Subject: Re: [TR] difference between these two washers

From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 19:46:26 -0600

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Carroll Smith, perhaps?  :)

(He did indeed work with Caroll Shelby, though.)

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 3:04 PM Dave MacKay <[email-masked]> wrote:

> >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:31:17 -0800
>
> >From: Sujit Roy <[email-masked]>
>
> >To: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
>
> >Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
>
> >
>
> >Besides, looks, what are the differences between these washers? Why use
> one compared to the other? I typically see the left one used for lighter
> loads, but never under a load which needs torquing up.
>
> >Sujit
>
> >
>
> >Sujit Roy
>
> >Cupertino, California
>
> >URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230203/1f2337ba/at=
tachment-0001.jpg
> >
>
>
>
> On pp 116-117 of Carroll Shelby=E2=80=99s *Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plu=
mbing
> Handbook*, Shelby discusses the lock washers including star washers (like
> the one on the left of the image) and spring lock washers (like the one o=
n
> the right of the image).
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CLock washers
>
>
>
> There are a great many locking devices on the market today. The most
> popular is also the least effective --- the lock washer. There are three
> basic types of lock washers: the spring washer, the wave washer and the
> serrated, or star, washer.
>
>
>
> Nether the spring washer nor the wave washer do anything worth talking
> about --- other than to provide the user with a false sense of security.
> Think about it for a moment. From experience, you know that it takes very
> little load to compress a spring washer. For example, the spring washer
> will be completely closed long before we reach recommended torque when
> tightening a bolt. Once compressed, the spring washer is nothing but a fl=
at
> washer. If, for whatever reason, a bolt should loosen to the point where
> the spring washer opens enough to become a spring, there was too little
> residual stress in the assembled bolt for any sort of safety. In other
> words, the thing wasn=E2=80=99t tightened sufficiently. Exactly the same =
is true of
> the wave washer which is, for some reason or other, popular in Germany. I=
f
> you decide to use a spring lock washer, a flat washer should be placed
> between the lock washer and the work surface to prevent damage to the
> surface. This in not necessary with the wave washer.
>
>
>
> I am willing to admit that there are installations where the serrated or
> star washer can be effective . These installations are limited to the
> smaller sizes and almost always have to do with machine screws bearing on=
 a
> rather soft surface --- aluminum or plastic, for example. The teeth of th=
e
> washer can and do bite into the surfaces of soft materials and offer
> reasonably positive protection against rotation. They are available with
> either internal or external teeth, and also as coned washers for
> countersunk bolts.
>
>
>
> I try not to use lock washers. I use prevailing torque-type self-locking
> nuts on all through holes and check or jam nuts to lock rod end bearings
> and threaded adjusters. With blind holes, if I do not trust the thread
> portion of a properly tightened bolt, I use the appropriate grade of
> Loctite and/or safety wire. I do, however, carry a selection of aircraft
> spec (AN-935) spring lock washers [similar to the one on the right of the
> image] around with me --- just in case. I will not use industrial [rather
> than aircraft-grade] spring lock washers because they are liable to be to=
o
> brittle for my taste.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Dave MacKay
>
> 1960 TR3A (s/n 68639L)
>
> Near Toronto, Canada
>
>
> ** [email-masked] **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Car=
roll Smith, perhaps?=C2=A0 :)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sm=
all">(He did indeed work with Caroll Shelby, though.)</div></div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 3, 2=
023 at 3:04 PM Dave MacKay &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">dave@mdm=
ackay.ca</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-4639821508512855127"><div lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D=
"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127WordSectio=
n1"><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;Date: Fri, 3 Feb 20=
23 09:31:17 -0800</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;Fr=
om: Sujit Roy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPla=
inText">&gt;To: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508=
512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;Subject: [TR] difference between these two washe=
rs</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;=C2=A0</p><p clas=
s=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;Besides, looks, what are the d=
ifferences between these washers? Why use one compared to the other? I typi=
cally see the left one used for lighter loads, but never under a load which=
 needs torquing up.</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;=
Sujit</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;=C2=A0</p><p c=
lass=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;Sujit Roy</p><p class=3D"m_=
-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;Cupertino, California</p><p class=3D"=
m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">&gt;URL: &lt;<a href=3D"http://autox.te=
am.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230203/1f2337ba/attachment-0001.jpg=
" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20=
230203/1f2337ba/attachment-0001.jpg</a>&gt;</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512=
855127MsoPlainText">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainTex=
t">On pp 116-117 of Carroll Shelby=E2=80=99s <u>Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and =
Plumbing Handbook</u>, Shelby discusses the lock washers including star was=
hers (like the one on the left of the image) and spring lock washers (like =
the one on the right of the image).</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127Ms=
oPlainText">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">=E2=
=80=9CLock washers</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">=C2=
=A0</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">There are a great ma=
ny locking devices on the market today. The most popular is also the least =
effective --- the lock washer. There are three basic types of lock washers:=
 the spring washer, the wave washer and the serrated, or star, washer.</p><=
p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"m_-463=
9821508512855127MsoPlainText">Nether the spring washer nor the wave washer =
do anything worth talking about --- other than to provide the user with a f=
alse sense of security. Think about it for a moment. From experience, you k=
now that it takes very little load to compress a spring washer. For example=
, the spring washer will be completely closed long before we reach recommen=
ded torque when tightening a bolt. Once compressed, the spring washer is no=
thing but a flat washer. If, for whatever reason, a bolt should loosen to t=
he point where the spring washer opens enough to become a spring, there was=
 too little residual stress in the assembled bolt for any sort of safety. I=
n other words, the thing wasn=E2=80=99t tightened sufficiently. Exactly the=
 same is true of the wave washer which is, for some reason or other, popula=
r in Germany. If you decide to use a spring lock washer, a flat washer shou=
ld be placed between the lock washer and the work surface to prevent damage=
 to the surface. This in not necessary with the wave washer.</p><p class=3D=
"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512=
855127MsoPlainText">I am willing to admit that there are installations wher=
e the serrated or star washer can be effective . These installations are li=
mited to the smaller sizes and almost always have to do with machine screws=
 bearing on a rather soft surface --- aluminum or plastic, for example. The=
 teeth of the washer can and do bite into the surfaces of soft materials an=
d offer reasonably positive protection against rotation. They are available=
 with either internal or external teeth, and also as coned washers for coun=
tersunk bolts.</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">=C2=A0</p=
><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">I try not to use lock wash=
ers. I use prevailing torque-type self-locking nuts on all through holes an=
d check or jam nuts to lock rod end bearings and threaded adjusters. With b=
lind holes, if I do not trust the thread portion of a properly tightened bo=
lt, I use the appropriate grade of Loctite and/or safety wire. I do, howeve=
r, carry a selection of aircraft spec (AN-935) spring lock washers [similar=
 to the one on the right of the image] around with me --- just in case. I w=
ill not use industrial [rather than aircraft-grade] spring lock washers bec=
ause they are liable to be too brittle for my taste.=E2=80=9D</p><p class=
=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoPlainText">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508=
512855127MsoPlainText">Dave MacKay</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127Mso=
PlainText">1960 TR3A (s/n 68639L)</p><p class=3D"m_-4639821508512855127MsoP=
lainText">Near Toronto, Canada</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div></=
div>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@au=
tox.team.net</a> **<br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
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.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</div></blockquote></div>

