Subject: Re: [TR] Converting from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A

From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 18:46:28 -0500

Open each bleeder separately, pump out all you can then bleed each wheel till you see purple.   Some might disconnect at the MC and blow it out with air.   
Bill

Last night I saw upon the stair,
A little man who wasn't there,
He wasn't there again today
Oh, how I wish he'd go away.... Mearns

On Aug 20, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Dave Connitt <[email-masked]> wrote:

Hi All,
What is the preferred way to convert from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A. The clutch is going to be easy as the leaking master cylinder and slave are being replaced and the short hard and soft line will be fairly easy to flush. I need suggestions regarding the brakes.
Thanks,
Dave Connitt 

Sent from my iPhone
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From: William Pugh <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 18:01:35 -0700

why in Earth would you…or any one want to do that?   Ego, perhaps?

> On Aug 20, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Dave Connitt <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: CAROLINE MCGAHEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 21:12:44 -0400

LOL
I wasn’t going to say anything, but converting from DOT3 to DOT5 is a terrible thing to do - I converted 2 cars - I’ve gone back on both of them and will never do that again. DOT 5 WILL leak - I’ve discovered leaks, when changing brake pads, before I otherwise knew I had them. Maybe it’s because water settles to low points in a DOT 5 system.
DOT 3 is better and will never leak if you completely change the fluid every 24 months - - more frequently if you don’t drive the car much.
This is my experience over the last 4+ decades with many Triumphs and I’m not interested in arguing with the many of you that will have different opinions - which is why I initially wasn’t going to say anything.

Cheers,
Jack Mc

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 20, 2021, at 9:02 PM, William Pugh <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From: "dave" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 22:52:02 -0500

There are many misconceptions, and downright incorrect opinions on this.

First of all, DOT 3/4 is hygroscopic (please note that hydroscopic is
totally incorrect; it refers to a hydroscope, something used to looking at
things underwater).  

Which means it absorbs water.  Which means it must be flushed on a regular
basis.

The only reason to use DOT 3/4 is if you are racing (DOT 5 has a much lower
boiling point) or if you have anti lock brakes.  That's it.  Or, you really
like bleeding your brake and clutch systems.

If you do the research, and look at FACTS, not opinions, old wives
(mechanics) tales, and general misinformation, DOT 5 is superior because it
doesn't eat paint and doesn't absorb water so its much less maintenance.

Those that claim DOT 5 will "trap" water and cause rust are misinformed.  IF
you do the research, which I have done extensively, you will learn that
because bleeding removes all moisture from the system, DOT 5 systems are far
LESS likely to rust than DOT 3/4.

DOT 5 does not eat paint when you spill it or when the hydraulics fail.

People who claim that DOT 5 is bad for rubber and seals are again,
misinformed and incorrect.

If your system failed after installing DOT 5, one of two things happened.
It was about to fail, or you did not flush the system.  DOT 3/4 when mixed
with DOT 5 creates sludge, a very bad thing in the brake system.  You need
to at minimum blow out the system if not flush with alcohol.  To the lister
who claimed his brake system leaked "because of DOT 5" that is impossible.
DOT 5 is silicone, which is actually good for rubber and seals.  If you
experienced failure after switching to DOT 5 the system was about to go
anyway or you did not adequately flush the system or it was user error.  NOT
DOT 5.  

Please, folks, do the research.  Don't rely on hearsay or "old mechanics
tales."  I have extensively researched this issue because there is SO MUCH
misinformation out there.

On a personal note I have converted numerous cars to DOT 5 with nary a
problem.

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 07:35:21 -0400

Do we really need snippy posts like this? Everyone is entitled to an opinion without having to endure this.

Andrew Uprichard
Jackson, Michigan

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of William Pugh
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 9:02 PM
To: Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Converting from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: "dave" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 09:12:00 -0500

I am sure William Pugh wants everyone to know that he relies on rumor and old mechanics tales for his information.  He never actually researches or relies on facts.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 6:35 AM
To: 'William Pugh' <[email-masked]>; 'Dave Connitt' <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Triumphs' <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Converting from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A

Andrew Uprichard
Jackson, Michigan

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of William Pugh
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 9:02 PM
To: Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Converting from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: "Notakitcar" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 09:16:37 -0500

Not a racer, not a daily driver, I use DOT 5 simply to save my paint, has never failed to stop my car when I step on the pedal.
Have a great weekend,
Bill B
TS30800L

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 6:35 AM
To: 'William Pugh' <[email-masked]>; 'Dave Connitt' <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Triumphs' <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Converting from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A

Andrew Uprichard
Jackson, Michigan

---

From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 09:20:06 -0500

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Doesn't everyone like DOT3 paintwork damage?  Grrr...  DOT5 on the way here=
.

