.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>When you&#39;re done sa=
nding use a buffer with a standard pad and polishing compound=C2=A0that is =
used for taking out sand marks and then switch to a sponge pad and a glazin=
g compound. Don&#39;t use anything with substantial grit. It will have the =
opposite=C2=A0effect. Keep away from edges and contours. If you need to buf=
f an edge or contour, turn the buffer so it pushes=C2=A0off of the edge. Ne=
ver have it pull towards the edge or it will tear the paint off. Move in ci=
rcular patterns and don&#39;t stay in one place. Wipe the surface clean wit=
h a microfiber rag or soft clean up rags from a paint store.=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>If you&#39;re doing this on laquer, you rarely get orange =
peel but if you do be very careful. Lacquer=C2=A0is very thin and easy to g=
o through. Painting over it is another issue. Lacquer=C2=A0loves heat so a =
higher spin speed is good but you need to be careful. Acrylic and polyureth=
ane like less heat. I keep the spin speed around 1500 rpm for those.</div><=
div><br></div><div>If you want to attempt this yourself, you should be able=
 to do it. It&#39;s a good idea to get masking plastic to avoid the compoun=
d going all over everything. It&#39;s about $25 for a roll. It&#39;ll be mo=
re than you need but it&#39;s pretty handy.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=
Clay</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_attr">On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 6:38 AM Tim Prell via Wpta &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Can any members provide a referral for an auto body shop or detail=
er in the Cranberry or Pittsburgh area that has good results wet sanding a =
paint job to create a better finish? I was a doubter in the past but saw ho=
w it brought a 20 year-old ski boat back to new condition and might try it =
on one of my vintage cars.<div><br></div><div>thanks,</div><div>Tim</div></=
div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a><br>
<br>
-------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.wptriumph.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.wptriumph.org</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.n=
et/mailman/options/wpta/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: JIM UNDERWOOD via Wpta <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2023 12:12:30 -0500 (EST)

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You need to know exactly what you are working with.  A typical base/clear can be sanded an buffed but you still run a risk depending on how thick the clear is. When planning a sand and buff, an extra coat of clear is usually applied.  A single stage can also be sanded and buffed if it's a solid color (no metallic).   If you sand through coats of a metallic, it will look like the rings on a tree.   The comparison to a boat is a whole different deal.  They have a gel coat that is polyester resin and is the same as the resin used in the glass layup.  It gets sprayed into the mold first and is WAY thicker than a conventional paint job.  You may have a time finding a shop willing to do this as it would be hard to know what they are working with.  

>     On 02/07/2023 6:34 AM Tim Prell via Wpta <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Can any members provide a referral for an auto body shop or detailer in the Cranberry or Pittsburgh area that has good results wet sanding a paint job to create a better finish? I was a doubter in the past but saw how it brought a 20 year-old ski boat back to new condition and might try it on one of my vintage cars.
> 
>     thanks,
>     Tim
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/wpta/[email-masked]
> 
> 
> 

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<!doctype html>
<html>
 <head> 
  <meta charset="UTF-8"> 
 </head>
 <body>
  <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">
   <span id="_mce_caret"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">You need to know exactly what you are working with.&nbsp; A typical base/clear can be sanded an buffed but you still run a risk depending on how thick the clear is. When planning a sand and buff, an extra coat of clear is usually applied.&nbsp; A single stage can also be sanded and buffed if it's a solid color (no metallic).&nbsp; &nbsp;If you sand through coats of a metallic, it will look like the rings on a tree.&nbsp; &nbsp;The comparison to a boat is a whole different deal.&nbsp; They have a gel coat that is polyester resin and is the same as the resin used in the glass layup.&nbsp; It gets sprayed into the mold first and is WAY thicker than a conventional paint job.&nbsp; You may have a time finding a shop willing to do this as it would be hard to know what they are working with.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span>
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;" class="default-style">
   <span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><br></span>
  </div>
  <blockquote type="cite">
   <div>
    On 02/07/2023 6:34 AM Tim Prell via Wpta &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div dir="ltr">
    Can any members provide a referral for an auto body shop or detailer in the Cranberry or Pittsburgh area that has good results wet sanding a paint job to create a better finish? I was a doubter in the past but saw how it brought a 20 year-old ski boat back to new condition and might try it on one of my vintage cars.
    <div>
     <br>
    </div>
    <div>
     thanks,
    </div>
    <div>
     Tim
    </div>
   </div>_______________________________________________
   <br>[email-masked]
   <br>
   <br>-------------------------------------
   <br>
   <br>http://www.wptriumph.org
   <br>
   <br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
   <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
   <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/wpta/[email-masked]
   <br>
   <br>
   <br>
  </blockquote>
 </body>
</html>
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From: Gil Smith via Wpta <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2023 12:55:58 -0500

