Subject: Re: [TR] advice needed on chains for pulling engine

From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:03:26 -0500

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=E2=80=9CA chain is only as strong as its weakest point=E2=80=9D  =20
Use a chain rated at 1.5x of what your lifting, my opinion.=20

Bill B
TS30800L

Sent from my TRS-80

On Aug 14, 2024, at 12:48=E2=80=AFPM, Sujit Roy <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:

=EF=BB=BF
Lets say I have a 1000lb engine. Will I be able to lift this engine from one=
 point on the engine and one point on the engine hoist?
Now, if I lift the same engine from 4 points, and one point on the engine ho=
ist, can I get away with using a chain rated at 250 lb?

Sujit =20

--
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">=E2=80=9CA chain is only as strong as its w=
eakest point=E2=80=9D &nbsp;&nbsp;<div>Use a chain rated at 1.5x of what you=
r lifting, my opinion.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Bill B</div><div>TS308=
00L</div><div><br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Se=
nt from my TRS-80</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 14, 2024, at 12:48=E2=80=AF=
PM, Sujit Roy &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Lets say I have a 1000lb engine. Will I b=
e able to lift this engine from one point on the engine and one point on the=
&nbsp;engine hoist?</div><div>Now, if I lift the same engine from 4 points, a=
nd one point on the engine hoist, can I get away with using a chain rated at=
 250 lb?</div><div><br></div><div>Sujit&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><br clear=3D"all"><=
div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div>Sujit Roy<br>Cupertino, California</div><div><br><a href=3D"https=
://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://triumphstagblog=
.wordpress.com/</a><br><br></div></div></div></div>
<span>** [email-masked] **</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate:=
 http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.ne=
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hs/[email-masked]</span><br></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 18:36:47 +0000

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From: David P <[email-masked]> (ame8.swcp.com [216.184.2.128]); Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:25:34 -0600 (MDT) SPF_PASS, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE version=4.0.0
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:25:33 -0600

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I've not had a chain fail, but I have had a cheap ass Chinese hook on 
cherry picker snap in half lifting a Jag engine. Buy a beefier one at a 
mining supply or maybe Grainger or Tractor supply. Cheap piece of mind.

On 8/14/2024 12:36 PM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter wrote:
> I’m not an engineer who calculates such things but I will give this a 
> big nope.  4 chains will need to carry the 1000 lb load - but it is 
> unlikely the load would be balanced perfectly on each chain so at 
> least one would exceed the 250lb limit.  In the real world I guess you 
> could consider what safety factors are used to define chain strength 
> but regardless I think it’s true that each chain would see different 
> weight.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 14, 2024, at 2:07 PM, Sujit Roy <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Lets say I have a 1000lb engine. Will I be able to lift this engine 
>> from one point on the engine and one point on the engine hoist?
>> Now, if I lift the same engine from 4 points, and one point on the 
>> engine hoist, can I get away with using a chain rated at 250 lb?
>>
>> Sujit
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Sujit Roy
>> Cupertino, California
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
> [email-masked] **
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

-- 
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 87107 ph 505-352-1378  My World go here:WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/

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    <p>I've not had a chain fail, but I have had a cheap ass Chinese
      hook on cherry picker snap in half lifting a Jag engine. Buy a
      beefier one at a mining supply or maybe Grainger or Tractor
      supply. Cheap piece of mind.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/14/2024 12:36 PM, Randy and
      Valerie DeRuiter wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      I’m not an engineer who calculates such things but I will give
      this a big nope.  4 chains will need to carry the 1000 lb load -
      but it is unlikely the load would be balanced perfectly on each
      chain so at least one would exceed the 250lb limit.  In the real
      world I guess you could consider what safety factors are used to
      define chain strength but regardless I think it’s true that each
      chain would see different weight.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature">
        <div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
          <blockquote type="cite">On Aug 14, 2024, at 2:07 PM, Sujit Roy
            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>Lets say I have a 1000lb engine. Will I be able to
                lift this engine from one point on the engine and one
                point on the engine hoist?</div>
              <div>Now, if I lift the same engine from 4 points, and one
                point on the engine hoist, can I get away with using a
                chain rated at 250 lb?</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Sujit  </div>
              <br clear="all">
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
                data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div>Sujit Roy<br>
                    Cupertino, California</div>
                  <div><br>
                    <a href="https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/</a><br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <span>** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **</span><br>
            <span></span><br>
            <span>Donate: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br>
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          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 87107 ph 505-352-1378  My World go here: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/">WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/</a></pre>
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From: "Alex&Janet Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:32:23 -0400

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You can get the low-down on chain types here from Toronto Trailers. It's =
a good but fairly long introduction so I will copy/paste just one =
section.