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:02 PM William Pugh <[email-masked]> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> why in Earth would you=E2=80=A6or any one want to do that?   Ego, perhaps=
?
> > What is the preferred way to convert from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid
> in my TR4A. The clutch is going to be easy as the leaking master cylinder
> and slave are being replaced and the short hard and soft line will be
> fairly easy to flush. I need suggestions regarding the brakes.
> > Thanks,
> > Dave Connitt
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Doe=
sn&#39;t everyone like DOT3 paintwork damage?=C2=A0 Grrr...=C2=A0 DOT5 on t=
he way here.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><i=
mg src=3D"https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8Vv8bR8/0/44b5e5e7/X5/i-8Vv8b=
R8-X5.jpg" width=3D"562" height=3D"375"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:02 PM Wil=
liam Pugh &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
why in Earth would you=E2=80=A6or any one want to do that?=C2=A0 =C2=A0Ego,=
 perhaps?<br>
<br>
&gt; On Aug 20, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Dave Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dconni=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi All,<br>
&gt; What is the preferred way to convert from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid=
 in my TR4A. The clutch is going to be easy as the leaking master cylinder =
and slave are being replaced and the short hard and soft line will be fairl=
y easy to flush. I need suggestions regarding the brakes.<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Dave Connitt <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Sent from my iPhone<br>
&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triump=
[email-masked]</a> **<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>=C2=A0=
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k">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:58:40 -0400

Amen.

Keith Stewart

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] <[email-masked]> 
Sent: August 21, 2021 7:35 AM
To: 'William Pugh' <[email-masked]>; 'Dave Connitt' <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Triumphs' <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Converting from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A

Andrew Uprichard
Jackson, Michigan

---

From: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:41:18 -0500

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I started using DOT 5 about twenty years ago.  I have been driving British
cars for over 40 years, the first twenty were filled with frequent
hydraulic rebuilds and hardware replacement, seems like something would go
on a car every year or two when I was running DOT 3.

Until recently my experience with DOT5 was very good.  Then my brake master
cylinder went out a couple years ago, when I inspected it there was visible
corrosion on the bottom of the bore (installed new about 9 years prior, car
has led a sheltered life since).  I have pictures of it somewhere, but too
lazy to dig up now.

My conclusion was water got in the system, pooled at the bottom of the
bore, and led to a leak.

So my experience with DOT5 is mixed, I still think I have fewer leaks with
it, and when it does leak it doesn't eat paint.   After replacing the
various hydraulic bits I am still running DOT 5, but I don't trust the
school of thought that you don't need to flush or flush the fluid as often.

I have not noticed any more difficulty in bleeding or mushy pedal.

I know this is always a hot topic, and my conclusions are by no means based
on any scientific study, but I am comfortable enough with them to share
with the group with no reservations.

Greg Lemon, TR250

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:59 PM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of William Pug=
h
?
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I started using DOT 5 about twenty years ago.=C2=A0 I hav=
e been driving British cars for over 40 years, the first twenty were filled=
 with frequent hydraulic rebuilds and hardware replacement, seems like some=
thing would go on a car every year or two when I was running DOT 3.<div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Until recently my experience with DOT=
5 was very good.=C2=A0 Then my brake master cylinder went out a couple year=
s ago, when I inspected it there was visible corrosion on the bottom of the=
 bore (installed new about 9 years prior, car has led a sheltered life sinc=
e).=C2=A0 I have pictures of it somewhere, but too lazy to dig up now.</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">My conclusion was water got =
in the system, pooled at the bottom of the bore, and led to a leak.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So my experience with DOT5 is m=
ixed, I still think I have fewer leaks with it, and when it does leak it do=
esn&#39;t eat paint.=C2=A0 =C2=A0After replacing the various hydraulic bits=
 I am still running DOT 5, but I don&#39;t trust the school of thought that=
 you don&#39;t need to flush or flush the fluid as often.</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I have not noticed any more difficulty in=
 bleeding or mushy pedal.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">I know this is always a hot topic, and my conclusions are by no means bas=
ed on any scientific study, but I am comfortable enough with them to share =
with the group with no reservations.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Greg Lemon, TR250</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:59 PM  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kei=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">keithstewart@bell.=
net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Amen.<br>
<br>
Keith Stewart<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">au=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: August 21, 2021 7:35 AM<br>
To: &#39;William Pugh&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;;=
 &#39;Dave Connitt&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &#39;Triumphs&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Converting from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A<b=
r>
<br>
Do we really need snippy posts like this? Everyone is entitled to an opinio=
n without having to endure this.<br>
<br>
Andrew Uprichard<br>
Jackson, Michigan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt; On Behalf Of William Pugh<br>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 9:02 PM<br>
To: Dave Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer=
 noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferr=
er noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Converting from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid in my TR4A<b=
r>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
why in Earth would you=E2=80=A6or any one want to do that?=C2=A0 =C2=A0Ego,=
 perhaps?<br>
<br>
&gt; On Aug 20, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Dave Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dconni=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">dconnitt@fuse.=
net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi All,<br>
&gt; What is the preferred way to convert from DOT3 to DOT5 hydraulic fluid=
 in my TR4A. The clutch is going to be easy as the leaking master cylinder =
and slave are being replaced and the short hard and soft line will be fairl=
y easy to flush. I need suggestions regarding the brakes.<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Dave Connitt <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Sent from my iPhone<br>
&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer =
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