Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39

From: JOSEPH MATO <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 10:56:13 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi. John Esposito is the best LBC mechanic in CT and he has a shop in Oxfor=
d, CT called Quantum Mechanics. He is a math nut and works with the MG club=
 and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He was making TR main shafts after h=
e found no saleable units.
Joe Mato62 Wood RoadRedding, CT 06896917 232 1555=20

    On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 02:49:34 PM EDT, [email-masked]=
am.net <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

You can reach the person managing the list at
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."

Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 1. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 second attempt, part 1 (aribert neumann)
=C2=A0 2. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 attempt, part2 (aribert neumann)
=C2=A0 3. Re: Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 second attempt, part 1 (DAVID MASSEY)
=C2=A0 4. Re: Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2nd attempt, part2 (DAVID MASSEY)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:46:53 -0400
From: aribert neumann <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 second attempt, part 1
Message-ID:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=3DZq4A@m=
ail.gmail.com>

I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so I am
resending it - guessing that I may have had too many (or too large of)
images.=C2=A0 I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the image file si=
zes
- hopefully this message will go thru.

I'll start off with a quick comment - as I started to type the e-mail
address, up popped suggestions that started with TR.=C2=A0 Third on the lis=
t
was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).=C2=A0 I sincerely hope
someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my questions.=C2=A0 I'm not o=
n
any other Triumph related groups - you are all I've got for input.

I am in the process of reassembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission -
please don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big
Triumphs.=C2=A0 On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars =
had
spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and raising an edge
on the main shaft.=C2=A0 What keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear=
 is
in motion?=C2=A0 I am focused on preventing this problem in the future.=C2=
=A0 When I
rotate first gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the shaft.=C2=
=A0 I
am wondering if the tolerance stack up of the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings,
spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was too large allowing
first gear to push the split collars forward on the shaft.=C2=A0 What else =
could
cause this rotation/wear?

Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning split
washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in the first
gear pocket.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this messa=
ge.
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0400
From: aribert neumann <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2nd attempt, part2
Message-ID:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <CAGkVM2_qddwDt8R2M5Wx1mGzUgXgX1kQH6noupRw_yA7JqY-BQ@mai=
l.gmail.com>

Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a couple of
places.=C2=A0 The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I have opened=
 up
the bushings to only have a light interference fit).=C2=A0 Worst is the dia=
meter
under the rear bearing.=C2=A0 I can install the bearing but I have to hamme=
r it
***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing -
guessing I might change the inner race diameter a miniscule amount.=C2=A0 I=
'm
thinking of sending this main shaft back to Spitbits and reusing my old
main shaft.=C2=A0 I have cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my
lathe.=C2=A0 The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage be=
aring
rides in the input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the shaft and
only on half of the bearing surface (fore/aft).=C2=A0 I am already going to
replace the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surface
inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear also.=C2=A0 The max amount of
surface missing on the nose of the old main shaft is 0.003 in diameter.
 Images:=C2=A0 exploded view from Bentley=C2=A0 manual, nose of the old, wo=
rn
mainshaft

Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in digest mode awaiting your
responses.=C2=A0 Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday mornin=
g.
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)
From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 experience - second attempt, part 1

 It has been many years (< 25, I think) but I once rebuilt a TR6 transmissi=
on with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder like that.? Th=
ere was a thrust washer that fitted up against shoulder.? A few years later=
 I was rebuilding it again.? The thrust washer had broken into parts.? My s=
olution was to buy a new mainshaft (that is a story in itself) along with s=
ome other parts.? 25 years later that part is still soldering on.? (I had t=
o rebuild again for layshaft issues but that's unrelated)
I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.? The raised ridge is not=
 what worries me it is the fact that the edge of the grove is not square an=
d the thrust applied by the helical gears will point load the split collars=
 and they will fail again.? The TR6 transmission si probably different but =
the basic design is similar and the force loading is also similar.? Helical=
 gears are sued to keep tooth noise down but the fact that they are wound i=
n a helical manner around the axis means the forces applied to the gears is=
 at an angle to that axis.? Part of that force is used to rotate the shaft =
but the other is applied to the bearings at either end of the transmission =
meaning the split collars in your case will take up that force as an interf=
ace between the shaft and the bearing inner race.? I don't have enough expe=
rience to say whether the transmission will last a week, month, year or 10 =
years with that shaft but I would have much more confidence in a new, quali=
ty shaft.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: aribert neumann <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:46 pm
Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - seco=
nd attempt, part 1

I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so I am =
resending it - guessing that I may have had too many (or too large of) imag=
es.? ?I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the image file sizes - ho=
pefully this message will go thru.
I'll start off with a quick comment - as I started to type the e-mail addre=
ss, up popped suggestions that started with TR.? ?Third on the list was "TR=
3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I sincerely hope someone wi=
ll "fill his shoes" with respect to my questions.? ?I'm not on any other Tr=
iumph related groups - you are all I've got for input.
I am in the process of reassembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission - pl=
ease don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big Triumphs.=
? ?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars had spun on t=
he main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and raising an edge on the m=
ain shaft.? What keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is in motion=
?? I am focused on preventing this problem in the future.? When I rotate fi=
rst gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the shaft.? I am wonde=
ring if the tolerance stack up of the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings, spacers, etc=
 (from the circlip to the split collars) was too large allowing first gear =
to push the split collars forward on the shaft.? What else could cause this=
 rotation/wear???
Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning split =
washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in the first =
gear pocket.? ? Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this message.

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? http://www.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 experience - 2nd attempt, part2

 That looks like the heat treated, hardened? surface is starting to break u=
p.? That is what happened to my layshaft.? Another reason to abandon that m=
ainshaft.? If you have an alternate bearing combination that doesn't relay =
on that surface for the bearing rollers then the hardened surface is no lon=
ger critical.? But this is above my pay grade.

BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.? The split washers trans=
fer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but the end re=
sult is the same, with a compromised groove surface like that the split col=
lars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the grove to clean up the shoulde=
r will the split washers stay in place?? If they fall out you have serious =
problems.? Even if they stay in place will it increase backlash?? Can you g=
et oversized split collars?? Make shims?? All this is above my pay grade.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: aribert neumann <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:52 pm
Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd =
attempt, part2

Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a couple of =
places.? ?The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I have opened up =
the bushings to only have a light interference fit).? Worst is the diameter=
 under the rear bearing.? I can install the bearing but I have to hammer it=
 ***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing -=
 guessing I might change the inner race diameter a miniscule amount.? I'm t=
hinking of sending this main shaft back to Spitbits and reusing my old main=
 shaft.? I have cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my lathe.? T=
he other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage bearing rides in=
 the input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the shaft and only on=
 half of the bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to replace the=
 cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surface inside the in=
put shaft pocket is showing wear also.? The max amount of surface missing o=
n the nose of the old m
 ain shaft is 0.003 in diameter.? ?Images:? exploded view from Bentley? man=
ual, nose of the old, worn mainshaft

Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in digest mode awaiting your res=
ponses.? Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday morning.

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? http://www.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]
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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________

Triumphs mailing list
[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs

------------------------------

End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39
****************************************
 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp457cbbe1yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Hi. John Esposito is the best LBC mechanic=
 in CT and he has a shop in Oxford, CT called Quantum Mechanics. He is a ma=
th nut and works with the MG club and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He =
was making TR main shafts after he found no saleable units.</div><div><br><=
/div><div class=3D"ydp457cbbe1signature">Joe Mato<div>62 Wood Road</div><di=
v>Redding, CT 06896</div><div>917 232 1555</div></div></div>
        <div><br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp50442b40yahoo_quoted_0249459439" class=3D"ydp50=
442b40yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 02:49:34 PM EDT, triumphs-=
[email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">Send Triumphs mailing list submission=
s to<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:triumph=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To subscribe or =
unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triu=
mphs</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">or, via email, send a message with subje=
ct or body 'help' to<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">You can reach the person managing the list at<br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">When replying, pleas=
e edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">t=
han "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Today's Topics:<br></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;  1. Calling anyone with tran=
smission rebuilding experience -<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; second attempt, part 1 (aribert neumann)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nb=
sp;  2. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; attempt, part2 (aribert neumann)<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;  3. Re: Calling anyone with transmission re=
building experience -<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; second=
 attempt, part 1 (DAVID MASSEY)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;  4. Re: Ca=
lling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -<br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2nd attempt, part2 (DAVID MASSEY)<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">---------=
-------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 1<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:46:53 -0400<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: ari=
bert neumann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling=
 anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; second attempt, part 1<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Messag=
e-ID:<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP5=
4A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=[email-masked]&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I tried to send this message yesterday but it has=
 not appeared yet so I am<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">resending it - guessing=
 that I may have had too many (or too large of)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">i=
mages.&nbsp;  I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the image file si=
zes<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">- hopefully this message will go thru.<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I'll start off with a quick =
comment - as I started to type the e-mail<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">address=
, up popped suggestions that started with TR.&nbsp;  Third on the list<br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).&=
nbsp;  I sincerely hope<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">someone will "fill his sh=
oes" with respect to my questions.&nbsp;  I'm not on<br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">any other Triumph related groups - you are all I've got for input.<br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I am in the process of rea=
ssembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission -<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">pl=
ease don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big<br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Triumphs.&nbsp;  On dismantling my trans, I observed that =
the split collars had<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">spun on the main shaft, wea=
ring a relief in the collars and raising an edge<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
on the main shaft.&nbsp; What keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear=
 is<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">in motion?&nbsp; I am focused on preventing t=
his problem in the future.&nbsp; When I<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">rotate fi=
rst gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the shaft.&nbsp; I<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">am wondering if the tolerance stack up of the 2nd &a=
mp; 3rd gear bushings,<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">spacers, etc (from the cir=
clip to the split collars) was too large allowing<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>first gear to push the split collars forward on the shaft.&nbsp; What else=
 could<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">cause this rotation/wear?<br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Images as follows - old mainshaft with=
 raised edge from the spinning split<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">washers, goo=
d &amp; worn split washers, good split washers nested in the first<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">gear pocket.&nbsp; &nbsp; Off in digest mode preparing pa=
rt 2 of this message.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next part --=
------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipermai=
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ow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/=
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ow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/=
20230319/d071644c/attachment-0005.jpg</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 2<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Date:=
 Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0400<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: aribert ne=
umann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumph=
[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone=
 with transmission rebuilding experience -<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; 2nd attempt, part2<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID:<br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CAGkVM2_qddwD=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
il.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=
=3D"utf-8"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Next questi=
on - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a couple of<br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">places.&nbsp;  The diameter under the 2nd &amp; 3rd gear bus=
hings (I have opened up<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">the bushings to only have=
 a light interference fit).&nbsp; Worst is the diameter<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">under the rear bearing.&nbsp; I can install the bearing but I have=
 to hammer it<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">***hard*** to get it to fit on the =
shaft - can't be good for the bearing -<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">guessing =
I might change the inner race diameter a miniscule amount.&nbsp; I'm<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">thinking of sending this main shaft back to Spitbits an=
d reusing my old<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">main shaft.&nbsp; I have cleaned=
 up the groove for the split collars on my<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">lathe.=
&nbsp; The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage bearing<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">rides in the input shaft - this damage is only on=
 one side of the shaft and<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">only on half of the be=
aring surface (fore/aft).&nbsp; I am already going to<br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">replace the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surfa=
ce<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear =
also.&nbsp; The max amount of<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">surface missing on =
the nose of the old main shaft is 0.003 in diameter.<br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"> Images:&nbsp; exploded view from Bentley&nbsp; manual, nose of the old=
, worn<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">mainshaft<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in digest m=
