Subject: Re: [TR] Engine colours

From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:29:05 -0500

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Yep, that=E2=80=99s what mine looked like. &=
nbsp;I wonder what the white lettering on the unit behind it is about?<div><=
br></div><div>Bill B</div><div>TS30800L</div><div><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">=E2=
=80=9CShoot low sheriff, she=E2=80=99s riding a shetland=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6B=
.Wills</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 18, 2023, at 12:12 PM, Don Hiscock &=
lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Orang=
e-red handpainted&nbsp;marshalling marks on a TR3 engine on the Coventry pro=
duction&nbsp;line in 1958.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-s=
ize:small"><a href=3D"https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744=
/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg">https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i=
-b5KrzK2.jpg</a><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 10:21=E2=80=AFPM DAVE HOGYE=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I believe all T=
R blocks came from the same foundry, with the cast-in embossed Bilchrome. I a=
lso believe that all engines had "TR" plus a number brush painted on the sid=
e, to easily pull the correct engine after it's assembly and install it in t=
he correct car.&nbsp; Morgan engines were also being assembled on the same a=
ssembly line, as far as I know.&nbsp; Maybe they had an "M" painted on the s=
ide, but I don't have direct knowledge of this.&nbsp; All TR3-4 engines that=
 I have seen with the original black engine paint, have the TR plus a number=
, brush painted on the manifold side.&nbsp; Kind of neat stuff to find all t=
hese years later. I guess that for a correct concourse restoration, the bloc=
k paint marks should be replicated.<br>
Dave H.&nbsp; <br>
&gt; On 06/16/2023 6:13 PM PDT dave northrup &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dave@rant=
eer.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&nbsp; <br>
&gt; Here are some closeups showing first the TR painted letters, then the e=
ngine "part number."&nbsp; These both must be reconditioned/warranty?&nbsp; W=
ould not a normal factory engine say Stanpart?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of John M=
acartney<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 5:46 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triump=
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [TR] Engine colours<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; It must be more than twenty years back when this topic on reconditioned=
 engines was aired and I remember contributing to it.<br>
&gt; One of the major issues in unit reconditioning is getting the old units=
 (aka in the U.K. as corps or cores) and it would be tedious and cost prohib=
itive in the extreme to ship worn engines, gearboxes and other electrical it=
ems across the Atlantic or more oceans if you include Australia and the Far E=
ast. All unit recon work on engines and gearboxes for the U.K. and Europe wa=
s undertaken by a Standard-Triumph subsidiary called Beans Industries. In my=
 day, a Beans rebuilt engine was painted an unattractive shade of blue and t=
he engine number was ground off and replaced by a totally different number s=
tamped in place.<br>
&gt; George Durand who was the company=E2=80=99s Parts Director was very pro=
ud of the unit recon and service exchange programmes he had established in a=
 number of major markets and there was definitely one for the US and another=
 for Canada. Basically, Standard-Triumph North America in Leonia, NJ togethe=
r with their opposite numbers in Toronto, contracted two local companies to d=
o their recon work as genuine factory replacements using parts supplied by S=
TNA and STC parts divisions. It can=E2=80=99t be ruled out that some blue Be=
ans recon units arrived stateside as part of regular parts shipments from th=
e factory but it makes economic sense for the import company to set up this s=
ort of arrangement on a local basis but what colours that might have been us=
ed is anyone=E2=80=99s guess.<br>
&gt; It=E2=80=99s all rather like the Triumph branded radios sold as genuine=
 factory approved units. The Acclaim was the first car to have a radio as st=
andard fit but cars that went for export were usually radio-less and had a l=
ocally supplied unit fitted before delivery.<br>
&gt; Lucas had a different arrangement and usually supplied a new unit in a s=
ervice exchange packaging identity at a slightly lower retail price.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Jonmac<br>
&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumph=
[email-masked]</a> **<br>
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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:48:50 -0500

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I can read a "ZA-something" and "CKD" in white over an orange-red "3".
Possibly an engine destined for a South African knocked down kit using some
variation on the acronyms?