=20

https://torontotrailers.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-working-load-limi=
ts-of-chains/=20

The Facts About Working Load Limit

A chain=E2=80=99s working load limit (WLL) is used as a safety measure =
to identify the chains which are sufficiently strong for overhead =
lifting. The process of lifting a load could be lethal especially if the =
incorrect equipment is used.=20

Moving a heavy load across the ground is beneficial as the ground helps =
support the load. The coefficient of friction must be overcome in order =
to effortlessly move the load. Also, the working load limit of the chain =
needs to match the load=E2=80=99s weight. The chain must manage the =
applied tension.=20

Once the load is lifted off the ground, gravity must be overcome. The =
working load limit of the chain must be sufficiently strong to support =
the load=E2=80=99s weight as well as any added forces from the hitch =
types and angles used.

*	A chain=E2=80=99s WLL is the maximum tension that can be placed on an =
undamaged or brand new chain. The WLL=E2=80=99s rated capacity is shown =
in pounds.
*	The WLL is computed by dividing the chain=E2=80=99s minimum breaking =
strength by its assigned safety factor rating.
*	The chain=E2=80=99s WLL is determined by its diameter and grade.
*	Factors that affect a chain=E2=80=99s WLL is constant wear, use, =
twists, alteration, corrosion, misuse.=20
*	Chains must be inspected regularly to make sure it is safe to use.
*	The WLL is different from the tensile or breaking strength. Chain =
manufacturers set the WLL to determine the maximum force that can be =
used on the product.
*	The WLL is a quarter or a fifth of the chain=E2=80=99s breaking =
strength. When a ratchet with a chain is used, the WLL is the lowest =
rating of the components utilized.

I can tell you from experience that the results of a broken chain used =
for overhead lifting is not pretty! Don't forget that fasteners on an =
engine, such as 3/8" bolts, also have a limited capacity.

=20

Alex Thomson

'73 TR6

Full line of tractors and hay equipment.

=20

=20

=20

From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Sujit Roy
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2024 1:45 PM
To: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Subject: -- SPAM -- [TR] advice needed on chains for pulling engine

=20

Lets say I have a 1000lb engine. Will I be able to lift this engine from =
one point on the engine and one point on the engine hoist?

Now, if I lift the same engine from 4 points, and one point on the =
engine hoist, can I get away with using a chain rated at 250 lb?

=20

Sujit =20

=20

--=20

Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You can get the low-down on =
chain types here from Toronto Trailers. It's a good but fairly long =
introduction so I will copy/paste just one =
section.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://torontotrailers.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-working-l=
oad-limits-of-chains/">https://torontotrailers.com/what-you-need-to-know-=
about-working-load-limits-of-chains/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0in;mso-line-height-alt:14.4pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:22.5pt;font-family:Raleway;color:#181B31'>The Facts =
About Working Load Limit<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:15.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway;color:#737373'>A =
chain=E2=80=99s working load limit (WLL) is used as a safety measure to =
identify the chains which are sufficiently strong for overhead lifting. =
The process of lifting a load could be lethal especially if the =
incorrect equipment is used.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:15.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway;color:#737373'>Moving a =
heavy load across the ground is beneficial as the ground helps support =
the load. The coefficient of friction must be overcome in order to =
effortlessly move the load. Also, the working load limit of the chain =
needs to match the load=E2=80=99s weight. The chain must manage the =
applied tension.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:15.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway;color:#737373'>Once the =
load is lifted off the ground, gravity must be overcome. The working =
load limit of the chain must be sufficiently strong to support the =
load=E2=80=99s weight as well as any added forces from the hitch types =
and angles used.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul type=3Ddisc><li =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'color:#737373;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway'>A chain=E2=80=99s WLL is =
the maximum tension that can be placed on an undamaged or brand new =
chain. The WLL=E2=80=99s rated capacity is shown in =
pounds.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'color:#737373;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway'>The WLL is computed by =
dividing the chain=E2=80=99s minimum breaking strength by its assigned =
safety factor rating.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'color:#737373;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway'>The chain=E2=80=99s WLL =
is determined by its diameter and grade.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'color:#737373;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway'>Factors that affect a =
chain=E2=80=99s WLL is constant wear, use, twists, alteration, =
corrosion, misuse.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'color:#737373;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway'>Chains must be inspected =
regularly to make sure it is safe to use.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'color:#737373;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway'>The WLL is different from =
the tensile or breaking strength. Chain manufacturers set the WLL to =
determine the maximum force that can be used on the =
product.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'color:#737373;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Raleway'>The WLL is a quarter or a =
fifth of the chain=E2=80=99s breaking strength. When a ratchet with a =
chain is used, the WLL is the lowest rating of the components =
utilized.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I can tell you from experience =
that the results of a broken chain used for overhead lifting is not =
pretty! Don't forget that fasteners on an engine, such as 3/8&quot; =
bolts, also have a limited capacity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Alex =
Thomson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>'73 TR6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Full =
line of tractors and hay equipment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
 style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Triumphs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sujit =
Roy<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 14, 2024 1:45 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> -- SPAM -- =
[TR] advice needed on chains for pulling engine<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Lets say I have a 1000lb engine. Will I be able to =
lift this engine from one point on the engine and one point on =
the&nbsp;engine hoist?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Now, if I lift the same engine from 4 points, and one =
point on the engine hoist, can I get away with using a chain rated at =
250 lb?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sujit&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
class=3Dgmailsignatureprefix>-- </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sujit Roy<br>Cupertino, =
California<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><a =
href=3D"https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/</a><o:p></o:p></=
p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: Paul Tegler <[email-masked]> mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 23:04:40 -0400