ode awaiting your<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">responses.&nbsp; Trying to form=
ulate a new plan of attack for Monday morning.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">--=
------------ next part --------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">An HTML att=
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ail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/attachment-0001.htm</a>&gt;<br><=
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02.jpg" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/=
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><div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir=
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">Desc: not available<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://=
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0003.jpg" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermai=
l/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/attachment-0003.jpg</a>&gt;<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">----------------------------=
--<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 3<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)<br></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">From: DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">To: "[email-masked]" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;,<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "[email-masked]" &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triu=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] Cal=
ling anyone with transmission rebuilding<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; experience - second attempt, part 1<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Me=
ssage-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">2090616878.2487776.1679315988251@m=
ail.yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; c=
harset=3D"utf-8"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> It h=
as been many years (&lt; 25, I think) but I once rebuilt a TR6 transmission=
 with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder like that.? Ther=
e was a thrust washer that fitted up against shoulder.? A few years later I=
 was rebuilding it again.? The thrust washer had broken into parts.? My sol=
ution was to buy a new mainshaft (that is a story in itself) along with som=
e other parts.? 25 years later that part is still soldering on.? (I had to =
rebuild again for layshaft issues but that's unrelated)<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.? The raised rid=
ge is not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of the grove is not =
square and the thrust applied by the helical gears will point load the spli=
t collars and they will fail again.? The TR6 transmission si probably diffe=
rent but the basic design is similar and the force loading is also similar.=
? Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise down but the fact that they ar=
e wound in a helical manner around the axis means the forces applied to the=
 gears is at an angle to that axis.? Part of that force is used to rotate t=
he shaft but the other is applied to the bearings at either end of the tran=
smission meaning the split collars in your case will take up that force as =
an interface between the shaft and the bearing inner race.? I don't have en=
ough experience to say whether the transmission will last a week, month, ye=
ar or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more confidence in a n=
ew, quality shaft.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Da=
ve <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-----Origi=
nal Message-----<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">aribertn=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs=
@autox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:46 pm<br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding exp=
erience - second attempt, part 1<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared y=
et so I am resending it - guessing that I may have had too many (or too lar=
ge of) images.? ?I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the image file=
 sizes - hopefully this message will go thru.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I'l=
l start off with a quick comment - as I started to type the e-mail address,=
 up popped suggestions that started with TR.? ?Third on the list was "TR3dr=
iver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I sincerely hope someone will =
"fill his shoes" with respect to my questions.? ?I'm not on any other Trium=
ph related groups - you are all I've got for input.<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">I am in the process of reassembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission -=
 please don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big Triump=
hs.? ?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars had spun o=
n the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and raising an edge on th=
e main shaft.? What keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is in mot=
ion?? I am focused on preventing this problem in the future.? When I rotate=
 first gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the shaft.? I am wo=
ndering if the tolerance stack up of the 2nd &amp; 3rd gear bushings, space=
rs, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was too large allowing firs=
t gear to push the split collars forward on the shaft.? What else could cau=
se this rotation/wear???<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Images as follows - old =
mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning split washers, good &amp; worn=
 split washers, good split washers nested in the first gear pocket.? ? Off =
in digest mode preparing part 2 of this message.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">** <a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.=
team.net</a> **<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Donate=
: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Archive=
: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/ar=
chive" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tr=
iumphs/[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next=
 part --------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">An HTML attachment was scrub=
bed...<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/=
pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230320/3ea8a84d/attachment-0001.htm" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/at=
tachments/20230320/3ea8a84d/attachment-0001.htm</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 4<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)<br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">From: DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nof=
ollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">To: "[email-masked]" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;,<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "[email-masked]" &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@aut=
ox.team.net</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] Calling any=
one with transmission rebuilding<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; experience - 2nd attempt, part2<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-=
8"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> That looks like th=
e heat treated, hardened? surface is starting to break up.? That is what ha=
ppened to my layshaft.? Another reason to abandon that mainshaft.? If you h=
ave an alternate bearing combination that doesn't relay on that surface for=
 the bearing rollers then the hardened surface is no longer critical.? But =
this is above my pay grade.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.? The split washers=
 transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but the =
end result is the same, with a compromised groove surface like that the spl=
it collars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the grove to clean up the s=
houlder will the split washers stay in place?? If they fall out you have se=
rious problems.? Even if they stay in place will it increase backlash?? Can=
 you get oversized split collars?? Make shims?? All this is above my pay gr=
ade.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dave <br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-----Original Message---=
--<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ar=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:52 pm<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd =
attempt, part2<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Next qu=
estion - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a couple of places.=
? ?The diameter under the 2nd &amp; 3rd gear bushings (I have opened up the=
 bushings to only have a light interference fit).? Worst is the diameter un=
der the rear bearing.? I can install the bearing but I have to hammer it **=
*hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing - gu=
essing I might change the inner race diameter a miniscule amount.? I'm thin=
king of sending this main shaft back to Spitbits and reusing my old main sh=
aft.? I have cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my lathe.? The =
other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage bearing rides in th=
e input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the shaft and only on ha=
lf of the bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to replace the ca=
ge bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surface inside the input=
 shaft pocket is showing wear also.? The max amount of surface missing on t=
he nose of the old m<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> ain shaft is 0.003 in diame=
ter.? ?Images:? exploded view from Bentley? manual, nose of the old, worn m=
ainshaft<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Your thoughts=
 and suggestions please - off in digest mode awaiting your responses.? Tryi=
ng to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday morning.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Donate: <a href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Archive: http://www.team.=
net/pipermail/triumphs? <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://a=
utox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1mass=
[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next part ----------=
----<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triump=
hs/attachments/20230320/f8dfe8ba/attachment-0001.htm" rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230320=
/f8dfe8ba/attachment-0001.htm</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">_______________________________________________<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Triumphs mailing list<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs" rel=3D=
"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumph=
s</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">****************************************<br></div></div>
            </div>
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From: David P <[email-masked]> (ame7.swcp.com [216.184.2.128]); Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:13:47 -0600 (MDT) NO_RELAYS,SPF_PASS,T_MIME_MALF version=3.4.6
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:13:45 -0600