On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 12:29=E2=80=AFPM bill beecher <[email-masked]=
> wrote:

> Yep, that=E2=80=99s what mine looked like.  I wonder what the white lette=
ring on
> the unit behind it is about?
>
> Bill B
> TS30800L
>
>
> =E2=80=9CShoot low sheriff, she=E2=80=99s riding a shetland=E2=80=9D =E2=
=80=A6B.Wills
>
> On Jun 18, 2023, at 12:12 PM, Don Hiscock <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Orange-red handpainted marshalling marks on a TR3 engine on the Coventry
> production line in 1958.
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg
>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 10:21=E2=80=AFPM DAVE HOGYE <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:
>
>> I believe all TR blocks came from the same foundry, with the cast-in
>> embossed Bilchrome. I also believe that all engines had "TR" plus a numb=
er
>> brush painted on the side, to easily pull the correct engine after it's
>> assembly and install it in the correct car.  Morgan engines were also be=
ing
>> assembled on the same assembly line, as far as I know.  Maybe they had a=
n
>> "M" painted on the side, but I don't have direct knowledge of this.  All
>> TR3-4 engines that I have seen with the original black engine paint, hav=
e
>> the TR plus a number, brush painted on the manifold side.  Kind of neat
>> stuff to find all these years later. I guess that for a correct concours=
e
>> restoration, the block paint marks should be replicated.
>> Dave H.
>> > On 06/16/2023 6:13 PM PDT dave northrup <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Here are some closeups showing first the TR painted letters, then the
>> engine "part number."  These both must be reconditioned/warranty?  Would
>> not a normal factory engine say Stanpart?
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of John
>> Macartney
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 5:46 PM
>> > To: [email-masked]
>> > Subject: [TR] Engine colours
>> >
>> > It must be more than twenty years back when this topic on reconditione=
d
>> engines was aired and I remember contributing to it.
>> > One of the major issues in unit reconditioning is getting the old unit=
s
>> (aka in the U.K. as corps or cores) and it would be tedious and cost
>> prohibitive in the extreme to ship worn engines, gearboxes and other
>> electrical items across the Atlantic or more oceans if you include
>> Australia and the Far East. All unit recon work on engines and gearboxes
>> for the U.K. and Europe was undertaken by a Standard-Triumph subsidiary
>> called Beans Industries. In my day, a Beans rebuilt engine was painted a=
n
>> unattractive shade of blue and the engine number was ground off and
>> replaced by a totally different number stamped in place.
>> > George Durand who was the company=E2=80=99s Parts Director was very pr=
oud of
>> the unit recon and service exchange programmes he had established in a
>> number of major markets and there was definitely one for the US and anot=
her
>> for Canada. Basically, Standard-Triumph North America in Leonia, NJ
>> together with their opposite numbers in Toronto, contracted two local
>> companies to do their recon work as genuine factory replacements using
>> parts supplied by STNA and STC parts divisions. It can=E2=80=99t be rule=
d out that
>> some blue Beans recon units arrived stateside as part of regular parts
>> shipments from the factory but it makes economic sense for the import
>> company to set up this sort of arrangement on a local basis but what
>> colours that might have been used is anyone=E2=80=99s guess.
>> > It=E2=80=99s all rather like the Triumph branded radios sold as genuin=
e factory
>> approved units. The Acclaim was the first car to have a radio as standar=
d
>> fit but cars that went for export were usually radio-less and had a loca=
lly
>> supplied unit fitted before delivery.
>> > Lucas had a different arrangement and usually supplied a new unit in a
>> service exchange packaging identity at a slightly lower retail price.
>> >
>> > Jonmac
>> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I c=
an read a &quot;ZA-something&quot; and &quot;CKD&quot; in white over an ora=
nge-red &quot;3&quot;.=C2=A0 Possibly an engine destined for a South Africa=
n knocked down kit using some variation on the acronyms?</div></div><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 1=
8, 2023 at 12:29=E2=80=AFPM bill beecher &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:notakitcar@y=
ahoo.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Yep, that=E2=80=99s what mi=
ne looked like.=C2=A0 I wonder what the white lettering on the unit behind =
it is about?<div><br></div><div>Bill B</div><div>TS30800L</div><div><br><br=