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each chain regardless should be rated for the lift. The 'multiple' is 
nothing more than balance.
If each chain were only rated at 250, and you were relying on 250 
x4....  and one breaks on you... they all will go as you just over 
loaded the remaining chains.
with one point on hoist and one on engine, several chains, or loops is 
another story.  PAYOR!

ptegler

On 8/14/2024 4:25 PM, David P wrote:
> cherry picker snap in half lifting a Jag engine. Buy a beefier one at 
> a mining supply or maybe Grainger or Tractor supply. Cheap piece of mind.
>
>> least one would exceed the 250lb limit.  In the real world I guess 
>> you could consider what safety factors are used to define chain 
>> strength but regardless I think it’s true that each chain would see 
>> different weight.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

-- 
Paul Tegler
[email-masked]   www.teglerizer.com

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  <body>
    <p>each chain regardless should be rated for the lift. The
      'multiple' is nothing more than balance.<br>
      If each chain were only rated at 250, and you were relying on 250
      x4....  and one breaks on you... they all will go as you just over
      loaded the remaining chains.<br>
      with one point on hoist and one on engine, several chains, or
      loops is another story.  PAYOR!</p>
    <p>ptegler</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/14/2024 4:25 PM, David P wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p>I've not had a chain fail, but I have had a cheap ass Chinese
        hook on cherry picker snap in half lifting a Jag engine. Buy a
        beefier one at a mining supply or maybe Grainger or Tractor
        supply. Cheap piece of mind.<br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/14/2024 12:36 PM, Randy and
        Valerie DeRuiter wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
          content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
        I’m not an engineer who calculates such things but I will give
        this a big nope.  4 chains will need to carry the 1000 lb load -
        but it is unlikely the load would be balanced perfectly on each
        chain so at least one would exceed the 250lb limit.  In the real
        world I guess you could consider what safety factors are used to
        define chain strength but regardless I think it’s true that each
        chain would see different weight.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature">
          <div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
          <div dir="ltr"><br>
            <blockquote type="cite">On Aug 14, 2024, at 2:07 PM, Sujit
              Roy <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>
              wrote:<br>
              <br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>Lets say I have a 1000lb engine. Will I be able to
                  lift this engine from one point on the engine and one
                  point on the engine hoist?</div>
                <div>Now, if I lift the same engine from 4 points, and
                  one point on the engine hoist, can I get away with
                  using a chain rated at 250 lb?</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Sujit  </div>
                <br clear="all">
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
                  data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div>Sujit Roy<br>
                      Cupertino, California</div>
                    <div><br>
                      <a href="https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/</a><br>
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      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 87107 ph 505-352-1378  My World go here: <a
      class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
      href="http://WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/" moz-do-not-send="true">WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/</a></pre>
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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Paul Tegler
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