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I second that notion.. dp

On 3/21/2023 4:56 AM, JOSEPH MATO wrote:
> Hi. John Esposito is the best LBC mechanic in CT and he has a shop in 
> Oxford, CT called Quantum Mechanics. He is a math nut and works with 
> the MG club and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He was making TR 
> main shafts after he found no saleable units.
>
> Joe Mato
> 62 Wood Road
> Redding, CT 06896
> 917 232 1555
>
>
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 02:49:34 PM EDT, 
> [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
> [email-masked]
> [email-masked]
>
> [email-masked]
>
>   1. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
>       second attempt, part 1 (aribert neumann)
>   2. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd
>       attempt, part2 (aribert neumann)
>   3. Re: Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
>       second attempt, part 1 (DAVID MASSEY)
>   4. Re: Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
>       2nd attempt, part2 (DAVID MASSEY)
>
>
>     second attempt, part 1
> <CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> images.  I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the image file sizes
> address, up popped suggestions that started with TR.  Third on the list
> was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).  I sincerely hope
> someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my questions.  I'm not on
> Triumphs.  On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars had
> on the main shaft.  What keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is
> in motion?  I am focused on preventing this problem in the future.  When I
> rotate first gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the 
> shaft.  I
> first gear to push the split collars forward on the shaft.  What else 
> could
> gear pocket.    Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this message.
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0001.htm>
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0003.jpg>
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0004.jpg>
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0005.jpg>
>
>     2nd attempt, part2
>     <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> places.  The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I have opened up
> the bushings to only have a light interference fit).  Worst is the 
> diameter
> under the rear bearing.  I can install the bearing but I have to hammer it
> guessing I might change the inner race diameter a miniscule amount.  I'm
> main shaft.  I have cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my
> lathe.  The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage 
> bearing
> only on half of the bearing surface (fore/aft).  I am already going to
> inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear also.  The max amount of
> Images:  exploded view from Bentley  manual, nose of the old, worn
> mainshaft
>
> responses.  Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday morning.
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/attachment-0001.htm>
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/attachment-0002.jpg>
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/attachment-0003.jpg>
>
> "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
>     experience - second attempt, part 1
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> It has been many years (< 25, I think) but I once rebuilt a TR6 
> transmission with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder 
> like that.? There was a thrust washer that fitted up against 
> shoulder.? A few years later I was rebuilding it again.? The thrust 
> washer had broken into parts.? My solution was to buy a new mainshaft 
> (that is a story in itself) along with some other parts.? 25 years 
> later that part is still soldering on.? (I had to rebuild again for 
> layshaft issues but that's unrelated)
> I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.? The raised ridge 
> is not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of the grove is 
> not square and the thrust applied by the helical gears will point load 
> the split collars and they will fail again.? The TR6 transmission si 
> probably different but the basic design is similar and the force 
> loading is also similar.? Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise 
> down but the fact that they are wound in a helical manner around the 
> axis means the forces applied to the gears is at an angle to that 
> axis.? Part of that force is used to rotate the shaft but the other is 
> applied to the bearings at either end of the transmission meaning the 
> split collars in your case will take up that force as an interface 
> between the shaft and the bearing inner race.? I don't have enough 
> experience to say whether the transmission will last a week, month, 
> year or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more confidence 
> in a new, quality shaft.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> second attempt, part 1
> I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so 
> I am resending it - guessing that I may have had too many (or too 
> large of) images.? ?I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the 
> image file sizes - hopefully this message will go thru.
> address, up popped suggestions that started with TR.? ?Third on the 
> list was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I 
> sincerely hope someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my 
> questions.? ?I'm not on any other Triumph related groups - you are all 
> I've got for input.
> I am in the process of reassembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission 
> - please don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big 
> Triumphs.? ?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars 
> had spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and 
> raising an edge on the main shaft.? What keeps the collars from 
> rotating when 1st gear is in motion?? I am focused on preventing this 
> problem in the future.? When I rotate first gear on the shaft, the 
> split washers rotate with the shaft.? I am wondering if the tolerance 
> stack up of the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings, spacers, etc (from the 
> circlip to the split collars) was too large allowing first gear to 
> push the split collars forward on the shaft.? What else could cause 
> this rotation/wear???
> Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning 
> split washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in 
> the first gear pocket.? ? Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this 
> message.
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? 
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230320/3ea8a84d/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
>     experience - 2nd attempt, part2
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> That looks like the heat treated, hardened? surface is starting to 
> break up.? That is what happened to my layshaft.? Another reason to 
> abandon that mainshaft.? If you have an alternate bearing combination 
> that doesn't relay on that surface for the bearing rollers then the 
> hardened surface is no longer critical.? But this is above my pay grade.
>
> BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.? The split washers 
> transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but 
> the end result is the same, with a compromised groove surface like 
> that the split collars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the grove 
> to clean up the shoulder will the split washers stay in place?? If 
> they fall out you have serious problems.? Even if they stay in place 
> will it increase backlash?? Can you get oversized split collars?? Make 
> shims?? All this is above my pay grade.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> 2nd attempt, part2
> Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a 
> couple of places.? ?The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I 
> have opened up the bushings to only have a light interference fit).? 
> Worst is the diameter under the rear bearing.? I can install the 
> bearing but I have to hammer it ***hard*** to get it to fit on the 
> shaft - can't be good for the bearing - guessing I might change the 
> inner race diameter a miniscule amount.? I'm thinking of sending this 
> main shaft back to Spitbits and reusing my old main shaft.? I have 
> cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my lathe.? The other 
> damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage bearing rides in the 
> input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the shaft and only on 
> half of the bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to replace 
> the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surface 
> inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear also.? The max amount of 
> surface missing on the nose of the old m
> ain shaft is 0.003 in diameter.? ?Images:? exploded view from Bentley? 
> manual, nose of the old, worn mainshaft
>
> Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in digest mode awaiting 
> your responses.? Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday 
> morning.
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? 
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> URL: 
> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230320/f8dfe8ba/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> [email-masked]  **
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
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-- 
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 87107 ph 505-352-1378  My World go here:WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/

