Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 14, Issue 219

From: Robert Childrez <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 18:11:04 +0000 (UTC)

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On Wednesday, October 6, 2021, 2:06 PM, [email-masked] <tr=
[email-masked]> wrote:

Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 1. TR4A - Head Gasket Blown Sanity Check (Guy Huggins)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 09:42:12 -0500
From: Guy Huggins <[email-masked]>
To: Triumph Mailing List <[email-masked]>
Subject: [TR] TR4A - Head Gasket Blown Sanity Check

Greetings from Texas,

So there I was? about to take an evening drive, and the car wouldn't start.
I have been having some issues with this recently (suspect I have a parasit=
ic drain), so I rolled-started the car down the driveway.=C2=A0 I remember =
it being a hard start, but the engine came to life.

As I drove down the street, the car was running very, very roughly.=C2=A0 W=
hen I turned onto the main road, I immediately pulled into a parking lot to=
 check it out.=C2=A0 Then I saw it? clouds of steam coming from the tailpip=
es.=C2=A0 Dammit!!

I got back in the car and was in my garage in less than a minute.=C2=A0 Sus=
pecting a catastrophic issue of coolant pouring into a cylinder, I dutifull=
y pulled the plugs to perform a compression check with the engine still war=
m.=C2=A0 #3 plug was soaking wet.=C2=A0 All compressions looked good and he=
ld for over a minute, save #3, which was reading at 72 ?ish.=C2=A0 Found th=
e problem cylinder.

I recently pulled the head off, and sure enough, the gasket had been ?pushe=
d? into the water jacket space between #3 and #2.=C2=A0 A closer inspection=
 revealed that none of the ?fire rings? of the gasket were ever perfectly a=
ligned over each cylinder, leading me to believe that maybe I did not get a=
n appropriately sized 87mm gasket, or the torque-down didn?t go perfectly, =
maybe somehow skewing the gasket in the process.

The good news is that I got almost 10 years and 22K miles before this happe=
ned!!
I?m a little disappointed seeing how when I rebuilt the engine about 12 yea=
rs ago, I had the block and the head mating surface machined to be flat.

Now to the sanity check items?

Fo8 Gaskets - I have refilled the water jacket, and it remained at the same=
 level overnight. I assume they are still 100% sealed.=C2=A0 Is this a safe=
 assumption?=C2=A0 Also, #2 liner is prouder of the block than the others (=
by feel), but I haven?t measured by how much yet.

Pistons & Liners - I poured 1/2 cup of fluid onto the top of each piston an=
d it remained there for an hour until I removed it.=C2=A0 #2 did drain out =
more than the others, so I know it is not perfect, but none of them are com=
pletely fluid tight.=C2=A0 This tells me the pistons and rings are OK, conf=
irming the last compression check numbers.=C2=A0 Is this reasonable?=C2=A0=
=20
Also, what is the best why to clean carbon from the pistons?

Head - I am planning on cleaning it up and checking for it to be flat with =
a straight edge.=C2=A0 Is there anything I can do to check the valves while=
 I have it off?=C2=A0 Again, the compression check suggests they are fine.=
=C2=A0=20
Is there a safe way to clean off carbon deposits from the valves themselves=
?

Pushrods - If they are straight, I plan to reuse them

Replacing - I plan on replacing all gaskets and head studs.=C2=A0 I could u=
se recommendations on the best 87mm head gasket out there.=C2=A0 The one th=
at blew was a copper Payen gasket.=C2=A0 I also installed it with some copp=
er gasket sealant (spray on), which I wonder about, as there are clear impr=
ints and residue on the mating surfaces that I somehow have to clean withou=
t harming the surfaces. Any suggestions for this?

My working theory is that some serious detonation occurred in #3 on the rol=
l start, and the gasket gave way to the weaker side, into the water jacket =
space.=C2=A0 Compression has historically been in the 160?s for each cylind=
er, 180?s when freshly rebuilt.=C2=A0 I can?t help but wonder if this is ju=
st too damn high, and the gasket?s fire rings are all out-of-round because =
of this, as opposed to my earlier thought about them being distorted due to=
 the head being torqued down.

I have pictures to share if anyone would like to see them.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and comments you share.