><div dir=3D"ltr">=E2=80=9CShoot low sheriff, she=E2=80=99s riding a shetla=
nd=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6B.Wills</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 18, 2023, at =
12:12 PM, Don Hiscock &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-si=
ze:small">Orange-red handpainted=C2=A0marshalling marks on a TR3 engine on =
the Coventry production=C2=A0line in 1958.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-size:small"><a href=3D"https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-=
b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg" target=3D"_blank">https://photos.smugmu=
g.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg</a><br></div></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun =
16, 2023 at 10:21=E2=80=AFPM DAVE HOGYE &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dlhogye@comca=
st.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I believe all TR blocks came f=
rom the same foundry, with the cast-in embossed Bilchrome. I also believe t=
hat all engines had &quot;TR&quot; plus a number brush painted on the side,=
 to easily pull the correct engine after it&#39;s assembly and install it i=
n the correct car.=C2=A0 Morgan engines were also being assembled on the sa=
me assembly line, as far as I know.=C2=A0 Maybe they had an &quot;M&quot; p=
ainted on the side, but I don&#39;t have direct knowledge of this.=C2=A0 Al=
l TR3-4 engines that I have seen with the original black engine paint, have=
 the TR plus a number, brush painted on the manifold side.=C2=A0 Kind of ne=
at stuff to find all these years later. I guess that for a correct concours=
e restoration, the block paint marks should be replicated.<br>
Dave H.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; On 06/16/2023 6:13 PM PDT dave northrup &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dave@ran=
teer.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; Here are some closeups showing first the TR painted letters, then the =
engine &quot;part number.&quot;=C2=A0 These both must be reconditioned/warr=
anty?=C2=A0 Would not a normal factory engine say Stanpart?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of John=
 Macartney<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 5:46 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">trium=
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [TR] Engine colours<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; It must be more than twenty years back when this topic on reconditione=
d engines was aired and I remember contributing to it.<br>
&gt; One of the major issues in unit reconditioning is getting the old unit=
s (aka in the U.K. as corps or cores) and it would be tedious and cost proh=
ibitive in the extreme to ship worn engines, gearboxes and other electrical=
 items across the Atlantic or more oceans if you include Australia and the =
Far East. All unit recon work on engines and gearboxes for the U.K. and Eur=
ope was undertaken by a Standard-Triumph subsidiary called Beans Industries=
. In my day, a Beans rebuilt engine was painted an unattractive shade of bl=
ue and the engine number was ground off and replaced by a totally different=
 number stamped in place.<br>
&gt; George Durand who was the company=E2=80=99s Parts Director was very pr=
oud of the unit recon and service exchange programmes he had established in=
 a number of major markets and there was definitely one for the US and anot=
her for Canada. Basically, Standard-Triumph North America in Leonia, NJ tog=
ether with their opposite numbers in Toronto, contracted two local companie=
s to do their recon work as genuine factory replacements using parts suppli=
ed by STNA and STC parts divisions. It can=E2=80=99t be ruled out that some=
 blue Beans recon units arrived stateside as part of regular parts shipment=
s from the factory but it makes economic sense for the import company to se=
t up this sort of arrangement on a local basis but what colours that might =
have been used is anyone=E2=80=99s guess.<br>
&gt; It=E2=80=99s all rather like the Triumph branded radios sold as genuin=
e factory approved units. The Acclaim was the first car to have a radio as =
standard fit but cars that went for export were usually radio-less and had =
a locally supplied unit fitted before delivery.<br>
&gt; Lucas had a different arrangement and usually supplied a new unit in a=
 service exchange packaging identity at a slightly lower retail price.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Jonmac<br>
&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triump=
[email-masked]</a> **<br>
&gt; <br>
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