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** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Dave MacKay <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 21:02:15 -0500

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*>From:* Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
*>Subject:* Re: [TR] difference between these two washers

>(He did indeed work with Caroll Shelby, though.)

You=E2=80=99re absolutely right! And I even had the book in my mind. See =
=E2=80=9CSmith=E2=80=9D,
read =E2=80=9CSmith=E2=80=9D, write =E2=80=9CShelby=E2=80=9D. Ha Ha.

It=E2=80=99s a wonder I didn=E2=80=99t mis-attribute it to Carroll O=E2=80=
=99Connor =F0=9F=98=8A

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"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">=C2=A0</span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">=C2=A0</span></p><div =
style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0=
cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;From:</span></b><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"> Don Hiscock &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>&gt;Subject:</b> Re: [TR] difference b=
etween these two washers</span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;=C2=A0<=
/p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&gt;Ca=
rroll Smith, perhaps?=C2=A0 :)</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&gt;=C2=A0</span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&gt;(He did indeed work wit=
h Caroll Shelby, though.)</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">You=E2=80=99re absolutely right! And I even had the book i=
n my mind. See =E2=80=9CSmith=E2=80=9D, read =E2=80=9CSmith=E2=80=9D, write=
 =E2=80=9CShelby=E2=80=9D. Ha Ha.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">It=E2=80=99s a wonder I didn=E2=80=99t mis-attribute it t=
o Carroll O=E2=80=99Connor <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&=
quot;,sans-serif">=F0=9F=98=8A</span></p></div></div></div></body></html>

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