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    <p>I second that notion.. dp<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/2023 4:56 AM, JOSEPH MATO
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div class="ydp457cbbe1yahoo-style-wrap"
        style="font-family:verdana, helvetica,
        sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
        <div>
          <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hi. John Esposito is the
            best LBC mechanic in CT and he has a shop in Oxford, CT
            called Quantum Mechanics. He is a math nut and works with
            the MG club and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He was
            making TR main shafts after he found no saleable units.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div class="ydp457cbbe1signature">Joe Mato
            <div>62 Wood Road</div>
            <div>Redding, CT 06896</div>
            <div>917 232 1555</div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div id="ydp50442b40yahoo_quoted_0249459439"
        class="ydp50442b40yahoo_quoted">
        <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
          <div> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 02:49:34 PM EDT,
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr">Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    <a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
              Wide Web, visit<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    <a
                href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or
              body 'help' to<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    <a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    <a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line
              so it is more specific<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">  1. Calling anyone with transmission
              rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">      second attempt, part 1 (aribert
              neumann)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">  2. Calling anyone with transmission
              rebuilding experience - 2nd<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">      attempt, part2 (aribert neumann)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">  3. Re: Calling anyone with transmission
              rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">      second attempt, part 1 (DAVID MASSEY)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">  4. Re: Calling anyone with transmission
              rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">      2nd attempt, part2 (DAVID MASSEY)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:46:53 -0400<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    second attempt, part 1<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">   
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=[email-masked]">&lt;CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">I tried to send this message yesterday but it
              has not appeared yet so I am<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">resending it - guessing that I may have had
              too many (or too large of)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">images.  I'll splint it into two messages and
              reduce the image file sizes<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">- hopefully this message will go thru.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">I'll start off with a quick comment - as I
              started to type the e-mail<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">address, up popped suggestions that started
              with TR.  Third on the list<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I
              think).  I sincerely hope<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to
              my questions.  I'm not on<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">any other Triumph related groups - you are
              all I've got for input.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">I am in the process of reassembling (or
              trying to) my GT6 transmission -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">please don't tune out, conceptually the trans
              is similar to the big<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Triumphs.  On dismantling my trans, I
              observed that the split collars had<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in
              the collars and raising an edge<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">on the main shaft.  What keeps the collars
              from rotating when 1st gear is<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">in motion?  I am focused on preventing this
              problem in the future.  When I<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">rotate first gear on the shaft, the split
              washers rotate with the shaft.  I<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">am wondering if the tolerance stack up of the
              2nd &amp; 3rd gear bushings,<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split
              collars) was too large allowing<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">first gear to push the split collars forward
              on the shaft.  What else could<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">cause this rotation/wear?<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised
              edge from the spinning split<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">washers, good &amp; worn split washers, good
              split washers nested in the first<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">gear pocket.    Off in digest mode preparing
              part 2 of this message.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">URL: &lt;<a
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                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0001.htm</a>&gt;<br>
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                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0004.jpg</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br>
            </div>
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            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">URL: &lt;<a
href="http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0005.jpg"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0005.jpg</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Message: 2<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0400<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    2nd attempt, part2<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    &lt;<a
href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Next question - my (new) replacement main
              shaft is oversize in a couple of<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">places.  The diameter under the 2nd &amp; 3rd
              gear bushings (I have opened up<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">the bushings to only have a light
              interference fit).  Worst is the diameter<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">under the rear bearing.  I can install the
              bearing but I have to hammer it<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft -
              can't be good for the bearing -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">guessing I might change the inner race
              diameter a miniscule amount.  I'm<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">thinking of sending this main shaft back to
              Spitbits and reusing my old<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">main shaft.  I have cleaned up the groove for
              the split collars on my<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">lathe.  The other damage on the shaft is on
              the nose where the cage bearing<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">rides in the input shaft - this damage is
              only on one side of the shaft and<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">only on half of the bearing surface
              (fore/aft).  I am already going to<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">replace the cage bearing with a bearing
              bronze bushing since the surface<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear
              also.  The max amount of<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">surface missing on the nose of the old main
              shaft is 0.003 in diameter.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> Images:  exploded view from Bentley  manual,
              nose of the old, worn<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">mainshaft<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in
              digest mode awaiting your<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">responses.  Trying to formulate a new plan of
              attack for Monday morning.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br>
            </div>
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                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/attachment-0002.jpg</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
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            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Name: GT6 Wear on nose of mainshaft.jpg<br>
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            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Size: 120690 bytes<br>
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            <div dir="ltr">URL: &lt;<a
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            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Message: 3<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">From: DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">"[email-masked]"</a> &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;,<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">"[email-masked]"</a> &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    experience - second attempt, part 1<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Message-ID: &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> It has been many years (&lt; 25, I think)
              but I once rebuilt a TR6 transmission with a used
              mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder like that.?
              There was a thrust washer that fitted up against
              shoulder.? A few years later I was rebuilding it again.?
              The thrust washer had broken into parts.? My solution was
              to buy a new mainshaft (that is a story in itself) along
              with some other parts.? 25 years later that part is still
              soldering on.? (I had to rebuild again for layshaft issues
              but that's unrelated)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">I would be very reluctant to reuse that
              mainshaft.? The raised ridge is not what worries me it is
              the fact that the edge of the grove is not square and the
              thrust applied by the helical gears will point load the
              split collars and they will fail again.? The TR6
              transmission si probably different but the basic design is
              similar and the force loading is also similar.? Helical
              gears are sued to keep tooth noise down but the fact that
              they are wound in a helical manner around the axis means
              the forces applied to the gears is at an angle to that
              axis.? Part of that force is used to rotate the shaft but
              the other is applied to the bearings at either end of the
              transmission meaning the split collars in your case will
              take up that force as an interface between the shaft and
              the bearing inner race.? I don't have enough experience to
              say whether the transmission will last a week, month, year
              or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more
              confidence in a new, quality shaft.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Dave <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">-----Original Message-----<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:46 pm<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding experience - second attempt, part
              1<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">I tried to send this message yesterday but it
              has not appeared yet so I am resending it - guessing that
              I may have had too many (or too large of) images.? ?I'll
              splint it into two messages and reduce the image file
              sizes - hopefully this message will go thru.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">I'll start off with a quick comment - as I
              started to type the e-mail address, up popped suggestions
              that started with TR.? ?Third on the list was "TR3driver"
              - the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I sincerely hope
              someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my
              questions.? ?I'm not on any other Triumph related groups -
              you are all I've got for input.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">I am in the process of reassembling (or
              trying to) my GT6 transmission - please don't tune out,
              conceptually the trans is similar to the big Triumphs.?
              ?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split
              collars had spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in
              the collars and raising an edge on the main shaft.? What
              keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is in
              motion?? I am focused on preventing this problem in the
              future.? When I rotate first gear on the shaft, the split
              washers rotate with the shaft.? I am wondering if the
              tolerance stack up of the 2nd &amp; 3rd gear bushings,
              spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was
              too large allowing first gear to push the split collars
              forward on the shaft.? What else could cause this
              rotation/wear???<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised
              edge from the spinning split washers, good &amp; worn
              split washers, good split washers nested in the first gear
              pocket.? ? Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this
              message.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">** <a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>
              **<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Donate: <a
                href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Archive:
              <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>? <a
                href="http://www.team.net/archive" rel="nofollow"
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            <div dir="ltr">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
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            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Message: 4<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">From: DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">"[email-masked]"</a> &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;,<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">"[email-masked]"</a> &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">    experience - 2nd attempt, part2<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Message-ID: &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> That looks like the heat treated, hardened?
              surface is starting to break up.? That is what happened to
              my layshaft.? Another reason to abandon that mainshaft.?
              If you have an alternate bearing combination that doesn't
              relay on that surface for the bearing rollers then the
              hardened surface is no longer critical.? But this is above
              my pay grade.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous
              photos.? The split washers transfer the lateral forces
              from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but the end result
              is the same, with a compromised groove surface like that
              the split collars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the
              grove to clean up the shoulder will the split washers stay
              in place?? If they fall out you have serious problems.?
              Even if they stay in place will it increase backlash?? Can
              you get oversized split collars?? Make shims?? All this is
              above my pay grade.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Dave <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">-----Original Message-----<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:52 pm<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd attempt, part2<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Next question - my (new) replacement main
              shaft is oversize in a couple of places.? ?The diameter
              under the 2nd &amp; 3rd gear bushings (I have opened up
              the bushings to only have a light interference fit).?
              Worst is the diameter under the rear bearing.? I can
              install the bearing but I have to hammer it ***hard*** to
              get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing
              - guessing I might change the inner race diameter a
              miniscule amount.? I'm thinking of sending this main shaft
              back to Spitbits and reusing my old main shaft.? I have
              cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my lathe.?
              The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the
              cage bearing rides in the input shaft - this damage is
              only on one side of the shaft and only on half of the
              bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to replace
              the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the
              surface inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear
              also.? The max amount of surface missing on the nose of
              the old m<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"> ain shaft is 0.003 in diameter.? ?Images:?
              exploded view from Bentley? manual, nose of the old, worn
              mainshaft<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in
              digest mode awaiting your responses.? Trying to formulate
              a new plan of attack for Monday morning.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">** <a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>
              **<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Donate: <a
                href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="nofollow"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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            <div dir="ltr">Archive:
              <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>? <a
                href="http://www.team.net/archive" rel="nofollow"
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            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Triumphs mailing list<br>
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            <div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39<br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">****************************************<br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 87107 ph 505-352-1378  My World go here: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/">WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/</a></pre>
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From: Bill Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 10:24:28 -0400

