Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39

From: aribert neumann <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 21:45:59 -0400

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--00000000000049a03f05f75f34d1

>
> Dave:   Thank you for your thoughtfull reply!   The groove in the main
> shaft that locates the split collars is not as bad as it looks - most of
> the taper turns out to be material worn off of the split collars and welded
> onto the main shaft.  I have cleaned up the groove, to the same dimesion as
> the groove on the new main shaft I bought (that has the oversize issues)
> and that took out all the taper.

> The concern I still have is *how to prevent the split collars from
> spinning in the future* to prevent this from happening again - either on
> the old shaft or on a new shaft.   The split collars are not bearings or
> bushings and if they keep spinning in the future I'll see the same problem.
>
>
>
>
> From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
> To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <
> [email-masked]>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> second attempt, part 1
> It has been many years (< 25, I think) but I once rebuilt a TR6
> transmission with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder like
> that.  There was a thrust washer that fitted up against shoulder.  A few
> years later I was rebuilding it again.  The thrust washer had broken into
> parts.  My solution was to buy a new mainshaft (that is a story in itself)
> along with some other parts.  25 years later that part is still soldering
> on.  (I had to rebuild again for layshaft issues but that's unrelated)
>
> I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.  The raised ridge is
> not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of the grove is not square
> and the thrust applied by the helical gears will point load the split
> collars and they will fail again.  The TR6 transmission si probably
> different but the basic design is similar and the force loading is also
> similar.  Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise down but the fact that
> they are wound in a helical manner around the axis means the forces applied
> to the gears is at an angle to that axis.  Part of that force is used to
> rotate the shaft but the other is applied to the bearings at either end of
> the transmission meaning the split collars in your case will take up that
> force as an interface between the shaft and the bearing inner race.  I
> don't have enough experience to say whether the transmission will last a
> week, month, year or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more
> confidence in a new, quality shaft.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
> To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <
> [email-masked]>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> 2nd attempt, part2
> That looks like the heat treated, hardened  surface is starting to break
> up.  That is what happened to my layshaft.  Another reason to abandon that
> mainshaft.  If you have an alternate bearing combination that doesn't relay
> on that surface for the bearing rollers then the hardened surface is no
> longer critical.  But this is above my pay grade.
>
> BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.  The split washers
> transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but the
> end result is the same, with a compromised groove surface like that the
> split collars will fail prematurely.   If you open the grove to clean up
> the shoulder will the split washers stay in place?  If they fall out you
> have serious problems.  Even if they stay in place will it increase
> backlash?  Can you get oversized split collars?  Make shims?  All this is
> above my pay grade.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex">Dave:=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank you for your thoughtfull reply!=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The groove in the main shaft that locates the split collars is=
 not as bad as it looks - most of the taper turns out to be material worn o=
ff of the split collars and welded onto the main shaft.=C2=A0 I have cleane=
d up the groove, to the same dimesion as the groove on the new main shaft I=
 bought (that has the oversize issues) and that took out all the taper.=C2=
=A0 </blockquote><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex">The concern I still have is=C2=A0<b>how to prevent the split c=
ollars from spinning in the future</b>=C2=A0to prevent this from happening =
again - either on the old shaft or on a new shaft.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The split co=
llars are not bearings or bushings and if they keep spinning in the future =
I&#39;ll see the same problem.<br><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<br><br><br>From:=
=C2=A0DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To:=C2=A0&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:aribertn=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &qu=
ot;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@au=
tox.team.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:=C2=A0<br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>=
Date:=C2=A0Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [TR] =
Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - second attempt, pa=
rt 1<br>
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">It has been many years (&lt; 25, I think) but I once=
 rebuilt a TR6 transmission with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on =
a shoulder like that.=C2=A0 There was a thrust washer that fitted up agains=
t shoulder.=C2=A0 A few years later I was rebuilding it again.=C2=A0 The th=
rust washer had broken into parts.=C2=A0 My solution was to buy a new mains=
haft (that is a story in itself) along with some other parts.=C2=A0 25 year=
s later that part is still soldering on.=C2=A0 (I had to rebuild again for =
layshaft issues but that&#39;s unrelated)</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.=C2=
=A0 The raised ridge is not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of=
 the grove is not square and the thrust applied by the helical gears will p=
oint load the split collars and they will fail again.=C2=A0 The TR6 transmi=
ssion si probably different but the basic design is similar and the force l=
oading is also similar.=C2=A0 Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise do=
wn but the fact that they are wound in a helical manner around the axis mea=
ns the forces applied to the gears is at an angle to that axis.=C2=A0 Part =
of that force is used to rotate the shaft but the other is applied to the b=
earings at either end of the transmission meaning the split collars in your=
 case will take up that force as an interface between the shaft and the bea=
ring inner race.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t have enough experience to say whether th=
e transmission will last a week, month, year or 10 years with that shaft bu=
t I would have much more confidence in a new, quality shaft.<br>
</font></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div><font size=3D"4">Dave <br>
</font></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black"><br>
</span></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
 size=3D"2"><div id=3D"m_6593041711186351867yiv0386429821"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div><br>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br>
</div>