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--0000000000009d452105f433fb22

Hi Tim,

Lots of good advice in the responses.  I'll add a little of my own-  First,
if I were starting this project I'd try to determine the thickness of the
paint in question.  There are tools you can use to test to determine if
sanding is possible without removing too much.  Then I'd consider an
attempt to correct the finish with cutting, buffing, and polishing which
might bring it back to an acceptable level.  If not, move on to the wet
sanding.  Best of luck.

Gil

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 12:35 PM JIM UNDERWOOD via Wpta <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> You need to know exactly what you are working with.  A typical base/clear
> can be sanded an buffed but you still run a risk depending on how thick the
> clear is. When planning a sand and buff, an extra coat of clear is usually
> applied.  A single stage can also be sanded and buffed if it's a solid
> color (no metallic).   If you sand through coats of a metallic, it will
> look like the rings on a tree.   The comparison to a boat is a whole
> different deal.  They have a gel coat that is polyester resin and is the
> same as the resin used in the glass layup.  It gets sprayed into the mold
> first and is WAY thicker than a conventional paint job.  You may have a
> time finding a shop willing to do this as it would be hard to know what
> they are working with.
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/wpta/[email-masked]
>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/wpta/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tim,<div><br></div><div>Lots of good advice in the resp=
onses.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll add a little of my own-=C2=A0 First, if I were starti=
ng this project I&#39;d try to determine=C2=A0the thickness of the paint in=
 question.=C2=A0 There are tools you can use to test to determine if sandin=
g is possible without removing too much.=C2=A0 Then I&#39;d consider an att=
empt to correct the finish with cutting, buffing, and polishing which might=
 bring it back to an acceptable level.=C2=A0 If not, move on to the wet san=
ding.=C2=A0 Best of luck.</div><div><br></div><div>Gil=C2=A0</div></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, F=
eb 8, 2023 at 12:35 PM JIM UNDERWOOD via Wpta &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wpta@au=
tox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
  =20
=20
 <div>
  <div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(51,51,51)">
   <span id=3D"m_-2347935831478747749_mce_caret"><span style=3D"font-family=
:helvetica;font-size:12pt">You need to know exactly what you are working wi=
th.=C2=A0 A typical base/clear can be sanded an buffed but you still run a =
risk depending on how thick the clear is. When planning a sand and buff, an=
 extra coat of clear is usually applied.=C2=A0 A single stage can also be s=
anded and buffed if it&#39;s a solid color (no metallic).=C2=A0 =C2=A0If yo=
u sand through coats of a metallic, it will look like the rings on a tree.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The comparison to a boat is a whole different deal.=C2=A0 They=
 have a gel coat that is polyester resin and is the same as the resin used =
in the glass layup.=C2=A0 It gets sprayed into the mold first and is WAY th=
icker than a conventional paint job.=C2=A0 You may have a time finding a sh=
op willing to do this as it would be hard to know what they are working wit=
h.=C2=A0=C2=A0</span></span>
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(51,51,51)">
   <span style=3D"font-family:helvetica;font-size:12pt"><br></span>
  </div>
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
   <div>
    On 02/07/2023 6:34 AM Tim Prell via Wpta &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wpta@aut=
ox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Can any members provide a referral for an auto body shop or detailer in=
 the Cranberry or Pittsburgh area that has good results wet sanding a paint=
 job to create a better finish? I was a doubter in the past but saw how it =
brought a 20 year-old ski boat back to new condition and might try it on on=
e of my vintage cars.
    <div>
     <br>
    </div>
    <div>
     thanks,
    </div>
    <div>
     Tim
    </div>
   </div>_______________________________________________
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