--===============3200143876328386209==

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John rebuilt my OD tranny several years ago and I'm very happy with the
quality work he did for me....plus, he was a pleasure to talk to when I
dropped my transmission off and picked it up.

Bill
'59 TR3A
TS63273L (now O)

On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 10:18=E2=80=AFAM David P <[email-masked]=
> wrote:

> Oxford, CT called Quantum Mechanics. He is a math nut and works with the =
MG
> club and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He was making TR main shafts
> after he found no saleable units.
>
> Joe Mato
> 62 Wood Road
> Redding, CT 06896
> 917 232 1555
>
>
> [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
>     <CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=[email-masked]=
>
> <CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"
>
> I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so I a=
m
> spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and raising an ed=
ge
> in motion?  I am focused on preventing this problem in the future.  When =
I
> rotate first gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the shaft. =
 I
> spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was too large allowi=
ng
> first gear to push the split collars forward on the shaft.  What else cou=
ld
> Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning spli=
t
> washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in the firs=
t
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/at=
tachment-0001.htm
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/at=
tachment-0003.jpg
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/at=
tachment-0004.jpg
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/at=
tachment-0005.jpg
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"
>
> Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a couple o=
f
> the bushings to only have a light interference fit).  Worst is the diamet=
er
> under the rear bearing.  I can install the bearing but I have to hammer i=
t
> ***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing =
-
> lathe.  The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage beari=
ng
> rides in the input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the shaft a=
nd
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/at=
tachment-0001.htm
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/at=
tachment-0002.jpg
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/at=
tachment-0003.jpg
> To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>,
>     "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> <
> [email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"
>
> transmission with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder li=
ke
> that.? There was a thrust washer that fitted up against shoulder.? A few
> years later I was rebuilding it again.? The thrust washer had broken into
> parts.? My solution was to buy a new mainshaft (that is a story in itself=
)
> along with some other parts.? 25 years later that part is still soldering
> on.? (I had to rebuild again for layshaft issues but that's unrelated)
> I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.? The raised ridge is
> not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of the grove is not squa=
re
> and the thrust applied by the helical gears will point load the split
> collars and they will fail again.? The TR6 transmission si probably
> different but the basic design is similar and the force loading is also
> similar.? Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise down but the fact th=
at
> they are wound in a helical manner around the axis means the forces appli=
ed
> to the gears is at an angle to that axis.? Part of that force is used to
> rotate the shaft but the other is applied to the bearings at either end o=
f
> the transmission meaning the split collars in your case will take up that
> force as an interface between the shaft and the bearing inner race.? I
> don't have enough experience to say whether the transmission will last a
> week, month, year or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more
> confidence in a new, quality shaft.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so I a=
m
> images.? ?I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the image file size=
s
> address, up popped suggestions that started with TR.? ?Third on the list
> was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I sincerely hope
> someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my questions.? ?I'm not on
> Triumphs.? ?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars ha=
d
> spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and raising an ed=
ge
> on the main shaft.? What keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is
> in motion?? I am focused on preventing this problem in the future.? When =
I
> rotate first gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the shaft.?=
 I
> spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was too large allowi=
ng
> first gear to push the split collars forward on the shaft.? What else cou=
ld
> cause this rotation/wear???
> Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning spli=
t
> washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in the firs=
t
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230320/3ea8a84d/at=
tachment-0001.htm
> To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>,
>     "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> <
> [email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"
>
> That looks like the heat treated, hardened? surface is starting to break
> up.? That is what happened to my layshaft.? Another reason to abandon tha=
t
> mainshaft.? If you have an alternate bearing combination that doesn't rel=
ay
> on that surface for the bearing rollers then the hardened surface is no
> longer critical.? But this is above my pay grade.
>
> transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but the
> end result is the same, with a compromised groove surface like that the
> split collars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the grove to clean up
> the shoulder will the split washers stay in place?? If they fall out you
> have serious problems.? Even if they stay in place will it increase
> backlash?? Can you get oversized split collars?? Make shims?? All this is
> above my pay grade.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2n=
d
> attempt, part2
>
> Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a couple o=
f
> places.? ?The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I have opened u=
p
> the bushings to only have a light interference fit).? Worst is the diamet=
er
> under the rear bearing.? I can install the bearing but I have to hammer i=
t
> ***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing =
-
> guessing I might change the inner race diameter a miniscule amount.? I'm
> main shaft.? I have cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my
> lathe.? The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage beari=
ng
> rides in the input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the shaft a=
nd
> only on half of the bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to
> responses.? Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday morning.
>
> URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230320/f8dfe8ba/at=
tachment-0001.htm
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/arch=
ive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/frogey=
[email-masked]
>
> --
> Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 87107 ph 505-352=
-1378  My World go here: WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