<div><br></div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div><br>
</div>
</div>

</div>
</div>

</div></font></div></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br=
>From:=C2=A0DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To:=C2=A0&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">tri=
[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:=C2=A0<br>Bcc:=
=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)<br>Subject:=C2=
=A0Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd at=
tempt, part2<br>
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">That looks like the heat treated, hardened=C2=A0 sur=
face is starting to break up.=C2=A0 That is what happened to my layshaft.=
=C2=A0 Another reason to abandon that mainshaft.=C2=A0 If you have an alter=
nate bearing combination that doesn&#39;t relay on that surface for the bea=
ring rollers then the hardened surface is no longer critical.=C2=A0 But thi=
s is above my pay grade.<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.=C2=
=A0 The split washers transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to t=
he mainshaft but the end result is the same, with a compromised groove surf=
ace like that the split collars will fail prematurely.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you o=
pen the grove to clean up the shoulder will the split washers stay in place=
?=C2=A0 If they fall out you have serious problems.=C2=A0 Even if they stay=
 in place will it increase backlash?=C2=A0 Can you get oversized split coll=
ars?=C2=A0 Make shims?=C2=A0 All this is above my pay grade.<br>
</font></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div><font size=3D"4">Dave <br>
</font></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black"><br>
</span></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
 size=3D"2"><div id=3D"m_6593041711186351867yiv7397812571"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">

<div><br>
</div>

<div><br>
</div>
</div>

</div>
</div>

</div></font></div></div><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

--===============6926054872381261922==--

---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 12:53:28 +0000 (UTC)

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 Why are they spinning?=C2=A0 It seems to me that they are trapped between =
the mainshaft and the synchro hub with has splines which engage the splines=
 on the mainshaft.=C2=A0 Is the synchronizer engaging them in some way?=C2=
=A0 I guess I'm not seeing something looking at the pictures.
I'm afraid I can be of no more help.=C2=A0 I've reached the limit of my exp=
erience.=C2=A0 Good luck
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: aribert neumann <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Sent: Mon, Mar 20, 2023 8:45 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39

Dave:=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank you for your thoughtfull reply!=C2=A0 =C2=A0The gro=
ove in the main shaft that locates the split collars is not as bad as it lo=
oks - most of the taper turns out to be material worn off of the split coll=
ars and welded onto the main shaft.=C2=A0 I have cleaned up the groove, to =
the same dimesion as the groove on the new main shaft I bought (that has th=
e oversize issues) and that took out all the taper.=C2=A0=20
=C2=A0

The concern I still have is=C2=A0how to prevent the split collars from spin=
ning in the future=C2=A0to prevent this from happening again - either on th=
e old shaft or on a new shaft.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The split collars are not bearin=
gs or bushings and if they keep spinning in the future I'll see the same pr=
oblem.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

From:=C2=A0DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
To:=C2=A0"[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]=
t" <[email-masked]>
Cc:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experien=
ce - second attempt, part 1
 It has been many years (< 25, I think) but I once rebuilt a TR6 transmissi=
on with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder like that.=C2=
=A0 There was a thrust washer that fitted up against shoulder.=C2=A0 A few =
years later I was rebuilding it again.=C2=A0 The thrust washer had broken i=
nto parts.=C2=A0 My solution was to buy a new mainshaft (that is a story in=
 itself) along with some other parts.=C2=A0 25 years later that part is sti=
ll soldering on.=C2=A0 (I had to rebuild again for layshaft issues but that=
's unrelated)
I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.=C2=A0 The raised ridge i=
s not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of the grove is not squa=
re and the thrust applied by the helical gears will point load the split co=
llars and they will fail again.=C2=A0 The TR6 transmission si probably diff=
erent but the basic design is similar and the force loading is also similar=
.=C2=A0 Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise down but the fact that t=
hey are wound in a helical manner around the axis means the forces applied =
to the gears is at an angle to that axis.=C2=A0 Part of that force is used =
to rotate the shaft but the other is applied to the bearings at either end =
of the transmission meaning the split collars in your case will take up tha=
t force as an interface between the shaft and the bearing inner race.=C2=A0=
 I don't have enough experience to say whether the transmission will last a=
 week, month, year or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more c=
onfidence in a new, quality shaft.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
To:=C2=A0"[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]=
t" <[email-masked]>
Cc:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experien=
ce - 2nd attempt, part2
 That looks like the heat treated, hardened=C2=A0 surface is starting to br=
eak up.=C2=A0 That is what happened to my layshaft.=C2=A0 Another reason to=
 abandon that mainshaft.=C2=A0 If you have an alternate bearing combination=
 that doesn't relay on that surface for the bearing rollers then the harden=
ed surface is no longer critical.=C2=A0 But this is above my pay grade.

BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.=C2=A0 The split washers =
transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but the e=
nd result is the same, with a compromised groove surface like that the spli=
t collars will fail prematurely.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you open the grove to clean=
 up the shoulder will the split washers stay in place?=C2=A0 If they fall o=
ut you have serious problems.=C2=A0 Even if they stay in place will it incr=
ease backlash?=C2=A0 Can you get oversized split collars?=C2=A0 Make shims?=
=C2=A0 All this is above my pay grade.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs=C2=A0 http://www.team.net/a=
rchive

[email-masked]

------=_Part_3083713_51931943.1679403208376
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Why are they spinning?&nbsp; It seems to me that the=
y are trapped between the mainshaft and the synchro hub with has splines wh=
ich engage the splines on the mainshaft.&nbsp; Is the synchronizer engaging=
 them in some way?&nbsp; I guess I'm not seeing something looking at the pi=
ctures.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">I'm afraid I can be of no more help.&nbsp; I've reach=
ed the limit of my experience.&nbsp; Good luck<br>
</font></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div><font size=3D"4">Dave <br>
</font></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"><=
br>
</span></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
 size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: aribert neumann &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: [email-masked]<br>
Sent: Mon, Mar 20, 2023 8:45 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv7323096329">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"yiv7323096329gmail_quote"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class=
=3D"yiv7323096329gmail_quote">Dave:&nbsp; &nbsp;Thank you for your thoughtf=
ull reply!&nbsp; &nbsp;The groove in the main shaft that locates the split =
collars is not as bad as it looks - most of the taper turns out to be mater=
ial worn off of the split collars and welded onto the main shaft.&nbsp; I h=
ave cleaned up the groove, to the same dimesion as the groove on the new ma=
in shaft I bought (that has the oversize issues) and that took out all the =
taper.&nbsp; </blockquote>
<div>&nbsp;<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class=3D"yiv7323096329gmail_quote">The concern=
 I still have is&nbsp;<b>how to prevent the split collars from spinning in =
the future</b>&nbsp;to prevent this from happening again - either on the ol=
d shaft or on a new shaft.&nbsp; &nbsp;The split collars are not bearings o=
r bushings and if they keep spinning in the future I'll see the same proble=
m.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
<br>
<br>
From:&nbsp;DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:dave1massey=
@cs.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To:&nbsp;"<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" ymailto=3D"mailto:aribert=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">aribertn@=
gmail.com</a>" &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" ymailto=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" ymailt=
o=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:trium=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>" &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noo=
pener noreferrer" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
<br>
Cc:&nbsp;<br>
Bcc:&nbsp;<br>
Date:&nbsp;Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)<br>
Subject:&nbsp;Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experien=
ce - second attempt, part 1<br>

<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div> <font size=3D"3">It has been many years (&lt; 25, I think) but I once=
 rebuilt a TR6 transmission with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on =
a shoulder like that.&nbsp; There was a thrust washer that fitted up agains=
t shoulder.&nbsp; A few years later I was rebuilding it again.&nbsp; The th=
rust washer had broken into parts.&nbsp; My solution was to buy a new mains=
haft (that is a story in itself) along with some other parts.&nbsp; 25 year=
s later that part is still soldering on.&nbsp; (I had to rebuild again for =
layshaft issues but that's unrelated)</font></div>

</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.&nb=
sp; The raised ridge is not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of=
 the grove is not square and the thrust applied by the helical gears will p=
oint load the split collars and they will fail again.&nbsp; The TR6 transmi=
ssion si probably different but the basic design is similar and the force l=
oading is also similar.&nbsp; Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise do=
wn but the fact that they are wound in a helical manner around the axis mea=
ns the forces applied to the gears is at an angle to that axis.&nbsp; Part =
of that force is used to rotate the shaft but the other is applied to the b=
earings at either end of the transmission meaning the split collars in your=
 case will take up that force as an interface between the shaft and the bea=
ring inner race.&nbsp; I don't have enough experience to say whether the tr=
ansmission will last a week, month, year or 10 years with that shaft but I =
would have much more confidence in a new, quality shaft.<br>

</font></div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both;">

<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

</font></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"><br=

</span></div>

<br>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><fo=
nt size=3D"2">
<div id=3D"yiv7323096329m_6593041711186351867yiv0386429821">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><br>

</div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div><br>

</div>

<div><br>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>
</font></div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
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Date:&nbsp;Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)<br>
Subject:&nbsp;Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experien=
ce - 2nd attempt, part2<br>

<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div> <font size=3D"3">That looks like the heat treated, hardened&nbsp; sur=
face is starting to break up.&nbsp; That is what happened to my layshaft.&n=
bsp; Another reason to abandon that mainshaft.&nbsp; If you have an alterna=
te bearing combination that doesn't relay on that surface for the bearing r=
ollers then the hardened surface is no longer critical.&nbsp; But this is a=
bove my pay grade.<br>

</font></div>

</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.&nb=
sp; The split washers transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to t=
he mainshaft but the end result is the same, with a compromised groove surf=
ace like that the split collars will fail prematurely.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you o=
pen the grove to clean up the shoulder will the split washers stay in place=
?&nbsp; If they fall out you have serious problems.&nbsp; Even if they stay=
 in place will it increase backlash?&nbsp; Can you get oversized split coll=
ars?&nbsp; Make shims?&nbsp; All this is above my pay grade.<br>

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</blockquote></div>
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