Cheers,

Guy D. Huggins
1965 Triumph TR4A
CTC 63569LO

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<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
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<br><br><br><a href=3D"https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather=
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ss=3D"yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: #715FFA; padding=
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[email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</p><=
blockquote class=3D"iosymail"><div dir=3D"ltr">Send Triumphs mailing list s=
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mphs</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">or, via email, send a message with subje=
ct or body 'help' to<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a ymailt=
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at<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a ymailto=3D"mailto:triump=
[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triu=
[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specifi=
c<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."<br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
Today's Topics:<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;=
  1. TR4A - Head Gasket Blown Sanity Check (Guy Huggins)<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">------------=
----------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 1<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">D=
ate: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 09:42:12 -0500<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: Guy Hug=
gins &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:guy.hu=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
To: Triumph Mailing List &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] TR4A - Head Gasket Blown Sanity Check<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:94D0C3B4-D5B=
[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:94D0C3B4-D5B6-46AF-8B20=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8=
"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Greetings from Texas=
,<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">So there I was? abou=
t to take an evening drive, and the car wouldn't start.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">I have been having some issues with this recently (suspect I have =
a parasitic drain), so I rolled-started the car down the driveway.&nbsp; I =
remember it being a hard start, but the engine came to life.<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">As I drove down the street, the car =
was running very, very roughly.&nbsp; When I turned onto the main road, I i=
mmediately pulled into a parking lot to check it out.&nbsp; Then I saw it? =
clouds of steam coming from the tailpipes.&nbsp; Dammit!!<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I got back in the car and was in my gar=
age in less than a minute.&nbsp; Suspecting a catastrophic issue of coolant=
 pouring into a cylinder, I dutifully pulled the plugs to perform a compres=
sion check with the engine still warm.&nbsp; #3 plug was soaking wet.&nbsp;=
 All compressions looked good and held for over a minute, save #3, which wa=
s reading at 72 ?ish.&nbsp; Found the problem cylinder.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I recently pulled the head off, and sur=
e enough, the gasket had been ?pushed? into the water jacket space between =
#3 and #2.&nbsp; A closer inspection revealed that none of the ?fire rings?=
 of the gasket were ever perfectly aligned over each cylinder, leading me t=
o believe that maybe I did not get an appropriately sized 87mm gasket, or t=
he torque-down didn?t go perfectly, maybe somehow skewing the gasket in the=
 process.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The good new=
s is that I got almost 10 years and 22K miles before this happened!!<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">I?m a little disappointed seeing how when I rebuilt the=
 engine about 12 years ago, I had the block and the head mating surface mac=
hined to be flat.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Now =
to the sanity check items?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Fo8 Gaskets - I have refilled the water jacket, and it remained at the=
 same level overnight. I assume they are still 100% sealed.&nbsp; Is this a=
 safe assumption?&nbsp; Also, #2 liner is prouder of the block than the oth=
ers (by feel), but I haven?t measured by how much yet.<br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Pistons &amp; Liners - I poured 1/2 cup of=
 fluid onto the top of each piston and it remained there for an hour until =
I removed it.&nbsp; #2 did drain out more than the others, so I know it is =
not perfect, but none of them are completely fluid tight.&nbsp; This tells =
me the pistons and rings are OK, confirming the last compression check numb=
ers.&nbsp; Is this reasonable?&nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Also, what =
is the best why to clean carbon from the pistons?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Head - I am planning on cleaning it up and chec=
king for it to be flat with a straight edge.&nbsp; Is there anything I can =
do to check the valves while I have it off?&nbsp; Again, the compression ch=
eck suggests they are fine.&nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Is there a saf=
e way to clean off carbon deposits from the valves themselves?<br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Pushrods - If they are straight, I=
 plan to reuse them<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Re=
placing - I plan on replacing all gaskets and head studs.&nbsp; I could use=
 recommendations on the best 87mm head gasket out there.&nbsp; The one that=
 blew was a copper Payen gasket.&nbsp; I also installed it with some copper=
 gasket sealant (spray on), which I wonder about, as there are clear imprin=
ts and residue on the mating surfaces that I somehow have to clean without =
harming the surfaces. Any suggestions for this?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">My working theory is that some serious detonation=
 occurred in #3 on the roll start, and the gasket gave way to the weaker si=
de, into the water jacket space.&nbsp; Compression has historically been in=
 the 160?s for each cylinder, 180?s when freshly rebuilt.&nbsp; I can?t hel=
p but wonder if this is just too damn high, and the gasket?s fire rings are=
 all out-of-round because of this, as opposed to my earlier thought about t=
hem being distorted due to the head being torqued down.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I have pictures to share if anyone woul=
d like to see them.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Th=
anks in advance for any thoughts and comments you share.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">Cheers,<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>Guy D. Huggins<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">1965 Triumph TR4A<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">CTC 63569LO<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
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r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">______________________=
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<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2=
19<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">*****************************************<br><=
/div><blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
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