--000000000000cc3edd05f769cd5a
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">John rebuilt my OD tranny several years ago and I&#39;m ve=
ry happy with the quality work he did for me....plus, he was a pleasure to =
talk to when I dropped my transmission off and picked it up.<div><br></div>=
<div>Bill</div><div>&#39;59 TR3A</div><div>TS63273L (now O)</div></div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Ma=
r 21, 2023 at 10:18=E2=80=AFAM David P &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:frogeye@porter=
scustom.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    <p>I second that notion.. dp<br>
    </p>
    <div>On 3/21/2023 4:56 AM, JOSEPH MATO
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div style=3D"font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px=
">
        <div>
          <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi. John Esposito is the
            best LBC mechanic in CT and he has a shop in Oxford, CT
            called Quantum Mechanics. He is a math nut and works with
            the MG club and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He was
            making TR main shafts after he found no saleable units.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Joe Mato
            <div>62 Wood Road</div>
            <div>Redding, CT 06896</div>
            <div>917 232 1555</div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div id=3D"m_-8484417080828638308ydp50442b40yahoo_quoted_0249459439">
        <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Aria=
l,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
          <div> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 02:49:34 PM EDT,
            <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>
            <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@=
autox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
              Wide Web, visit<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://autox.tea=
m.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or
              body &#39;help&#39; to<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs-request=
@autox.team.net</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">You can reach the person managing the list at<=
br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs-owner@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line
              so it is more specific<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">than &quot;Re: Contents of Triumphs digest...&=
quot;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 1. Calling anyone with transmission
              rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 second attempt, part 1 (a=
ribert
              neumann)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 2. Calling anyone with transmission
              rebuilding experience - 2nd<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 attempt, part2 (aribert n=
eumann)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 3. Re: Calling anyone with transmission
              rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 second attempt, part 1 (D=
AVID MASSEY)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 4. Re: Calling anyone with transmission
              rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2nd attempt, part2 (DAVID=
 MASSEY)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">----------------------------------------------=
------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 1<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:46:53 -0400<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ar=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 second attempt, part 1<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID:<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=3DZq4A@mai=
l.gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_43=
2Y8LqZ=[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;utf-=
8&quot;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">I tried to send this message yesterday but it
              has not appeared yet so I am<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">resending it - guessing that I may have had
              too many (or too large of)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">images.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll splint it into two mess=
ages and
              reduce the image file sizes<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">- hopefully this message will go thru.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;ll start off with a quick comment - as I
              started to type the e-mail<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">address, up popped suggestions that started
              with TR.=C2=A0 Third on the list<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">was &quot;TR3driver&quot; - the late Randall (=
Young, I
              think).=C2=A0 I sincerely hope<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">someone will &quot;fill his shoes&quot; with r=
espect to
              my questions.=C2=A0 I&#39;m not on<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">any other Triumph related groups - you are
              all I&#39;ve got for input.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">I am in the process of reassembling (or
              trying to) my GT6 transmission -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">please don&#39;t tune out, conceptually the tr=
ans
              is similar to the big<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Triumphs.=C2=A0 On dismantling my trans, I
              observed that the split collars had<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in
              the collars and raising an edge<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">on the main shaft.=C2=A0 What keeps the collar=
s
              from rotating when 1st gear is<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">in motion?=C2=A0 I am focused on preventing th=
is
              problem in the future.=C2=A0 When I<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">rotate first gear on the shaft, the split
              washers rotate with the shaft.=C2=A0 I<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">am wondering if the tolerance stack up of the
              2nd &amp; 3rd gear bushings,<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split
              collars) was too large allowing<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">first gear to push the split collars forward
              on the shaft.=C2=A0 What else could<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">cause this rotation/wear?<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised
              edge from the spinning split<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">washers, good &amp; worn split washers, good
              split washers nested in the first<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">gear pocket.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Off in digest mode p=
reparing
              part 2 of this message.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipe=
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nts/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0001.htm</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
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            </div>
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            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Name: GT6 old mainshaft with ridge.jpg<br>
            </div>
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            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Size: 145269 bytes<br>
            </div>
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            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipe=
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follow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachme=
nts/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0003.jpg</a>&gt;<br>
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            </div>
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            <div dir=3D"ltr">Name: GT6 worn split collars.jpg<br>
            </div>
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            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Size: 205366 bytes<br>
            </div>
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            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipe=
rmail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0004.jpg" rel=3D"no=
follow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachme=
nts/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0004.jpg</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Name: GT6 split collars in 1st gear.jpg<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Type: image/jpeg<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Size: 123314 bytes<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Desc: not available<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipe=
rmail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0005.jpg" rel=3D"no=
follow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachme=
nts/20230319/d071644c/attachment-0005.jpg</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 2<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0400<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ar=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding experience -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2nd attempt, part2<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID:<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CAGkV=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank">CAGkVM2_qddwDt8R2M5Wx1mGzUgXgX1kQH6noupRw_yA7JqY-BQ@=
mail.gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;utf-=
8&quot;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Next question - my (new) replacement main
              shaft is oversize in a couple of<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">places.=C2=A0 The diameter under the 2nd &amp;=
 3rd
              gear bushings (I have opened up<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">the bushings to only have a light
              interference fit).=C2=A0 Worst is the diameter<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">under the rear bearing.=C2=A0 I can install th=
e
              bearing but I have to hammer it<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft -
              can&#39;t be good for the bearing -<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">guessing I might change the inner race
              diameter a miniscule amount.=C2=A0 I&#39;m<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">thinking of sending this main shaft back to
              Spitbits and reusing my old<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">main shaft.=C2=A0 I have cleaned up the groove=
 for
              the split collars on my<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">lathe.=C2=A0 The other damage on the shaft is =
on
              the nose where the cage bearing<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">rides in the input shaft - this damage is
              only on one side of the shaft and<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">only on half of the bearing surface
              (fore/aft).=C2=A0 I am already going to<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">replace the cage bearing with a bearing
              bronze bushing since the surface<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear
              also.=C2=A0 The max amount of<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">surface missing on the nose of the old main
              shaft is 0.003 in diameter.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> Images:=C2=A0 exploded view from Bentley=C2=
=A0 manual,
              nose of the old, worn<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">mainshaft<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in
              digest mode awaiting your<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">responses.=C2=A0 Trying to formulate a new pla=
n of
              attack for Monday morning.<br>
            </div>
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            </div>
