Subject: Re: [TR] Engine colours

From: dave northrup <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 01:13:35 +0000

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From: DAVE HOGYE <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 20:10:26 -0700 (PDT)

I believe all TR blocks came from the same foundry, with the cast-in embossed Bilchrome. I also believe that all engines had "TR" plus a number brush painted on the side, to easily pull the correct engine after it's assembly and install it in the correct car.  Morgan engines were also being assembled on the same assembly line, as far as I know.  Maybe they had an "M" painted on the side, but I don't have direct knowledge of this.  All TR3-4 engines that I have seen with the original black engine paint, have the TR plus a number, brush painted on the manifold side.  Kind of neat stuff to find all these years later. I guess that for a correct concourse restoration, the block paint marks should be replicated.
Dave H.  
> On 06/16/2023 6:13 PM PDT dave northrup <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>  
> Here are some closeups showing first the TR painted letters, then the engine "part number."  These both must be reconditioned/warranty?  Would not a normal factory engine say Stanpart?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of John Macartney
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 5:46 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [TR] Engine colours
> 
> It must be more than twenty years back when this topic on reconditioned engines was aired and I remember contributing to it.
> One of the major issues in unit reconditioning is getting the old units (aka in the U.K. as corps or cores) and it would be tedious and cost prohibitive in the extreme to ship worn engines, gearboxes and other electrical items across the Atlantic or more oceans if you include Australia and the Far East. All unit recon work on engines and gearboxes for the U.K. and Europe was undertaken by a Standard-Triumph subsidiary called Beans Industries. In my day, a Beans rebuilt engine was painted an unattractive shade of blue and the engine number was ground off and replaced by a totally different number stamped in place.
> George Durand who was the company’s Parts Director was very proud of the unit recon and service exchange programmes he had established in a number of major markets and there was definitely one for the US and another for Canada. Basically, Standard-Triumph North America in Leonia, NJ together with their opposite numbers in Toronto, contracted two local companies to do their recon work as genuine factory replacements using parts supplied by STNA and STC parts divisions. It can’t be ruled out that some blue Beans recon units arrived stateside as part of regular parts shipments from the factory but it makes economic sense for the import company to set up this sort of arrangement on a local basis but what colours that might have been used is anyone’s guess.
> It’s all rather like the Triumph branded radios sold as genuine factory approved units. The Acclaim was the first car to have a radio as standard fit but cars that went for export were usually radio-less and had a locally supplied unit fitted before delivery.
> Lucas had a different arrangement and usually supplied a new unit in a service exchange packaging identity at a slightly lower retail price.
> 
> Jonmac
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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 10:46:41 -0500

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Orange-red handpainted marshalling marks on a TR3 engine on the Coventry
production line in 1958.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg

On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 10:21=E2=80=AFPM DAVE HOGYE <[email-masked]> w=
rote:

> I believe all TR blocks came from the same foundry, with the cast-in
> embossed Bilchrome. I also believe that all engines had "TR" plus a numbe=
r
> brush painted on the side, to easily pull the correct engine after it's
> assembly and install it in the correct car.  Morgan engines were also bei=
ng
> assembled on the same assembly line, as far as I know.  Maybe they had an
> "M" painted on the side, but I don't have direct knowledge of this.  All
> TR3-4 engines that I have seen with the original black engine paint, have
> the TR plus a number, brush painted on the manifold side.  Kind of neat
> stuff to find all these years later. I guess that for a correct concourse
> restoration, the block paint marks should be replicated.
> Dave H.
> > Here are some closeups showing first the TR painted letters, then the
> engine "part number."  These both must be reconditioned/warranty?  Would
> not a normal factory engine say Stanpart?
> >
> > It must be more than twenty years back when this topic on reconditioned
> engines was aired and I remember contributing to it.
> > One of the major issues in unit reconditioning is getting the old units
> (aka in the U.K. as corps or cores) and it would be tedious and cost
> prohibitive in the extreme to ship worn engines, gearboxes and other
> electrical items across the Atlantic or more oceans if you include
> Australia and the Far East. All unit recon work on engines and gearboxes
> for the U.K. and Europe was undertaken by a Standard-Triumph subsidiary
> called Beans Industries. In my day, a Beans rebuilt engine was painted an
> unattractive shade of blue and the engine number was ground off and
> replaced by a totally different number stamped in place.
> > George Durand who was the company=E2=80=99s Parts Director was very pro=
ud of the
> unit recon and service exchange programmes he had established in a number
> of major markets and there was definitely one for the US and another for
> Canada. Basically, Standard-Triumph North America in Leonia, NJ together
> with their opposite numbers in Toronto, contracted two local companies to
> do their recon work as genuine factory replacements using parts supplied =
by
> STNA and STC parts divisions. It can=E2=80=99t be ruled out that some blu=
e Beans
> recon units arrived stateside as part of regular parts shipments from the
> factory but it makes economic sense for the import company to set up this
> sort of arrangement on a local basis but what colours that might have bee=
n
> used is anyone=E2=80=99s guess.
> > It=E2=80=99s all rather like the Triumph branded radios sold as genuine=
 factory
> approved units. The Acclaim was the first car to have a radio as standard
> fit but cars that went for export were usually radio-less and had a local=
ly
> supplied unit fitted before delivery.
> > Lucas had a different arrangement and usually supplied a new unit in a
> service exchange packaging identity at a slightly lower retail price.
> >
> > Jonmac
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Ora=
nge-red handpainted=C2=A0marshalling marks on a TR3 engine on the Coventry =
production=C2=A0line in 1958.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:small"><a href=3D"https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86a=
c2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg">https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac27=
44/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg</a><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 10:21=E2=80=AFPM DA=
VE HOGYE &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I be=
lieve all TR blocks came from the same foundry, with the cast-in embossed B=
ilchrome. I also believe that all engines had &quot;TR&quot; plus a number =
brush painted on the side, to easily pull the correct engine after it&#39;s=
 assembly and install it in the correct car.=C2=A0 Morgan engines were also=
 being assembled on the same assembly line, as far as I know.=C2=A0 Maybe t=
hey had an &quot;M&quot; painted on the side, but I don&#39;t have direct k=
nowledge of this.=C2=A0 All TR3-4 engines that I have seen with the origina=
l black engine paint, have the TR plus a number, brush painted on the manif=
old side.=C2=A0 Kind of neat stuff to find all these years later. I guess t=
hat for a correct concourse restoration, the block paint marks should be re=
plicated.<br>
Dave H.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; On 06/16/2023 6:13 PM PDT dave northrup &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dave@ran=
teer.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; Here are some closeups showing first the TR painted letters, then the =
engine &quot;part number.&quot;=C2=A0 These both must be reconditioned/warr=
anty?=C2=A0 Would not a normal factory engine say Stanpart?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of John=
 Macartney<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 5:46 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">trium=
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [TR] Engine colours<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; It must be more than twenty years back when this topic on reconditione=
d engines was aired and I remember contributing to it.<br>
&gt; One of the major issues in unit reconditioning is getting the old unit=
s (aka in the U.K. as corps or cores) and it would be tedious and cost proh=
ibitive in the extreme to ship worn engines, gearboxes and other electrical=
 items across the Atlantic or more oceans if you include Australia and the =
Far East. All unit recon work on engines and gearboxes for the U.K. and Eur=
ope was undertaken by a Standard-Triumph subsidiary called Beans Industries=
. In my day, a Beans rebuilt engine was painted an unattractive shade of bl=
ue and the engine number was ground off and replaced by a totally different=
 number stamped in place.<br>
&gt; George Durand who was the company=E2=80=99s Parts Director was very pr=
oud of the unit recon and service exchange programmes he had established in=
 a number of major markets and there was definitely one for the US and anot=
her for Canada. Basically, Standard-Triumph North America in Leonia, NJ tog=
ether with their opposite numbers in Toronto, contracted two local companie=
s to do their recon work as genuine factory replacements using parts suppli=
ed by STNA and STC parts divisions. It can=E2=80=99t be ruled out that some=
 blue Beans recon units arrived stateside as part of regular parts shipment=
s from the factory but it makes economic sense for the import company to se=
t up this sort of arrangement on a local basis but what colours that might =
have been used is anyone=E2=80=99s guess.<br>
&gt; It=E2=80=99s all rather like the Triumph branded radios sold as genuin=
e factory approved units. The Acclaim was the first car to have a radio as =
standard fit but cars that went for export were usually radio-less and had =
a locally supplied unit fitted before delivery.<br>
&gt; Lucas had a different arrangement and usually supplied a new unit in a=
 service exchange packaging identity at a slightly lower retail price.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Jonmac<br>
&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triump=
[email-masked]</a> **<br>
&gt; <br>
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