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            </div>
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            </div>
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            </div>
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            <div dir=3D"ltr">Name: GT6 Wear on nose of mainshaft.jpg<br>
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            <div dir=3D"ltr">Desc: not available<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipe=
rmail/triumphs/attachments/20230319/a2533ad4/attachment-0003.jpg" rel=3D"no=
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nts/20230319/a2533ad4/attachment-0003.jpg</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 3<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)<br=
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">From: DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dave1=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank">&quot;[email-masked]&quot;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arib=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;,<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">&quot;[email-masked]&quot;</a> &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 experience - second attempt=
, part 1<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:2090616878.2=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">209=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;utf-=
8&quot;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> It has been many years (&lt; 25, I think)
              but I once rebuilt a TR6 transmission with a used
              mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder like that.?
              There was a thrust washer that fitted up against
              shoulder.? A few years later I was rebuilding it again.?
              The thrust washer had broken into parts.? My solution was
              to buy a new mainshaft (that is a story in itself) along
              with some other parts.? 25 years later that part is still
              soldering on.? (I had to rebuild again for layshaft issues
              but that&#39;s unrelated)<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">I would be very reluctant to reuse that
              mainshaft.? The raised ridge is not what worries me it is
              the fact that the edge of the grove is not square and the
              thrust applied by the helical gears will point load the
              split collars and they will fail again.? The TR6
              transmission si probably different but the basic design is
              similar and the force loading is also similar.? Helical
              gears are sued to keep tooth noise down but the fact that
              they are wound in a helical manner around the axis means
              the forces applied to the gears is at an angle to that
              axis.? Part of that force is used to rotate the shaft but
              the other is applied to the bearings at either end of the
              transmission meaning the split collars in your case will
              take up that force as an interface between the shaft and
              the bearing inner race.? I don&#39;t have enough experience t=
o
              say whether the transmission will last a week, month, year
              or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more
              confidence in a new, quality shaft.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Dave <br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">-----Original Message-----<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ar=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:46 pm<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding experience - second attempt, part
              1<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">I tried to send this message yesterday but it
              has not appeared yet so I am resending it - guessing that
              I may have had too many (or too large of) images.? ?I&#39;ll
              splint it into two messages and reduce the image file
              sizes - hopefully this message will go thru.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;ll start off with a quick comment - as I
              started to type the e-mail address, up popped suggestions
              that started with TR.? ?Third on the list was &quot;TR3driver=
&quot;
              - the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I sincerely hope
              someone will &quot;fill his shoes&quot; with respect to my
              questions.? ?I&#39;m not on any other Triumph related groups =
-
              you are all I&#39;ve got for input.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">I am in the process of reassembling (or
              trying to) my GT6 transmission - please don&#39;t tune out,
              conceptually the trans is similar to the big Triumphs.?
              ?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split
              collars had spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in
              the collars and raising an edge on the main shaft.? What
              keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is in
              motion?? I am focused on preventing this problem in the
              future.? When I rotate first gear on the shaft, the split
              washers rotate with the shaft.? I am wondering if the
              tolerance stack up of the 2nd &amp; 3rd gear bushings,
              spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was
              too large allowing first gear to push the split collars
              forward on the shaft.? What else could cause this
              rotation/wear???<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised
              edge from the spinning split washers, good &amp; worn
              split washers, good split washers nested in the first gear
              pocket.? ? Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this
              message.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>
              **<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.=
html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a=
><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Archive:
              <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>? <a href=3D"http://www.t=
eam.net/archive" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/arc=
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            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 4<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)<br=
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">From: DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dave1=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank">&quot;[email-masked]&quot;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arib=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;,<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">&quot;[email-masked]&quot;</a> &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 experience - 2nd attempt, p=
art2<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:583075131.25=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">5830=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;utf-=
8&quot;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> That looks like the heat treated, hardened?
              surface is starting to break up.? That is what happened to
              my layshaft.? Another reason to abandon that mainshaft.?
              If you have an alternate bearing combination that doesn&#39;t
              relay on that surface for the bearing rollers then the
              hardened surface is no longer critical.? But this is above
              my pay grade.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous
              photos.? The split washers transfer the lateral forces
              from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but the end result
              is the same, with a compromised groove surface like that
              the split collars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the
              grove to clean up the shoulder will the split washers stay
              in place?? If they fall out you have serious problems.?
              Even if they stay in place will it increase backlash?? Can
              you get oversized split collars?? Make shims?? All this is
              above my pay grade.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Dave <br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> <br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">-----Original Message-----<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">From: aribert neumann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ar=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:52 pm<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
              transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd attempt, part2<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Next question - my (new) replacement main
              shaft is oversize in a couple of places.? ?The diameter
              under the 2nd &amp; 3rd gear bushings (I have opened up
              the bushings to only have a light interference fit).?
              Worst is the diameter under the rear bearing.? I can
              install the bearing but I have to hammer it ***hard*** to
              get it to fit on the shaft - can&#39;t be good for the bearin=
g
              - guessing I might change the inner race diameter a
              miniscule amount.? I&#39;m thinking of sending this main shaf=
t
              back to Spitbits and reusing my old main shaft.? I have
              cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my lathe.?
              The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the
              cage bearing rides in the input shaft - this damage is
              only on one side of the shaft and only on half of the
              bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to replace
              the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the
              surface inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear
              also.? The max amount of surface missing on the nose of
              the old m<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"> ain shaft is 0.003 in diameter.? ?Images:?
              exploded view from Bentley? manual, nose of the old, worn
              mainshaft<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in
              digest mode awaiting your responses.? Trying to formulate
              a new plan of attack for Monday morning.<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>
              **<br>
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            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.=
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            <div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br>
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            <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
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            <div dir=3D"ltr">______________________________________________=
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            <div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br>
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            <div dir=3D"ltr">End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39<br>
            </div>
            <div dir=3D"ltr">****************************************<br>
            </div>
          </div>
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      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <pre>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
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    <pre cols=3D"72">--=20
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 87107 ph 505-352-1=
378  My World go here: <a href=3D"http://WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/" target=3D"_b=
lank">WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/</a></pre>
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** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@au=
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